Do people have visions and dreams today?

[tango]

That's right. The number of deacons in any congregation was few, just as with the historic churches of today which continue with the standard orders of clergy (bishop, presbyters, deacons).

The NT gives the qualifications, but not everyone meeting them was made a deacon. Not any more than you can have the qualifications for holding some job in the business world but the company decides to hire someone else who also meets them.

Of course in the business world it's easy to see why someone would want a particular position - usually it would come with some form of clearly identifiable and immediately tangible reward, even if that were nothing more than a paycheck.

It's easy to see why people wouldn't want to be an elder, deacon, pastor etc. Outside of the megachurches there's not a lot of prestige, often a salary that could easily be bettered elsewhere, and a lot of servitude to realise a modest paycheck. The needs of a congregation that don't necessarily fit into convenient office hours and often the endless people issues of balancing different people and their views of how the church should be managed (not helped by the fact that often the most vocal are least willing to get their hands dirty).

My personal view is that anyone who wants to be a pastor, other than in the context of wanting to follow God wherever the path may lead, is probably not suited to be a pastor. Outside of a desire to follow God it's hard to see much in the role of pastor that makes it desirable.

 

[Albion]

All I was saying is that for a man to meet the Biblical qualifications doesn't mean that he is going to be ordained--either in the early church or today.

 

[Lamb]

I voted yes in the poll but I want to add that I don't believe that there are new prophesies concerning Jesus or salvation since we have all that we need to know in the scriptures for that. But I do believe that God speaks to us since I've had experiences where His Word (especially concerning baptism) was explained using other scripture in dreams.

Now, I've also had premonitions throughout my life (both visions and dreams) yet I don't think that they were given to benefit anyone so I have no idea why it happens to me. It's not like I can stop a plane from crashing.

 

[Ruth]

I'm not sure so I answered "don't know." I have had dreams of Jesus in my life and especially when my Mother was dying of cancer.

 

[MennoSota]

I voted yes in the poll but I want to add that I don't believe that there are new prophesies concerning Jesus or salvation since we have all that we need to know in the scriptures for that. But I do believe that God speaks to us since I've had experiences where His Word (especially concerning baptism) was explained using other scripture in dreams.

Now, I've also had premonitions throughout my life (both visions and dreams) yet I don't think that they were given to benefit anyone so I have no idea why it happens to me. It's not like I can stop a plane from crashing.

Stop eating the spotted mushrooms...

 

[tango]

I voted yes in the poll but I want to add that I don't believe that there are new prophesies concerning Jesus or salvation since we have all that we need to know in the scriptures for that. But I do believe that God speaks to us since I've had experiences where His Word (especially concerning baptism) was explained using other scripture in dreams.

I think this is where both sides can get things wrong. Some people seem to regard a prophecy as more or less equivalent to Scripture on the basis that it's God talking to or through a human being. Others reject prophecy on the basis that accepting it would require the canon of Scripture to be reopened to add endless footnotes. I think both sides are wrong, simply because Scripture is something that is universal - it applies to you just as much as it applies to me, and contains a revelation of God that is valid for both of us. Where dreams, visions, prophecies and the like come into play is that they may be relevant to you and only you, or to me and only me. It would clearly be absurd to reopen the canon of Scripture to add a footnote "and the prophet tango spake unto Lammchen, saying 'hear the word of the Lord, thou art called to be a teacher of children in thy church', and Lammchen didst greatly rejoice for her calling was verified" but that doesn't mean God couldn't use me to confirm something for you (with or without calling me a prophet along the way, and outside of examples it's not a title I'd seek to claim)

Now, I've also had premonitions throughout my life (both visions and dreams) yet I don't think that they were given to benefit anyone so I have no idea why it happens to me. It's not like I can stop a plane from crashing.

I've had that sort of thing happen too.... sometimes it's almost like an echo of the future because I "see" something happening moments before it actually happens. Usually it's just small stuff, like instinctively knowing ahead of time that someone on the road is about to do something stupid. It caused me problems when I was learning martial arts because the instructor didn't like my questions about whether it was considered bad form to block an attack before the other guy had even started it. The instructor said it wasn't possible but when he saw me moving to block a kick before the other guy had even started to move his leg he had to consider maybe I was onto something. I never did figure out how that all worked, but it's possible I was picking up cues like eye movements or something without realising it.

 

[Lamb]

Stop eating the spotted mushrooms...

LOL I'll do my best!

 

[atpollard]

Does a qualification alone entitle someone to be a deacon/elder? One would hope that most members of a church would pass the qualifications but it makes little sense to have a church where 80% of the members are deacons and elders.

It always seemed to me that if you wanted the title, then you probably shouldn't have it and if you would rather not have the title, then you are probably a good candidate.

 

[tango]

It always seemed to me that if you wanted the title, then you probably shouldn't have it and if you would rather not have the title, then you are probably a good candidate.

That's what I've often thought - as I said above if someone wants to be a pastor, other than in the context of wanting to follow God wherever that path leads, they probably aren't suited to be a pastor. For myself it's certainly not a path I'd particularly want to follow.

 

[atpollard]

That's what I've often thought - as I said above if someone wants to be a pastor, other than in the context of wanting to follow God wherever that path leads, they probably aren't suited to be a pastor. For myself it's certainly not a path I'd particularly want to follow.

Someone once suggested that I should become a pastor. I told them that I had put out a sort of “sheep skin” to test for God’s will. I’ll become a pastor when God sends an Angel with a sword to drive me to a burning bush and God tells me HIMSELF that He wants me to be a pastor.

 

[tango]

Someone once suggested that I should become a pastor. I told them that I had put out a sort of “sheep skin” to test for God’s will. I’ll become a pastor when God sends an Angel with a sword to drive me to a burning bush and God tells me HIMSELF that He wants me to be a pastor.

Hmmm..... for me I think the sign would need to be a bit clearer than that