Truth

[MennoSota]

.

 

[Andrew]

...thou wretched man you are

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[MennoSota]

Romans 7:14-15,18-19,24
[14]...The trouble is with me, for I am all too human, a slave to sin.
[15]I don’t really understand myself, for I want to do what is right, but I don’t do it. Instead, I do what I hate.
[18]And I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. I want to do what is right, but I can’t.
[19]I want to do what is good, but I don’t. I don’t want to do what is wrong, but I do it anyway.
[24]Oh, what a miserable person I am! Who will free me from this life that is dominated by sin and death?

Do you think Paul was lying or showing false humility?

 

[Andrew]

Romans 7:14-15,18-19,24
[14]...The trouble is with me, for I am all too human, a slave to sin.
[15]I don’t really understand myself, for I want to do what is right, but I don’t do it. Instead, I do what I hate.
[18]And I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. I want to do what is right, but I can’t.
[19]I want to do what is good, but I don’t. I don’t want to do what is wrong, but I do it anyway.
[24]Oh, what a miserable person I am! Who will free me from this life that is dominated by sin and death?

Do you think Paul was lying or showing false humility?

No he isn't lying, I believe that we are way worse than we actually believe we are. I don't care how saintly someone thinks they are or has become, we are in way over our heads steeped in sin.

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[MennoSota]

No he isn't lying, I believe that we are way worse than we actually believe we are. I don't care how saintly someone thinks they are or has become, we are in way over our heads steeped in sin.

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Indeed. People at work know I am a Christian. Every once in awhile they will jokingly tell me I'm going to hell. I agree and say, "but by the grace of God."
God's grace is the only thing that I can hope in. There are certainly others who practice righteous living much, much better than me...and they are wickedly corrupt. That doesn't leave much hope for me in the area of self-righteousness.

 

[MoreCoffee]

No he isn't lying, I believe that we are way worse than we actually believe we are. I don't care how saintly someone thinks they are or has become, we are in way over our heads steeped in sin.

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Oh goody! A pretend self flagellation thread. Cool :cool-relaxed:

 

[Lamb]

If we get into a mindset that we're actually doing okay in the way we live then we aren't looking into it deep enough and weaken the truth about sin.

 

[psalms 91]

Absolutely we all sin daily and those who say they dont are liars according to the word so we should never think more highly of ourselves than we really are. Yes, we become more Christlike as we progress in our walk (or at least we pray that we do)but we are still sinners saved by grace

 

[Andrew]

Oh goody! A pretend self flagellation thread. Cool :cool-relaxed:

Thou art a wretched man MC! Indeed self flagellation yet not self loathing

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[MennoSota]

LOL, this has nothing to do with self-flagellation...isn't that a Roman church thing...it has everything to do with our natural position before a holy God.

Oh goody! A pretend self flagellation thread. Cool :cool-relaxed:

 

[MennoSota]

I have seen the tendency for Christians to look down on non-Christians and judge them because they don't act in a prescribed manner. There is a pridefulness that imagines we have become, or are becoming, better than the unsaved I'm our virtue. That is a myth. I know many religious and non-religious people whose virtue is stellar in comparison with other humans. Yet, in comparison with God's revealed holiness we all are as filthy rags.

 

[Andrew]

I have seen the tendency for Christians to look down on non-Christians and judge them because they don't act in a prescribed manner. There is a pridefulness that imagines we have become, or are becoming, better than the unsaved I'm our virtue. That is a myth. I know many religious and non-religious people whose virtue is stellar in comparison with other humans. Yet, in comparison with God's revealed holiness we all are as filthy rags.

So.... there is nothing wrong with me whipping myself because im a naughty boy?
in all seriousness, my eyes were opened when I got saved, and I got a real glimpse at this world that was both a scary experience but none the less comforted by Gods love. I cried because I felt unworthy, for about a week, everything was off, every action and every thought was not clean not by a long shot, it was all self gratification. I couldnt watch tv because they were lying "actors", I couldnt read (except the bible) because it had a selfish agenda, music offended me in everyway even the Christian music because they were accepting money for it and the love of money is the root of all evil. I almost couldn't touch a coin or a dollar. At work I couldnt talk to anyone because there very walk was offensive, their clothes, their manner, i kept in constant prayer "forgive us Father" indeed we are very very wretched so much so that we naturally deny it, the Bible speaks truth and reminds us to seek salvation through Jesus Christ the truth the way and the life.
But my oh my, that unsettling experience that finally simmered down after a month -taught me not to judge another soul but to pray for our souls and accept Gods forgiveness and Grace via his Son.


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[MoreCoffee]

If we get into a mindset that we're actually doing okay in the way we live then we aren't looking into it deep enough and weaken the truth about sin.

