Are ALL Homo Sapiens "Children of God?"

[Josiah]

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The Roman Catholic Pope declared that ALL are. He declared, "The nonbaptized, members of other religions, those who worship idols, “even the mafiosi,” who terrorize the neighborhood around the parish, are children of God, though “they prefer to behave like children of the devil,” he said.

This is also an LDS idea. " In modern times, in the revelation recorded in the seventy-sixth section of the Doctrine and Covenants, the Prophet Joseph Smith said that the “inhabitants [of the worlds] are all begotten sons and daughters unto God.”



But is this true?

I say not.


The Bible is clear that all people are God’s creation (Colossians 1:16), and that God loves the entire world (John 3:16), but only those who are born again are children of God (John 1:12; 11:52; Romans 8:16; 1 John 3:1-10).

In Scripture, the lost are never referred to as God’s children. Ephesians 2:3 tells us that before we were saved we were “by nature objects of wrath” (Ephesians 2:1-3). Romans 9:8 says that “it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring.” Instead of being born as God’s children, we are born in sin, which separates us from God and aligns us with Satan as God’s enemy (James 4:4; 1 John 3:8). Jesus said, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me” (John 8:42). Then a few verses later in John 8:44, Jesus told the Pharisees that they “belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire.” The fact that those who are not saved are not children of God is also seen in 1 John 3:10: “This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are..."

We become God’s children when we are justified because we are adopted by God into His family through Christ (Galatians 4:5-6; Ephesians 1:5). This can be clearly seen in verses like Romans 8:14-17: “…because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, ‘Abba, Father.’ The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.” Those who are saved are children “of God through faith in Christ Jesus” (Galatians 3:26) because God has “predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will” (Ephesians 1:5).

God is certainly the CREATOR of all physical life (and that includes homo sapiens) but that doesn't make us a "child of God" anymore than a cockroach, who was also created by God. It is not physical life that makes us His child, but spiritual life. God is the GIVER of life - physical life is shared by plants and bugs and bunny rabbits but they are not THEREBY His children. God is the GIVER also of spiritual life - which places us in His family. That's what makes us Children of God.



Your view?



- Josiah



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[Lamb]

In a wide sense aren't we all His children since He created us? In a narrow sense the verses you point out declare that believers are His children and those who do not believe are naturally His enemies and their father is the devil.

 

[Pedrito]

Acts 17:26-29 (NIV) [emphasis added]:

“26 From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live.
27 God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us.
28 'For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.'
29 Therefore since we are God's offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone--an image made by man's design and skill.”

So there is a general, inherent sonship (and daughtership) that all humans share – that derived in the generative sense.

There is also the special sonship (and daughtership) that results from the process styled "rebirth" and "adoption".

John 1:12 is rightly invoked in this context. Although some attention could well be given to the significance of the normally overlooked “right/power/authority to become” sons of God. As opposed to the unquestioned acceptance of the teaching that God immediately made (makes) those who believed, His children. A second step is indicated.


P.S. If memory serves correctly, the poem from which Paul quotes, is known. As is the author.

 

[Albion]

So there is a general, inherent sonship (and daughtership) that all humans share – that derived in the generative sense.

There is also the special sonship (and daughtership) that results from the process styled "rebirth" and "adoption".

That's right. It doesn't seem worth anyone's effort to try to make a "choose one of the above" debate out of this.

 

[MennoSota]

That's right. It doesn't seem worth anyone's effort to try to make a "choose one of the above" debate out of this.

Agreed. However, in another thread the question revolves around how the Pope uses the concept and whether that usage implies God's loving acceptance of all humanity.
The scriptures would indicate that humanity is in open rebellion to God and there is a distinction between those who are adopted into God’s family as opposed to those who are still in rebellion.

 

[Josiah]

In a wide sense aren't we all His children since He created us?

God created cockroaches, too. Does that make them "Children of God?" If a lady makes a beautiful table out of wood, then she made the table but it it THEREFORE her "child?"

the verses you point out declare that believers are His children.

Yup.

Agreed. However, in another thread the question revolves around how the Pope uses the concept and whether that usage implies God's loving acceptance of all humanity.
The scriptures would indicate that humanity is in open rebellion to God and there is a distinction between those who are adopted into God’s family as opposed to those who are still in rebellion.

Two entirely different issues (which is why it's two entirely different threads). I don't question that God loves all people - INCLUDING His enemies (which is everyone prior to being justified by God)... but being loved does not equal being His "child." I love my bunny rabbit but he's not my child....



Thanks!


- Josiah



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[Lamb]

God created cockroaches, too. Does that make them "Children of God?" If a lady makes a beautiful table out of wood, then she made the table but it it THEREFORE her "child?"

