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Justification

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Arsenios

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“You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, ‘Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness’” (James*2:22–23).

False or distorted translations are why I go to a literal Greek translation...

Then if you disagree with my literal translation, we can do a word study where we disagree...

Engage the text and we can talk...

You have the literal that I provided, of which the KJV is a VERSION...


Arsenios
 
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MennoSota

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I don't read greek, therefore I cannot engage you in parsing the greek language. However, I addressed the issue with the tools I have.
Since your works interpretation is held by only yourself, I will leave you to your interpretation and trust the many who easily equal your greek knowledge, yet present that you are wrong.
I'm left with believing you or believing them. Since all of scripture speaks against your position, I will believe them.
How's that for deep thoughts?
False translations are why I go to a literal Greek translation...

Then if you disagree with my literal translation, we can do a word study where we disagree...

Engage the text and we can talk...

You have the literal that I provided, of which the KJV is a VERSION...

Arsenios
 

Andrew

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According to scripture we still all have the same sound mind towards our savior because we all believe in Christ thus our shiftiness towards each others view (ones perspective) may be like unto the disciples at the last supper who argued over 'who is the greatest'... 'IS' being a key word.
I believe there is a common reason why so many branches came out of the faith, we are all human and in the end are all equally prone to human error.
Atheist naturally assume that they will gain peace either eternally or by oblivion -based on their works, and we certainly do not agree with this... none of us here do.
I agree with everyone here at CH so far, I have not found a single bad fruit here even though I havent and will never (or wish to) see all or any of your works -we are always in casual conversation... and who am I to judge anyone based on merit?
My point is that FAITH (ones 'belief') in JESUS is enough!
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever BELIEVETH in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16
 
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MoreCoffee

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I don't read greek, therefore I cannot engage you in parsing the greek language. However, I addressed the issue with the tools I have.
Since your works interpretation is held by only yourself

I'm not sure what you mean by "works interpretation" but I am sure that more than 1.5 billion people agree with Arsenios' proposition. You're in the minority in this matter. I do not contend that the majority is correct just because it is a majority but in this case the majority is correct and the minority is incorrect. An English translation is fine, I use them often, but the passage is written in Greek. The Greek reads thus:
James 2:18Ἀλλ' ἐρεῖ τις, Σὺ πίστιν ἔχεις κἀγὼ ἔργα ἔχω. δεῖξόν μοι τὴν πίστιν σου χωρὶς τῶν ἔργων, κἀγώ σοι δείξω ἐκ τῶν ἔργων μου τὴν πίστιν. 19σὺ πιστεύεις ὅτι εἷς ἐστιν ὁ θεός; καλῶς ποιεῖς: καὶ τὰ δαιμόνια πιστεύουσιν καὶ φρίσσουσιν. 20θέλεις δὲ γνῶναι, ὦ ἄνθρωπε κενέ, ὅτι ἡ πίστις χωρὶς τῶν ἔργων ἀργή ἐστιν; 21Ἀβραὰμ ὁ πατὴρ ἡμῶν οὐκ ἐξ ἔργων ἐδικαιώθη, ἀνενέγκας Ἰσαὰκ τὸν υἱὸν αὐτοῦ ἐπὶ τὸ θυσιαστήριον; 22βλέπεις ὅτι ἡ πίστις συνήργει τοῖς ἔργοις αὐτοῦ καὶ ἐκ τῶν ἔργων ἡ πίστις ἐτελειώθη, 23καὶ ἐπληρώθη ἡ γραφὴ ἡ λέγουσα, Ἐπίστευσεν δὲ Ἀβραὰμ τῷ θεῷ, καὶ ἐλογίσθη αὐτῷ εἰς δικαιοσύνην, καὶ φίλος θεοῦ ἐκλήθη. 24ὁρᾶτε ὅτι ἐξ ἔργων δικαιοῦται ἄνθρωπος καὶ οὐκ ἐκ πίστεως μόνον. 25ὁμοίως δὲ καὶ Ῥαὰβ ἡ πόρνη οὐκ ἐξ ἔργων ἐδικαιώθη, ὑποδεξαμένη τοὺς ἀγγέλους καὶ ἑτέρᾳ ὁδῷ ἐκβαλοῦσα; 26ὥσπερ γὰρ τὸ σῶμα χωρὶς πνεύματος νεκρόν ἐστιν, οὕτως καὶ ἡ πίστις χωρὶς ἔργων νεκρά ἐστιν.​
The part you quoted in your post says
22βλέπεις ὅτι ἡ πίστις[pistis - this word means belief it is also translated as faith but the idea is belief] συνήργει [synergei - the word you eschew as somehow wicked yet here it is, it means 'with' and 'together'] τοῖς ἔργοις [ergois - this word means work, we get our English word "energy" from it.] αὐτοῦ καὶ ἐκ τῶν ἔργων ἡ πίστις ἐτελειώθη, 23καὶ ἐπληρώθη ἡ γραφὴ ἡ λέγουσα, Ἐπίστευσεν δὲ Ἀβραὰμ τῷ θεῷ, καὶ ἐλογίσθη αὐτῷ εἰς δικαιοσύνην, καὶ φίλος θεοῦ ἐκλήθη.​
It is belief together with works that make faith alive. It is living faith. Like the living soul that Adam became when he was created from the dust of the ground together with the breath of life. Without work (the breath) beliefs are inactive dead things. It is not a difficult concept. So, you see that a man is justified by belief and work, and not by belief alone.

