What is it about yourself that makes you believe that you're saved?

[MoreCoffee]

What could be fallible about my interpretation?

What can be fallible about your interpretation is your assessment of your own belief.

From my perspective? I have no idea if you do or do not believe the gospel I have only your word for it and even though I am willing to believe you when you say that you believe I could not swear in a court of law that I KNOW you believe.

In the case of my atheist friend who used to be a Presbyterian evangelical I can say with much greater conviction that I believe he really did believe the gospel back when he was active as a Christian but I still could not swear that I know he believed.

In my own case I can swear in a court that I am confident that I believe the gospel but I cannot swear that I know God knows I truly believe because my own belief may be the kind that would disappear under persecution. I have never been persecuted. And I would not say that the annoying opposition that I get from various people is persecution.

 

[Lamb]

We are all saved in the same way...by grace through faith. What makes me believe it? God has given me faith (by grace through faith) in order to believe it. It's a connection to the cross where forgiveness was won, it's a connection to the promise made in Genesis that God would provide a Savior (and did) and it's a connection to my baptism where God washed away my sins and gave me the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Hammster]

What can be fallible about your interpretation is your assessment of your own belief.

From my perspective? I have no idea if you do or do not believe the gospel I have only your word for it and even though I am willing to believe you when you say that you believe I could not swear in a court of law that I KNOW you believe.

In the case of my atheist friend who used to be a Presbyterian evangelical I can say with much greater conviction that I believe he really did believe the gospel back when he was active as a Christians but I still could not swear that I know he believed.

In my own case I can swear in a court that I am confident that I believe the gospel but I cannot swear that I know God knows I truly believe because my own belief may be the kind that would disappear under persecution. I have never been persecuted. And I would not say that the annoying opposition that I get from various people is persecution.

The OP said nothing about how do you know I'm saved.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

What could be fallible about my interpretation?

Really...?

 

[Hammster]

Really...?

Yes, really. Maybe you can answer.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Given that we all read the same new testament and that we all build our perceptions about salvation from what it says and what we've been taught what exactly about yourself makes you believe that you are saved? I am not asking what promises are made in the scriptures, every Christians has access to the same promise texts and I am not asking if you believe the gospel because all of us do but what exactly distinguishes you from some other person who says he/she believes or used to believe but who you do not think is really 'saved'?

I am thinking of my atheist friend who used to be an enthusiastic Presbyterian evangelical and who testifies that he really did believe the gospel though he no longer does. Some say he never really was a Christian and hence was never saved because their theology teaches them that once a person is saved they will always be saved and slipping into atheism (as he did) makes them think he never was "one of us" and that's why "he went out from among us" ...

The OP said nothing about how do you know I'm saved.

The first post did say something about how a person (you're a person) comes to believe that they are saved and others are not.

 

[Hammster]

The first post did say something about how a person (you're a person) comes to believe that they are saved and others are not.

You should read your OP again. It wasn't generalized.

And I addressed it. I told you how I knew I was saved. Then you tried to get me to doubt that.

Shameful.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Given that we all read the same new testament and that we all build our perceptions about salvation from what it says and what we've been taught what exactly about yourself makes you believe that you are saved? I am not asking what promises are made in the scriptures, every Christians has access to the same promise texts and I am not asking if you believe the gospel because all of us do but what exactly distinguishes you from some other person who says he/she believes or used to believe but who you do not think is really 'saved'?

I am thinking of my atheist friend who used to be an enthusiastic Presbyterian evangelical and who testifies that he really did believe the gospel though he no longer does. Some say he never really was a Christian and hence was never saved because their theology teaches them that once a person is saved they will always be saved and slipping into atheism (as he did) makes them think he never was "one of us" and that's why "he went out from among us" ...

You should read your OP again. It wasn't generalized.

Yes, just like the verses in the bible upon which you base your claims.

 

[charis en excelcis]

What makes me sure I am saved:
Subjectively, the Holy Spirit in me.
Objectively: the Word of God.

