Can babies be conscious of their baptism?

[Lamb]

Hmmm...does the Bible say "baptize with the intent to teach"?
Would it work if you mass baptize the community with the intent to send them an evangelical dvd about the basics of Christianity?

The bible says Matthew 28:19-20 New International Version (NIV)

19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

We do not baptize someone else's baby/child because that would usurp the authority of their mother and father and would not honor them.

 

[MennoSota]

The bible says Matthew 28:19-20 New International Version (NIV)

19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

We do not baptize someone else's baby/child because that would usurp the authority of their mother and father and would not honor them.

Before that it says "make disciples". Are newborn infants born as disciples? Is there a newborn disciples class at the hospital?

You seem to have added a whole bunch of clauses without any biblical support so that you have an action for one thing, but an inaction for another. Yet there is spurious biblical support for either.

 

[Lamb]

Before that it says "make disciples". Are newborn infants born as disciples? Is there a newborn disciples class at the hospital?

You seem to have added a whole bunch of clauses without any biblical support so that you have an action for one thing, but an inaction for another. Yet there is spurious biblical support for either.

Disciples are made "baptizing" and "teaching". Do you not know that the Gospel message is read prior to the infant being baptized? Is it not God's Word, more specifically hearing the Gospel that brings faith? I know you don't believe that in baptism God's Word is present with the water because you reject the verse I've given to you in regards to that. You also forget that John the Baptist had faith in his mother's womb...so even those unborn CAN have faith because of God's Word.

 

[MennoSota]

Disciples are made "baptizing" and "teaching". Do you not know that the Gospel message is read prior to the infant being baptized? Is it not God's Word, more specifically hearing the Gospel that brings faith? I know you don't believe that in baptism God's Word is present with the water because you reject the verse I've given to you in regards to that. You also forget that John the Baptist had faith in his mother's womb...so even those unborn CAN have faith because of God's Word.

Could you read the Bible while splashing at the local pool and baptize everyone as disciples despite everyone being oblivious to it? Would that count as accurately fulfilling the Great Commission?
You seem to keep adding layers that are not provided in scripture. These layers have to be added church traditions which no one can actually pin point as to an exact start date.
I understand I'm not going to change church dogma and tradition, but people have to be recognizing how spurious the actual scripture is for the tradition and dogma.

 

[Lamb]

Could you read the Bible while splashing at the local pool and baptize everyone as disciples despite everyone being oblivious to it? Would that count as accurately fulfilling the Great Commission?
You seem to keep adding layers that are not provided in scripture. These layers have to be added church traditions which no one can actually pin point as to an exact start date.
I understand I'm not going to change church dogma and tradition, but people have to be recognizing how spurious the actual scripture is for the tradition and dogma.

You keep coming up with scenarios that normal people would not do who understand how God works in baptism.

 

[Andrew]

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[Pedrito]

Me in Post #399:

(In case it wasn’t obvious, in Post #390 I was merely highlighting the internal inconsistency regarding baptism in general and baby baptism in particular, as presented by baby baptising adherents in relevant Posts.

Does baptism actually save? Yes it does. No it doesn’t.

That was all.)

Albion in Post #400:

This is getting stale.

Who said that it saves? And where was that said?

==============================================================================================

Well, to jog Albion’s memory just a little…

Josiah, from Post #52: "Baptism now saves you." There is that verse (although I know how some spin it 180 degrees)., to which we could add (for clarification), from the later Post #401 by Lämmchen: There is no difference between the benefits a baby receives compared to what an adult receives in baptism.

Lämmchen, frpm Post #237:
WHAT BLESSINGS DO WE RECEIVE FROM GOD IN BAPTISM?
1 Peter 3:20-21. … in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it a few people, eight in all, were saved through water — and this water symbolizes Baptism that now saves you also.

The following list of verses was then quoted:
Galatians 3:27; Eph. 5:26; Titus 3:5.; 1 Corinthians 12:13; 1 Corinthians 6:11.; Acts 22:16; Acts 2:37-39; Mark 16:16
followed by * Note: In these passages, the Word of God associates Baptism with dying and rising with Christ, being clothed with Christ, being cleansed and made holy by Christ, having sins washed away, receiving the Holy Spirit, being regenerated (reborn) and renewed, receiving the forgiveness of sins, and being saved.

==============================================================================================

And also, me, from Post #279: So I ask Albion (I ask you, Albion) to provide a precise and succinct explanation (like the quoted point 2 above) regarding what would happen to (the status of) a baptised 6 month old baby that happened to die. Then we could all have that same precise, unequivocal understanding.

Albion, from Post #280 in reply: They are saved.

==============================================================================================

So, when Albion asks of baptism, Who said that it saves? And where was that said?, one could well wonder what realms of honesty might he be transgressing.