, I will leave you to your interpretation and trust the many who easily equal your greek knowledge, yet present that you are wrong.
I'm left with believing you or believing them. Since all of scripture speaks against your position, I will believe them.
How's that for deep thoughts?
 

Arsenios

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I don't read greek, therefore I cannot engage you in parsing the greek language. However, I addressed the issue with the tools I have.
Since your works interpretation is held by only yourself, I will leave you to your interpretation and trust the many who easily equal your greek knowledge, yet present that you are wrong.
I'm left with believing you or believing them. Since all of scripture speaks against your position, I will believe them.
How's that for deep thoughts?

Great post... Thank you...

Actually, this is not my interpretation of the meaning of the text, but only of its words, which form the basis of all interpretations... My job, where we disagree, is to do my best to make you right and me wrong... And this precisely because you do not have the Greek tools... I am keenly sensitive to that issue...

The synergistic understanding of the Faith and our works is that held by the Ancient Faith since Paul converted Antioch in Acts 11:22ff... It is written about by James who tells us that the Faith and our works "work together" (synergize), and that our Faith is perfected (in us) by works... James 2:22 ... We have not changed that understanding in 2000 years, and have been discipling it each and every one of thos 2000 years unto the Salvation of Soul, as Christ Commanded the 11 to do...

We did not conclude from Scripture that this doctrine of the synergy of faith and works perfects faith is true... We lived it in obedience to Christ and then wrote the Scripture affirming it... Scholars originating their doctrines from Scriptural writings do not have the basis for the origination of Scripture... But the Body of Christ Who is Her Head sure does...

Arsenios
 

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I'm not sure what you mean by "works interpretation" but I am sure that more than 1.5 billion people agree with Arsenios' proposition. You're in the minority in this matter. I do not contend that the majority is correct just because it is a majority but in this case the majority is correct and the minority is incorrect.
1.5 billion have only heard one interpretation.
When we read multiple English translations that disagree with Arsenios translation is it wise to toss out all the other translations merely because Arsenios asserts that his translation is accurate while the others are not?

It is belief together with works that make faith alive.

Do you not see how man-centered your sentence is? I don't think you have a clue why the sentence is so ungodly and why it offends God while you lift your self up as king.
Your statement is entirely contrary to all of scripture, including all the book of James. But, you are completely blind to what you have written. It is precisely why people are praying for you and Arsenios. You are missing the mark.
 

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It is belief together with works that make faith alive. ...Without work(s) beliefs are inactive dead things. ... So, you see that a man is justified by belief and work, and not by belief alone.

And it is more than this... James states it clearly... Out of the works (of the Faith) is the Faith perfected (in the faithful)...

The Faith we prize CANNOT be perfected in us unless we do the works of the Faith which Christ discipled to His Apostles...

He even says that the flippin' DEMONS BELIEVE... And tremble... And are most assuredly NOT Justified by God...

So that the Works of the Faith are NECESSARY for us in order to BE Justified...

It is plainly written, and then distorted by western scholars - eg neo-scholastics - to mean that we will always find the Faith doing works...

Arsenios
 

MoreCoffee

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And it is more than this... James states it clearly... Out of the works (of the Faith) is the Faith perfected (in the faithful)...

The Faith we prize CANNOT be perfected in us unless we do the works of the Faith which Christ discipled to His Apostles...