 

[psalms 91]

What makes me sure I am saved:
Subjectively, the Holy Spirit in me.
Objectively: the Word of God.

Exactly

 

[MoreCoffee]

What makes me sure I am saved:
Subjectively, the Holy Spirit in me.
Objectively: the Word of God.

Exactly

Those are good subjective reasons for one's feeling of assurance of salvation but they are not objective. Holy scripture's general statements in the form of promises and reassurances given to the faithful are truly encouraging and intended to be taken to heart by the faithful and the warnings and threats are intended to be taken to heart by the faithful too. Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? (2 Corinthians 13:5) The last judgement will separate the faithful who lived as the Lord called them to live from those who did not even if they protest that they believed. When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. (Matthew 25:31-33) The promise of God's rest is for those who faithfully strive to enter it. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. (Hebrews 4:11) And we ought to be humble in our opinions about our own standing. Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. (1 Corinthians 10:12) Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you. (1 Peter 5:6-7) It is not impossible to be sure of one's salvation but it is not as smooth and easy as some say. Wherefore putting away all filthiness and overflowing of wickedness, receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls. But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deluding your own selves. For if any one is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a mirror: for he beholdeth himself, and goeth away, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. (James 1:21-24)

 

[charis en excelcis]

I know it isn't in the bible, it would be the only way to make the promises in scripture indisputably applicable to each individual who interprets the general statements as applying specifically to them. Interpretation of a verse is a far cry from "God said it". It is much more a case of "I interpret the promises of God as applying to me", right?

So, here is the loop that you are trapped in: You want to know what makes you more sure of my salvation than those who have "fallen away", but you must do so without specifically applying the promises of the Word of God, nor trusting in your relational experience with God. I would advise you to go see your priest and he will provide you with the assurance that you need: "go in peace, your sins are forgiven."

 

[MoreCoffee]

So, here is the loop that you are trapped in: You want to know what makes you more sure of my salvation than those who have "fallen away", but you must do so without specifically applying the promises of the Word of God, nor trusting in your relational experience with God. I would advise you to go see your priest and he will provide you with the assurance that you need: "go in peace, your sins are forgiven."

For the purposes of this discussion I do not care one way or the other about your salvation or your claims thereto. The discussion is intended to be about what basis one has for making a claim of personal salvation and to see if that basis stands up under scrutiny.

 

[charis en excelcis]

For the purposes of this discussion I do not care one way of the other about your salvation or your claims thereto. The discussion is intended to be about what basis one has for making a claim of personal salvation and to see if that basis stands up under scrutiny.

My concern for you was based upon your original posts. I know that you trust in the authority of your church, so I advised you to seek out assurance from that authority. You obviously do care about why I am assured of my salvation or you would not place it under such scrutiny. Whether for you friend or not. You will find that our Lord give to each of us assurance in a manner which we can receive. But we must receive it.

 

[MoreCoffee]

My concern for you was based upon your original posts. I know that you trust in the authority of your church, so I advised you to seek out assurance from that authority. You obviously do care about why I am assured of my salvation or you would not place it under such scrutiny. Whether for you friend or not. You will find that our Lord give to each of us assurance in a manner which we can receive. But we must receive it.

This thread is a topical discussion not a place for psychoanalysis nor a place attempts at counselling based on misapprehensions of one's interlocutor's state of grace.

 

[charis en excelcis]

This thread is a topical discussion not a place for psychoanalysis nor a place attempts at counselling based on misapprehensions of one's interlocutor's state of grace.

I was simply placing your basis of assurance under scrutiny.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I was simply placing your basis of assurance under scrutiny.

I do not recall stating a basis for assurance of salvation in regard to myself in this thread.

 

[charis en excelcis]

How can you put under scrutiny the faith of others without allowing yours to be scrutinized.

 

[MoreCoffee]

How can you put under scrutiny the faith of others without allowing yours to be scrutinized.

Nobody asked me is I had assurance or on what basis.

 

[charis en excelcis]

So, I am asking you to answer your own post.