What is it about yourself that makes you believe that you're saved?

[MoreCoffee]

Given that we all read the same new testament and that we all build our perceptions about salvation from what it says and what we've been taught what exactly about yourself makes you believe that you are saved? I am not asking what promises are made in the scriptures, every Christians has access to the same promise texts and I am not asking if you believe the gospel because all of us do but what exactly distinguishes you from some other person who says he/she believes or used to believe but who you do not think is really 'saved'?

I am thinking of my atheist friend who used to be an enthusiastic Presbyterian evangelical and who testifies that he really did believe the gospel though he no longer does. Some say he never really was a Christian and hence was never saved because their theology teaches them that once a person is saved they will always be saved and slipping into atheism (as he did) makes them think he never was "one of us" and that's why "he went out from among us" ...

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

I've always wondered about the "never really was one of us" thing. Certain passages can be made to fit our church culture so nicely, and I believe that's one example. But back to the OP, for me, it's the centrality of Christ. I'll be the first to admit that I don't spend my day in prayer, attending "men's groups", going to the local functions, and speaking acceptable Christian language. Heck, I even watch "R" rated movies. But Christ is the compass that guides me, brings me back on course, brings me to repentance and correction. Anyone can have a moral compass to go by, and some are quite strong - but as long as the central compass of my life is Christ, then I have some level of assurance. As for the next person, it is a matter of faith and between them and their God.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I've always wondered about the "never really was one of us" thing. Certain passages can be made to fit our church culture so nicely, and I believe that's one example. But back to the OP, for me, it's the centrality of Christ. I'll be the first to admit that I don't spend my day in prayer, attending "men's groups", going to the local functions, and speaking acceptable Christian language. Heck, I even watch "R" rated movies. But Christ is the compass that guides me, brings me back on course, brings me to repentance and correction. Anyone can have a moral compass to go by, and some are quite strong - but as long as the central compass of my life is Christ, then I have some level of assurance. As for the next person, it is a matter of faith and between them and their God.

Yes, it fascinates me in a macabre sort of way .... like watching war films and an occasional sci-fi film ... you do it but you know it is quite gory (for the war films) or utterly absurd (for the sci-fi films). I kind of think that pretending that one KNOWS if other people are saved or not and if you yourself are saved or not verges on the macabre (for knowing other's eternal fate) to the utterly absurd (for knowing one's own eternal fate) unless one has received a bona fide revelation from heaven about it. I know a lot of folk read a verse or verses here and say "see that promise means that I am saved" but since the promise doesn't say "You, Mr MoreCoffee, will receive the salvation that the Lord Jesus Christ promises to all who partake of his eternal life" I don't count myself as having received such a bona fide personal revelation in holy scripture verses.

 

[Josiah]

God said so.

 

[MoreCoffee]

God said so.

Where does God say "Josiah, you are saved"? If you have chapter & verse that would be interesting.

 

[Josiah]

Where does God say "Josiah, you are saved"? If you have chapter & verse that would be interesting.

MANY, MANY places: "Believe in the Lord Jesus and you are saved." "He who believes and is baptized is saved." I believe. I'm saved. Ain't rocket science.


Those who beleive that SELF is the Savior must ergo look in the mirror. For the FEW (oh, so very few) HONEST people doing so, it scares the _____ out of them and makes them insecure. It should! The problem, however, is not with being unable to know if we are saved, their problem is they are looking in the wrong place for it. If they would just take their eyes off the mirror and place it on the Cross.... if they would just trust Christ rather than self.

I didn't realize that Jesus is the Savior when I was Catholic, so I beleived that NO ONE could EVER know if they were saved. But when I started going to the Lutheran church, and learned that JESUS is the Savior, what an epiphany!!!! What a glorious, wonderful, ETERNITY changing revelation! Now I know..... LOOKING TO CHRIST in stead of me: I'm saved. If I were to die this moment, I know I'm going to heaven because Jesus is the Savior, the Cross and Tomb are the reasons. As for me, I'm a poor measurable sinner who deserves NOTHING but hell - so I'm no longer trusting in me. What a difference!



Pax (because of JESUS)




- Josiah

 

[MoreCoffee]

MANY, MANY places: "Believe in the Lord Jesus and you are saved." "He who believes and is baptized is saved." I believe. I'm saved. Ain't rocket science. ...