He even says that the flippin' DEMONS BELIEVE... And tremble... And are most assuredly NOT Justified by God...

So that the Works of the Faith are NECESSARY for us in order to BE Justified...

It is plainly written, and then distorted by western scholars - eg neo-scholastics - to mean that we will always find the Faith doing works...

Arsenios

It was some Protestants who said that "we will always find faith doing works" the scholastic scholars said that belief without works is dead echoing saint James' letter.
 

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When we read multiple English translations that disagree with Arsenios translation is it wise to toss out all the other translations merely because Arsenios asserts that his translation is accurate while the others are not?

So we can go to your favorite translations and compare them with my merely literal one if you like...

And just comparing say three with my one, I think you will see how they are all derived from it, each according to western scholarly opinion...

And I would like to toss one more monkey wrench into your pot here: Proper understanding of the Apostolic Text of the Bible is only possible for one who is living the Apostolic Faith... In the Praxis of that Faith of Christ will be known the referents of many terms and practices only alluded to in the Scripture... The "Scholarly" approach from written words outside the praxis of the Faith which originated them from God is utterly misguided... This Faith is not a verbal understanding derived from Scripture, but is a practical understanding of the empirically derived practice of the Faith...

The Letters and Gospels and Revelation were written BY Apostles and their disciples, FOR the Faithful and the Ekklesia, who were all PRACTICING in deeds the Faith being DISCIPLED to them BY the Apostles... Trying to understand their meaning outside this matrix of the Praxis of the Faith will fail with disturbing regularity... And this because the things to which the words pertain are only described empirically by Greek words...

Which is why the Faith is a Mystery held in a pure conscience, and not in a brilliantly encyclopedic intellect...

Arsenios
 

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James 2:22

βλέπεις ὅτι
You are seeing that...

ἡ πίστις συνήργει τοῖς ἔργοις αὐτοῦ,
The Faith is working together (literally, synergizing) with his works...

καὶ ἐκ τῶν ἔργων
And out of the works

ἡ πίστις ἐτελειώθη
The Faith is being perfected.

How do you understand the above where it clearly states that the Faith is perfected by works, that Faith and works work together, that the relationship is SYNERGY...? συνήργει = SYNERGEI

Synergy between Faith and works where out of works is Faith perfected??

Nobody engages this text...

Arsenios

Arsenios translation looks correct to me, [MENTION=394]MennoSota[/MENTION]. He rightly translates the phrase καὶ [and] ἐκ [out of] τῶν [the] ἔργων [works] as "and out of the works". He's given you a word for word translation of the Greek words into English words. And he rightly translates the phrase ἡ [the] πίστις [belief (or faith)] ἐτελειώθη [is perfected] the tense of ἐτελειώθη makes it an action that began in the past was completed in the past.
 
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Arsenios

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The scholastic scholars said that belief without works is dead echoing Saint James' letter.

That is correct... And true... My point is that is says more: I stole this from your post:

22 βλέπεις ὅτι ἡ πίστις συνήργει τοῖς ἔργοις αὐτοῦ
You are seeing that the Faith is synergizing with the works of him

καὶ ἐκ τῶν ἔργων ἡ πίστις ἐτελειώθη,
And out of the works the Faith is perfected.

A wooden, but passable, literal translation...

The Faith, you see, is perfected out of the works of the Faith... In a person...

That is why Luther recoiled... Plus as you have been pointing out: We are not justified by the Faith alone...

Arsenios
 

Andrew

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And it is more than this... James states it clearly... Out of the works (of the Faith) is the Faith perfected (in the faithful)...

The Faith we prize CANNOT be perfected in us unless we do the works of the Faith which Christ discipled to His Apostles...

He even says that the flippin' DEMONS BELIEVE... And tremble... And are most assuredly NOT Justified by God...

So that the Works of the Faith are NECESSARY for us in order to BE Justified...

It is plainly written, and then distorted by western scholars - eg neo-scholastics - to mean that we will always find the Faith doing works...