Repentance from the heart that leads to life is much more than a mindset isn't it? To repent means to turn away from sins and towards God. It is asking to be forgiven because of sorrow over the sins that offend God and it is resolving to avoid sins in the future and to serve God now and in the future. Merely saying "I am a sinner, I am not worthy of praise" is not worth much. Words without actions such as turning away from sins and towards God in deeds as well as in attitude is what repentance is. Saint Paul calls it godly sorrow which he testifies leads to life and he knew that by experience because he both said "I am the worst of sinners" and he turned away from his sins and became God's servant in missions and in sufferings for the sake of the cross. Saint James reminds his readers that Abraham was justified by what he did when he obeyed God and so his deeds showed that his faith in God was not in words only but in deeds too and so he was made righteous by beliefs that were backed up by deeds. So it is with TRUTH; it is no use acknowledging the truth if it is disobeyed and opposed, even demons know the truth and they reject it opposing it with their deeds. So too with temptations, Satan tempted the Lord Jesus with quotations from the old testament but the Lord was aware of the falsehood in Satan's words despite them being quotes from holy scripture because the falsehood was in the intention and in the goal that was aimed at - namely to lead the Lord into sin - so it was that Satan spoke holy words for evil purposes. Satan made holy words that were intended to lead to life by converting the soul to lively obedience into words that were a snare to trap and kill. That is why it takes more than words to have faith that makes righteous and why repentance is more than words of sorrow or feelings of guilt.

 

[MennoSota]

The chosen children of God cannot live in rebellion without the Father's discipline (Hebrews 12). If a professing Christian is walking with no consciousness of sin, it may be that God has never extended saving grace to that person.
The sheep hear and listen to the Shepherd.
That being said, the only reason the sheep aren't goats is because of God's grace. There is nothing within you or me that causes God to consider us righteous.

Repentance from the heart that leads to life is much more than a mindset isn't it? To repent means to turn away from sins and towards God. It is asking to be forgiven because of sorrow over the sins that offend God and it is resolving to avoid sins in the future and to serve God now and in the future. Merely saying "I am a sinner, I am not worthy of praise" is not worth much. Words without actions such as turning away from sins and towards God in deeds as well as in attitude is what repentance is. Saint Paul calls it godly sorrow which he testifies leads to life and he knew that by experience because he both said "I am the worst of sinners" and he turned away from his sins and became God's servant in missions and in sufferings for the sake of the cross. Saint James reminds his readers that Abraham was justified by what he did when he obeyed God and so his deeds showed that his faith in God was not in words only but in deeds too and so he was made righteous by beliefs that were backed up by deeds. So it is with TRUTH; it is no use acknowledging the truth if it is disobeyed and opposed, even demons know the truth and they reject it opposing it with their deeds. So too with temptations, Satan tempted the Lord Jesus with quotations from the old testament but the Lord was aware of the falsehood in Satan's words despite them being quotes from holy scripture because the falsehood was in the intention and in the goal that was aimed at - namely to lead the Lord into sin - so it was that Satan spoke holy words for evil purposes. Satan and made holy words that were intended to lead to life by converting the soul to lively obedience into words that were a snare to trap and kill. That is why it takes more than words to have faith that makes righteous and why repentance is more than words of sorrow or feelings of guilt.

 

[hedrick]

Oh goody! A pretend self flagellation thread. Cool :cool-relaxed:

It's true, when I think of myself in front of the power that created the universe, it's kind of scary. But he loves us and Jesus died for us. That's what we should be thinking of. As Luther said, sin boldly.

 

[MennoSota]

Of course we look to Romans 8, "there is now therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."
This brings us around to another thread that asked what it means to be "in Christ Jesus."
Without being in Christ, we are no different than any condemned sinner.

It's true, when I think of myself in front of the power that created the universe, it's kind of scary. But he loves us and Jesus died for us. That's what we should be thinking of. As Luther said, sin boldly.

 

[Andrew]

Of course we look to Romans 8, "there is now therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."
This brings us around to another thread that asked what it means to be "in Christ Jesus."
Without being in Christ, we are no different than any condemned sinner.

Exactly, repent means to look/turn inwards hence 'in Christ' you are looking to Christ, the sin will inflict pain/remorse in you so naturally IMO a Christian should be able to "feel" wrong along side of just "knowing" wrong and won't be completely ignorant of its bad fruits. This convection will help mold you and may very well be evidence of grace working on you. Again my personal opinion.


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[Andrew]

#Truth

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[Arsenios]

Romans 7:14-15,18-19,24
[14]...The trouble is with me, for I am all too human, a slave to sin.
[15]I don’t really understand myself, for I want to do what is right, but I don’t do it. Instead, I do what I hate.
[18]And I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. I want to do what is right, but I can’t.
[19]I want to do what is good, but I don’t. I don’t want to do what is wrong, but I do it anyway.
[24]Oh, what a miserable person I am! Who will free me from this life that is dominated by sin and death?

Do you think Paul was lying or showing false humility?

He is speaking as one knowing the Law...
Even though he is not knowing the Law as he speaks...
Because he is speaking to those knowing the Law, remember?
He becomes AS one knowing the Law so as to save some knowing the Law...

1Cor 9:22
To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak:
I am made all things to all men,
that I might by all means
save some.

Remember?

Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

He is speaking as one knowing the Law...
Even though he is not knowing the Law as he speaks...

Huh?