I don't see you specifically mentioned in those passages. I agree that you interpret them so that you are accounted as one amongst the faithful but that is an interpretation made by a fallible human being is it not?

 

[Josiah]

I don't see you specifically mentioned in those passages.

You are looking for the precise legal names of EVERYONE - past, present and future - who is or will be saved? Come on, that's just silly - and you know it.


.

 

[MoreCoffee]

You are looking for the precise legal names of EVERYONE - past, present and future - who is or will be saved? Come on, that's just silly - and you know it.

I know it isn't in the bible, it would be the only way to make the promises in scripture indisputably applicable to each individual who interprets the general statements as applying specifically to them. Interpretation of a verse is a far cry from "God said it". It is much more a case of "I interpret the promises of God as applying to me", right?

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

...but what exactly distinguishes you from some other person who says he/she believes or used to believe but who you do not think is really 'saved'?

God said so.

Want to try again Josiah?

 

[Hammster]

Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. - Romans 5:1

 

[MoreCoffee]

Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. - Romans 5:1

How do you interpret that verse? Do you interpret it as applying to you?

 

[Hammster]

How do you interpret that verse? Do you interpret it as applying to you?

Yes, in context. I didn't feel like posting the whole section.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Yes, in context. I didn't feel like posting the whole section.

Is your interpretation infallibly true?

 

[Hammster]

Is your interpretation infallibly true?

"Did God really say?"

Satan and MoreCoffee.


Stop trying to get people to doubt. It's evil and sinful.

 

[MoreCoffee]

"Did God really say?"

Satan and MoreCoffee.


Stop trying to get people to doubt. It's evil and sinful.

God really did say what's in the verse but he didn't say what you interpret it to mean; specifically God did not name you or address the remarks specifically to you what happened is that you read the verse and said "Oh that applies to me".

So is your interpretation infallible?

 

[Hammster]

God really did say what's in the verse but he didn't say what you interpret it to mean; specifically God did not name you or address the remarks specifically to you what happened is that you read the verse and said "Oh that applies to me".

So is your interpretation infallible?

So what does it mean? Don't leave me hanging.

 

[Josiah]

I know it isn't in the bible, it would be the only way to make the promises in scripture indisputably applicable to each individual who interprets the general statements as applying specifically to them. Interpretation of a verse is a far cry from "God said it". It is much more a case of "I interpret the promises of God as applying to me", right?

What interpretation?

It says "believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved."

I do. I am.



Now, if it says "James Hurbert Culver, Sr. born in Tulsa Oklahoma in 1938 is saved" it would be "interpretation" perhaps to insists it ALSO means me.... But I'm not debating the meaning of any of the words.

Now, I guess YOU could say, "I don't know if Josiah are LYING and so I personally don't KNOW if you beleive in Christ!" Well, you don't - so it MIGHT be that YOU don't know if OTHERS are saved, but I suspect YOU have a fairly good handle on whether YOU are lying about this.

But I feel very confident that the Catholic horror comes NOT from some point of "I'm actually lying to myself about who or what I'm trusting", I think it comes from Catholics doing what they are told to do: Look at self in the mirror, trust in self, lean on self (even if empowered by God). Those Catholics who are HONEST as they look at self are TERRIFIED (as they should be !) and thus must say, "I don't know if I'm going to succeed in saving myself!!!!" The problem, however, is not in the issue you raise - if we can be sure, the problem likes in looking to the wrong Savior. The one Catholics look to (self) IS - certainly - going to fail. It's why I was unsure in my Catholic days, too. When I learned that Jesus is the Savior, what an enormous, wonderful epiphany!!!!!!!



- Josiah

 

[MoreCoffee]

So what does it mean? Don't leave me hanging.

It means what it says; but I think you really want me to give you an interpretation that deals with how it applies to you or me or others living today. If I did I'd have no fear about admitting that whatever interpretation I give is fallible. Can you admit to fallibility in your application of the passage to you or is that a bridge too far for you to cross?

 

[Hammster]

It means what it says; but I think you really want me to give you an interpretation that deals with how it applies to you or me or others living today. If I did I'd have no fear about admitting that whatever interpretation I give is fallible. Can you admit to fallibility in your application of the passage to you or is that a bridge too far for you to cross?

What could be fallible about my interpretation?