Arsenios
Agreed. Even the devils are nice to eachother, we must be good to our enemies and love the, this is a great work that God wants us to do as his workmanship, without it you are without love, and really like the commandments, who here truly thinks that they are even works, it comes with the package. Without love all fails, this alone will not earn our salvation but it justifies or pleases God to do so BECAUSE with out it our faith is dead and not true faith. Love God with all of your heart body mind and soul, simply put God first in anything you do and in that you are doing his will. If not you might as be doing Buddas will. i dont think any of us have this problem and its no struggle to do these in Christ as it comes to you naturally, its like proof but who are we proofing? God knows our hearts, this is justification but works alone is as filthy rags. We are washed white in the blood of the lamb

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Arsenios translation looks correct to me, [MENTION=394]MennoSota[/MENTION]. He rightly translates the phrase καὶ [and] ἐκ [out of] τῶν [the] ἔργων [works] as "and out of the works". He's given you a word for word translation of the Greek words into English words. And he rightly translates the phrase ἡ [the] πίστις [belief (or faith)] ἐτελειώθη [is [being] perfected] the tense of ἐτελειώθη makes it an action that began in the past and is continuing in the present that is why "is [being] perfected" is its meaning.

The last: ἐτελειώθη is an aorist passive indicative, and would be better translated as: "has been perfected", rather than "is being perfected"... But clearly, the perfecting of the faith is out of the works - And which works? The works of the Faith which Christ discipled to His Apostles whom He commanded to disciple all the nations...

Arsenios
 

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Agreed. Even the devils are nice to eachother, we must be good to our enemies and love the, this is a great work that God wants us to do as his workmanship, without it you are without love, and really like the commandments, who here truly thinks that they are even works, it comes with the package. Without love all fails, this alone will not earn our salvation but it justifies or pleases God to do so BECAUSE with out it our faith is dead and not true faith. Love God with all of your heart body mind and soul, simply put God first in anything you do and in that you are doing his will. If not you might as be doing Buddas will. i dont think any of us have this problem and its no struggle to do these in Christ as it comes to you naturally, its like proof but who are we proofing? God knows our hearts, this is justification but works alone is as filthy rags. We are washed white in the blood of the lamb

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Nice post - Loving enemies is a struggle for most... A great work indeed...

Arsenios
 

MoreCoffee

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The last: ἐτελειώθη is an aorist passive indicative, and would be better translated as: "has been perfected", rather than "is being perfected"... But clearly, the perfecting of the faith is out of the works - And which works? The works of the Faith which Christ discipled to His Apostles whom He commanded to disciple all the nations...

Arsenios

You are right, I relied on my memory and memory is not always accurate. I ought to have checked my lexicon.
τελειόω,v \{tel-i-o'-o}
1) to make perfect, complete 1a) to carry through completely, to accomplish, finish, bring to an end 2) to complete (perfect) 2a) add what is yet wanting in order to render a thing full 2b) to be found perfect 3) to bring to the end (goal) proposed 4) to accomplish 4a) bring to a close or fulfilment by event 4a1) of the prophecies of the scriptures​
ἐτελειώθη is third person, aorist, passive, indicative, singular of the above lexical entry.

And you're right to encourage our brother MennoSota to check the text and see for himself what it means. There are online interlinear Greek New Testaments available free of charge. Some of them are good quality.
 
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MennoSota

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Arsenios translation looks correct to me, [MENTION=394]MennoSota[/MENTION]. He rightly translates the phrase καὶ [and] ἐκ [out of] τῶν [the] ἔργων [works] as "and out of the works". He's given you a word for word translation of the Greek words into English words. And he rightly translates the phrase ἡ [the] πίστις [belief (or faith)] ἐτελειώθη [is [being] perfected] the tense of ἐτελειώθη makes it an action that began in the past and is continuing in the present that is why "is [being] perfected" is its meaning.
Of course it looks correct to you.
Unfortunately for you, many Greek scholars don't teach what Arsenios teaches from this verse.
Since I am not a Greek scholar, I must determine if a no-name person on a discussion board is more accurate in translation than multiple English translations that have been peer reviewed by hundreds of Greek scholars.
It is belief together with works that make faith alive.
You still don't see why your comment in the earlier post is so man-centered and entirely contrary to all of scripture. I note that you avoid that issue.
 

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Of course it looks correct to you.
Unfortunately for you, many Greek scholars don't teach what Arsenios teaches from this verse.

Pretty much ALL of them do...

Since I am not a Greek scholar,

How could you be? You're not even Greek...

For that matter, neither am I!

That's why I do word for word literal as much as the text will allow...

I must determine if a no-name person on a discussion board is more accurate in translation than multiple English translations that have been peer reviewed by hundreds of Greek scholars.