And is that not in itself a clear example of the internal inconsistency and self-contradictory statements that unfortunately emanate from the baby baptising camp?

 

[Josiah]

IMO,

Some are fixated on what unregenerate, dead, enemies of God can and cannot do. Actually, the Bible answers that: NOTHING. A one week old baby can do NOTHING spiritual because they are spiritually DEAD, void of the Holy Spirit and they Bible says they cannot even chant the word "Jesus is Lord" with any meaning - CANNOT. Of course, a 40 year old man with an IQ of 210 and 5 Ph.D's who has memorized very word of the Bible can do NOTHING spiuritual because he is spiritually DEAD, void of the Holy Spirit, and the Bible says he cannot even chant the words "Jesus is Lord" with any meaning - CANNOT. So - accepting what the Bible says - they focus on what God can do.

 

[Albion]

Me in Post #399:


Albion in Post #400:


==============================================================================================

Well, to jog Albion’s memory just a little…

Josiah, from Post #52: "Baptism now saves you." There is that verse (although I know how some spin it 180 degrees)., to which we could add (for clarification), from the later Post #401 by Lämmchen: There is no difference between the benefits a baby receives compared to what an adult receives in baptism.

Lämmchen, frpm Post #237:
WHAT BLESSINGS DO WE RECEIVE FROM GOD IN BAPTISM?
1 Peter 3:20-21. … in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it a few people, eight in all, were saved through water — and this water symbolizes Baptism that now saves you also.

The following list of verses was then quoted:
Galatians 3:27; Eph. 5:26; Titus 3:5.; 1 Corinthians 12:13; 1 Corinthians 6:11.; Acts 22:16; Acts 2:37-39; Mark 16:16
followed by * Note: In these passages, the Word of God associates Baptism with dying and rising with Christ, being clothed with Christ, being cleansed and made holy by Christ, having sins washed away, receiving the Holy Spirit, being regenerated (reborn) and renewed, receiving the forgiveness of sins, and being saved.

==============================================================================================

And also, me, from Post #279: So I ask Albion (I ask you, Albion) to provide a precise and succinct explanation (like the quoted point 2 above) regarding what would happen to (the status of) a baptised 6 month old baby that happened to die. Then we could all have that same precise, unequivocal understanding.

Albion, from Post #280 in reply: They are saved.

==============================================================================================

So, when Albion asks of baptism, Who said that it saves? And where was that said?, one could well wonder what realms of honesty might he be transgressing.


And is that not in itself a clear example of the internal inconsistency and self-contradictory statements that unfortunately emanate from the baby baptising camp?

Probably you should just go ahead and ask him. And because we all know that you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, a few questions that are free of insults would most likely work the best for you. After all, it is YOU who is confused, not him.

 

[Pedrito]

Me in Post #399:
(In case it wasn’t obvious, in Post #390 I was merely highlighting the internal inconsistency regarding baptism in general and baby baptism in particular, as presented by baby baptising adherents in relevant Posts.

Does baptism actually save? Yes it does. No it doesn’t.

That was all.)

Albion in Post #400: Who said that it saves? And where was that said?

Yet Albion himself had stated in Post #280 (in reply to my question regarding the fate of a baby that dies after being baptised): They are saved.

==============================================================================================

I therefore said in Post #427: So, when Albion asks of baptism, Who said that it saves? And where was that said?, one could well wonder what realms of honesty might he be transgressing..

I thought that was quite a reasonable and logical response. It fitted the bill, as it were. The direct self-contradiction does raise an obvious question. Does it not?

The response in Post #429 was: Probably you should just go ahead and ask him. And because we all know that you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, a few questions that are free of insults would most likely work the best for you. After all, it is YOU who is confused, not him.

==============================================================================================

I think I’ll leave it to Readers to decide who is being rational and who is being emotional. (And who it is that gives the appearance of being confused.)


(And if I’m trying to catch flies, I normally use fly paper.)

 

[Lamb]

Pedrito, what we've said is that God saves and He can do so by His word through the waters that will bring faith to the infant and the gift of the Holy Spirit. This is what those who believe in infant baptism have been saying when they say Baptism saves. How does it save a grown man? It does what scripture says and I've given those verses of washing away sins and receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit. A baby and grown man will receive the same benefits from baptism and that is all God's work, not anything a man or baby can do except receive.

 

[Albion]

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[Albion]

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I think I’ll leave it to Readers to decide who is being rational and who is being emotional. (And who it is that gives the appearance of being confused.)[/color]

I'm not interested in playing games or in replying to taunts or insults posted about me, but I invited any question about infant baptism that might remain after all that has been offered already. None has been directed to me so far.