Cockroaches weren't made in God's image.

 

[Josiah]

Cockroaches weren't made in God's image.

Only Adam and Eve were made in God's image. After the Fall, they had children but the Bibles says they were made in Adams' image, nothing about God's image.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Agreed. However, in another thread the question revolves around how the Pope uses the concept and whether that usage implies God's loving acceptance of all humanity.
The scriptures would indicate that humanity is in open rebellion to God and there is a distinction between those who are adopted into God’s family as opposed to those who are still in rebellion.

But the thing is; that it is the will of GOD for all HIS creation to be reconciled unto HIM, and GOD has made a Way for all to be saved/ found without fault. People want to act like others who aren't professing Christians are deniers of Christ; but i have found that none of them (core religious texts)deny Christ (of the ones i've looked into). Past that; we know that who isn't against Christ is on the part of GOD. We know also that any who is actually a faithful servant can judge another based on their works, and that two or three witnesses is a tell of truth. Many profess to be saved Christian's but are secretly, and not so secretly, vile; all while around the entirety of the globe there are those who in no way deny Christ or Jesus the Christ the man; nor do they lead lives contrary to the Example, and Way. Don't get me wrong; I don't know of any personally, nor can I accurately name any specific group.

I have a question that anyone can answer if they want.

If GOD is all knowing and made us inherently evil (I do not agree with that statement) then GOD knows the evil that was instilled in us from conception, and what evil we will inherently carry out throughout our lives, beforehand. So why do most seem to think that we will be damned eternally for said unavoidable, preprogrammed evil; or more specifically; how is GOD seen as merciful and just in this view?

How is it not the knowledge that condemns? Knowing what is good and knowingly going against it for one's own "gain". That is an offence for the believer and for all mankind. We all are born with potential for good and evil. We are all born with a conscience (or at least the potential for one).



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[hedrick]

Only Adam and Eve were made in God's image. After the Fall, they had children but the Bibles says they were made in Adams' image, nothing about God's image.

That's not quite true. Gen 9:6, 1 Cor 11:7.

There are a few passages in Paul that contrast those who are in the image of Adam with those in the image of Christ. This is part of the second Adam theology. But I don't think that eliminates the basic concept of mankind being made in the image of God. At least in Reformed theology we think of that image as being corrupted by sin but not eliminated.

 

[MennoSota]

nm

 

[Lamb]

James 3:9
With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the likeness of God.

 

[MennoSota]

But the thing is; that it is the will of GOD for all HIS creation to be reconciled unto HIM, and GOD has made a Way for all to be saved/ found without fault. People want to act like others who aren't professing Christians are deniers of Christ; but i have found that none of them (core religious texts)deny Christ (of the ones i've looked into). Past that; we know that who isn't against Christ is on the part of GOD. We know also that any who is actually a faithful servant can judge another based on their works, and that two or three witnesses is a tell of truth. Many profess to be saved Christian's but are secretly, and not so secretly, vile; all while around the entirety of the globe there are those who in no way deny Christ or Jesus the Christ the man; nor do they lead lives contrary to the Example, and Way. Don't get me wrong; I don't know of any personally, nor can I accurately name any specific group.

I have a question that anyone can answer if they want.

If GOD is all knowing and made us inherently evil (I do not agree with that statement) then GOD knows the evil that was instilled in us from conception, and what evil we will inherently carry out throughout our lives, beforehand. So why do most seem to think that we will be damned eternally for said unavoidable, preprogrammed evil; or more specifically; how is GOD seen as merciful and just in this view?

How is it not the knowledge that condemns? Knowing what is good and knowingly going against it for one's own "gain". That is an offence for the believer and for all mankind. We all are born with potential for good and evil. We are all born with a conscience (or at least the potential for one).



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Your point of view is man-centered and places all the responsibility on humans while God is forced to act in connection with the actions of men. God, in your view, is subservient to man.
Instead, I point you to scripture.
Ephesians 1:4-5
[4]Even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes.
[5]God decided in advance to adopt us into his own family by bringing us to himself through Jesus Christ. This is what he wanted to do, and it gave him great pleasure.
The "us" being talked about are those whom God has chosen, not all humanity as you continually preach.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Your point of view is man-centered and places all the responsibility on humans while God is forced to act in connection with the actions of men. God, in your view, is subservient to man.
Instead, I point you to scripture.
Ephesians 1:4-5
[4]Even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes.
[5]God decided in advance to adopt us into his own family by bringing us to himself through Jesus Christ. This is what he wanted to do, and it gave him great pleasure.
The "us" being talked about are those whom God has chosen, not all humanity as you continually preach.

So you think which?

That it is not the will of GOD for all to be reconciled.