They are peer reviewed by hundreds of American, not Greek, scholars - Scholars who cannot think in Greek, and do not even speak much Greek, if any, and who have a denominational axe grind with their translation of the Biblical Greek Text...

You still don't see why your comment in the earlier post is so man-centered and entirely contrary to all of scripture. I note that you avoid that issue.

You are closing your eyes to the words of the text.

Here is the KJV:
Jas 2:22
Seest thou how faith wrought with his works,
and by works was faith made perfect?


Does that not say that faith is perfected by works?
Can you not see how this version is derived from my little word for word literal one?

Arsenios
 
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Of course it looks correct to you.
Unfortunately for you, many Greek scholars don't teach what Arsenios teaches from this verse.

The passage reads like this in one of my English translations:
James 2:18 Say to whoever challenges you, “You have faith and I have good deeds; show me your faith apart from actions and I, for my part, will show you my faith in the way I act.” 19 Do you believe there is one God? Well enough, but do not forget, that the speak demons, also, believe, and tremble with fear! 20 You foolish one, do you have to be convinced, that faith without deeds is useless? 21 Think of our father Abraham. Was he not justified by the act of offering his son Isaac on the altar? 22 So you see, his faith was active, along with his deeds, and by what he did his faith became perfect. 23 The word of Scripture was thus fulfilled, Abraham believed God so he was considered a righteous person and he was called the friend of God. 24 So you see, a person is justified by works, and not by faith alone. 25 Likewise, we read of Rahab, the prostitute, that she was acknowledged and saved, because she welcomed the spies, and showed them another way to leave. 26 So, just as the body is dead without its spirit, so faith, without deeds is also dead.​

Since I am not a Greek scholar, I must determine if a no-name person on a discussion board is more accurate in translation than multiple English translations that have been peer reviewed by hundreds of Greek scholars.

You have eyes with which to see the words in Greek and you can check the definitions of each word online any time you want to so it is not true that you are incapable of checking the words in the passage you just don't want to do it. You prefer to pretend ignorance so you can play a game. The scholars who created whatever translation you use knew that these words mean "and out of the works" καὶ [and] ἐκ [out of] τῶν [the] ἔργων [works]. They knew that it says "and out of his works his faith was perfected". It is a fact and pretending not to know it will not make it go away.

You still don't see why your comment in the earlier post is so man-centered and entirely contrary to all of scripture. I note that you avoid that issue.
The comment in my post came from the letter of James. I said "so you see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone". The words are centred on what God does to justify a man - God gives the man works to do and by doing the works the man's faith become living and real and thus he is justified by his works and not by mere beliefs without works.
 

Arsenios

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You are right, I relied on my memory and memory is not always accurate. I ought to have checked my lexicon.
τελειόω,v \{tel-i-o'-o}
1) to make perfect, complete 1a) to carry through completely, to accomplish, finish, bring to an end 2) to complete (perfect) 2a) add what is yet wanting in order to render a thing full 2b) to be found perfect 3) to bring to the end (goal) proposed 4) to accomplish 4a) bring to a close or fulfilment by event 4a1) of the prophecies of the scriptures​
ἐτελειώθη is third person, aorist, passive, indicative, singular of the above lexical entry.

And you're right to encourage our brother MennoSota to check the text and see for himself what it means. There are online interlinear Greek New Testaments available free of charge. Some of the are good quality.

Normally the Greek definite article points to a specific instance of a noun, and here the reference is to autou, of him, so that the Faith he is working synergizes with the working of the Faith, and HIS works perfect THE Faith IN HIM who is doing the works...

And as Paul reports in Hebrews, the overwhelming Faith of the OT Saints did NOT result in their being made perfect - The perfecting of the Saints is NOT from the works they do, because the OT Saints did equally great earthly works and were not made perfect... Not made perfect withour US, as he writes. THAT perfecting only comes with our ontological union with Christ in the Marriage of the Lamb... Which is entereed into at Baptism, and is perfected through the Faith and the works synergizing unto the perfecting of the Faith in the person working the works of the Faith...

Arsenios
 

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All of that introduction is simply to set the stage for the apparent contradiction between Paul and James on the doctrine of justification by faith.