Or

That GOD doesn't have the means or power to cause HIS will to be done.

Which one?

Neither is scriptural.

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[MennoSota]

So you think which?

That it is not the will of GOD for all to be reconciled.

Or

That GOD doesn't have the means or power to cause HIS will to be done.

Which one?

Neither is scriptural.

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I believe what God says.
Ephesians 1:4-5
[4]Even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes.
[5]God decided in advance to adopt us into his own family by bringing us to himself through Jesus Christ. This is what he wanted to do, and it gave him great pleasure.

 

[Josiah]

That's not quite true. Gen 9:6, 1 Cor 11:7.

There are a few passages in Paul that contrast those who are in the image of Adam with those in the image of Christ. This is part of the second Adam theology. But I don't think that eliminates the basic concept of mankind being made in the image of God. At least in Reformed theology we think of that image as being corrupted by sin but not eliminated.

I think that 1 Corinthians 11:7 is addressing something different. After all, BOTH Adam and Ever - before the Fall - were equally "made in the image of God." If WOMAN no longer are - but MEN are (if we "take" Paul to mean this in the same sense as Genesis does) then the Pope and the LDS are wrong when referring to women but not men and I think that's pretty incredible. And of course, the same applies to Genesis 9:6; if we take it that way then it's okay to murder a woman. I think the verses you quote are referring to something else...

Genesis 2:26 notes that Adam AND Eve were "made in the image of God" (it seems EQUALLY.... this again, the above references must be to something else). This was before the Fall. Now, AFTER the Fall, read Genesis 5:1-3. Now, the RCC implies that Genesis 2:7 means all Homo Sapiens also "in the image of God" because states that "man is the only species that can know and love God." But of course 1) It says no such thing. 2) Genesis 2:7 is BEFORE the Fall (see Genesis 5:1-3 to what happened after) and 3) that contradicts many Scriptures that insists that unregenerate man (those dead spiritually) cannot do this - only by the Holy Spirit giving them faith and wisdom (GIVE - the Holy Spirit is the GIVER of life after the Fall) is this possible - thus man can't do it, God has to. 1 Corinthians 2:14, Ephesians 2:3, Ephesians 2:1, Romans 5:10, 1 Corinthians 12:3, Romans 8:7-8. We aren't born with it.... we are GIVEN it, it is restored via justification (Col. 3:10, Ephesians 4:24)

I think it most likely that "image of God" means to reflect His righteousness, His essence. "Image" or "likeness" means "to be like." In what way were Adam and Eve before the Fall "like God?" It obviously had nothing to do with their DNA, I think it was their sinlessness, righteousness - knowing and doing God's will. But the Fall changed that. Original sin means that our offspring are created in OUR image as Genesis 5 seem to stress - including our disease of sin, our sinfulness. When Adam and Eve fell, they spiritually dead. Now, the physically alive (but spiritually dead) can obviously reproduce (as can cockroaches) but only of their own kind (which are those physically alive but spiritually dead). Now.... I agree..... Paul seems to suggest there is SOME sense in which MALES still have some "image" that FEMALES don't but I think this is likely referring to something else (frankly, I don't know how God is meaning this because I don't think biological males - by virtue of their DNA are spiritually or morally superior to women). It seems to me, OUR (today, after the Fall) being "in the image of God" applies to those who God has given spiritual life and forgiven in Christ: We aren't BORN that way and thus this doesn't apply to all Homo Sapiens by virtue of our DNA. Indeed, I think a case can be made that the ONLY homo sapiens born after the Fall to be "in the image of God" is Jesus.... and we are the same when we are "in Him."


A couple of links: http://els.org/2015/07/07/are-you-created-in-the-image-of-god/


My perspective....


- Josiah




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[popsthebuilder]

I believe what God says.
Ephesians 1:4-5
[4]Even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes.
[5]God decided in advance to adopt us into his own family by bringing us to himself through Jesus Christ. This is what he wanted to do, and it gave him great pleasure.

So which one?

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[MennoSota]

So which one?

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What does God say in the passage I shared?
Your questions are pretzels from your twisted presupposition, therefore it is impossible to actually answer you without spending a long time correcting your faulty presupposition.

 

[popsthebuilder]

What does God say in the passage I shared?
Your questions are pretzels from your twisted presupposition, therefore it is impossible to actually answer you without spending a long time correcting your faulty presupposition.

Both my comments were derived from actual scripture. They where only worded as if not.

You can't answer because it will show you to be in error.

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[MennoSota]

Both my comments were derived from actual scripture. They where only worded as if not.

You can't answer because it will show you to be in error.

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You twist scripture to fit your presupposition. Satan did the same thing with Jesus. Ephesians 1 speaks for itself and you ignore it.