Last week I made a case from Romans 4:1-5 for the truth that we are justified by faith alone, not by works. You can already see it, for example, in Romans 3:28, "We maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law;" and especially in Romans 5:5, "To the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness." So God's verdict of not guilty and his imputing his own righteousness to us in Christ at the beginning of the Christian life is by faith alone, with nothing else commending us to God. We trust his free grace to forgive us and acquit us and count us as righteous because of the work of Christ. That's how we get started in the Christian life - justified by faith alone.

Now you have just heard the verses in James that seem to contradict that. Let's note them again. James 2:21, "Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?" And James 2:24, "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone." So you see that James not only says that a person is justified by works, but he also denies that justification is by faith alone. At least he uses words that, on the face of it, in isolation, seem to mean something very different from Paul.

Does James Refute Paul or an Abuse of Paul's Teaching?
So the key question here is: Does James aim to refute the doctrine of Paul that justification is by faith alone, which would mean there is a massive contradiction in the Bible? Or does James aim to refute an abuse of Paul's teaching and bring a corrective for the churches he was writing to? I want to try to show you that James is not contradicting Paul here but teaching something compatible with Paul's teaching and correcting a misuse of Paul's teaching.

Paul was very aware that his teaching of justification by faith alone was being distorted and misused by those who said, "Well, if we are justified while we are ungodly by faith alone, and this magnifies the grace of God, then let's just keep sinning, because we are secure anyway and God's grace will get more glory." You can see this, for example, in Romans 3:8, "And why not say (as we are slanderously reported and as some claim that we say), 'Let us do evil that good may come'? Their condemnation is just." So he knows he is being slandered: "Paul teaches that the more evil you do the more good comes of it, because God's grace is glorified in justifying the ungodly."

Or consider Romans 5:20. Paul says, "The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more." Paul knows what some are saying, "Well, if grace abounds where sin increases what shall we say?" Romans 6:1, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?" That's what they were saying, "Let's continue in sin that grace may increase."

Now Paul has answers to this kind of superficial distortion and abuse of his teaching. He has answers in virtually all his letters to show how good works and love necessarily flow from real justifying faith. For example, in Galatians 5:13 Paul says, "You were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another." So we have a wonderful freedom from the commandments of God as a means of justification. But does Paul then just lay the works of love on top of that freedom as a layer of legal duty? You got a good start through justification by faith alone, but now there is another way, besides faith, to do what you ought to do and become a loving person?

Faith Works through Love
No. Look at Galatians 5:6, a crucial text in seeing Paul and James in harmony with each other. "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love." So when Paul dealt with the abuse of his doctrine of justification by faith alone, he said: It's not added works like circumcision that will win God's favor. What then? It is "faith working through love." Notice very carefully what he says. What counts with God? "Faith." But what kind of faith? Faith that "works through love." He does not say that what counts with God is "faith" plus a layer of loving works added to faith. He says that what counts with God is the kind of faith that by its nature produces love. But it is faith that gives us our right standing with God. The love that comes from it only shows that it is, in fact, real living, justifying faith.

Now that, I think, is what James was trying to get across to his churches. Loveless faith is absolutely useless; and anybody that comes along and says "We are justified by faith alone, and so you don't have to be a loving person to go to heaven" is not telling the truth.

Let's see how James corrects this distortion of Paul's teaching. Here's where you have to watch out for words - what does James mean by the words he uses? Even when his words may seem to be in conflict with Paul, is the meaning in conflict?

James' concern is with a kind of counterfeit faith that does not produce love. This faith cannot justify anybody. Verse 14: "What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?" You see his concern. "Can that faith save him?" Such faith is not going to save. What kind of works is James interested in? The same kind Paul is - the works of love. Verses 15-16: "If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, and one of you says to them, 'Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,' and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?" So James' concern is that people have real saving faith, not counterfeit faith. And the difference is that the real faith produces loving behavior.

He has three ways of describing this counterfeit faith. First in verse 17, he says it is dead: "Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself." It is dead faith. If faith does not "work through love" as Paul said, it is dead. Second, in verse 19 he says, "You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder." There is a faith that even devils have, namely, belief in right doctrine. The faith that justifies and works through love is not simply belief in right doctrines like, "God is one." Devils can be orthodox at the intellectual level. They believe. But it doesn't save them. So there is dead faith and devil faith. Third, he says in verse 20, "But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?" So there is useless, idle, ineffective, vain, empty faith.

So there are three ways in this passage that James talks about faith to show that the faith he says cannot justify is a faith that Paul would totally agree cannot justify - dead faith, devil faith, and useless faith -faith that has no vital life that works through love.
 
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