Biblical concept of original sin

[MennoSota]

What an old stale bore you propose.

Read before you speak. Seek before you claim to have found.

https://thecorrespondent.com/5889/l...the-carrots-and-the-sticks/226402605-5dbd8da4

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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/sc...9/Babies-not-as-innocent-as-they-pretend.html

 

[popsthebuilder]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/sc...9/Babies-not-as-innocent-as-they-pretend.html

I'm not looking at your link friend.

Your claim was that there is no evidence to back mine; which I showed there to be, and in doing so; showed your claim to be false.

There is no retort or debate past that simple fact.

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[MennoSota]

I'm not looking at your link friend.

Your claim was that there is no evidence to back mine; which I showed there to be, and in doing so; showed your claim to be false.

There is no retort or debate past that simple fact.

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Well, your link didn't work, so at least I have factual evidence.
You choose to ignore the Bible, the Quran and now scientific evidence. That's strike 3. You're out!

 

[popsthebuilder]

Well, your link didn't work, so at least I have factual evidence.
You choose to ignore the Bible, the Quran and now scientific evidence. That's strike 3. You're out!

What a clown.....like you're the umpire of my life or belief.

Christ is my judge and yours. What will be your excuse for propogating the falseness of man's traditions in order to feel false security in this life?

What will you say when brought to task for expressing the Spirit of GOD as evil towards other believers; promoting the inability to repent, the safety of sin, and the damnation of those who lead poius lives and the salvation of the sinner because they made a claim with their lips.

You make a mockery and jest of my faith and show yourself to be only a flapping mouthpiece slandering anything you deem outside of your own little belief.

So I am against Christ to you?

Seems you are to me; though you can't see why or how.



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[MennoSota]

What a clown.....like you're the umpire of my life or belief.

Christ is my judge and yours. What will be your excuse for propogating the falseness of man's traditions in order to feel false security in this life?

What will you say when brought to task for expressing the Spirit of GOD as evil towards other believers; promoting the inability to repent, the safety of sin, and the damnation of those who lead poius lives and the salvation of the sinner because they made a claim with their lips.

You make a mockery and jest of my faith and show yourself to be only a flapping mouthpiece slandering anything you deem outside of your own little belief.

So I am against Christ to you?

Seems you are to me; though you can't see why or how.



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Again, you have no factual evidence. Instead, you now rant off-topic in an attempt to change the subject, which is human sin being a natural consequence of Adams sin.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Again, you have no factual evidence. Instead, you now rant off-topic in an attempt to change the subject, which is human sin being a natural consequence of Adams sin.

Not off topic at all. And surely not trying to change the subject.

If you really want scientific evidence to support my claim then simply Google " is greed a learned or intrinsic motivation? ".


Be warned though; you won't be able to hand wave it away because you don't like it; or, I guess you could seeing as how we apparently are born evil to you.




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[MennoSota]

Not off topic at all. And surely not trying to change the subject.

If you really want scientific evidence to support my claim then simply Google " is greed a learned or intrinsic motivation? ".


Be warned though; you won't be able to hand wave it away because you don't like it; or, I guess you could seeing as how we apparently are born evil to you.




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Google opinions. Ha.
The study I linked was a scientific study that has been peer reviewed. You are clinging to myth as your claim. Even your logic is flawed. Which came first, homo sapien or social dynamics?
However, I assume you believe sin evolved and you trace back to social constructs creating the concept of sin rather than believing, as the Bible states, that sin came from one man and therefore all humans sin.
If, then, sin is a social construct, there is no need for God to redeem mankind because sin is an illusion of man's creation. Sin becomes whatever man says it is. Redemption also becomes whatever man says it is. All life is relative and there is no definitive right or wrong.
Do you see the pickle you have to squirm out of if you deny original sin?

 

[popsthebuilder]

Google opinions. Ha.
The study I linked was a scientific study that has been peer reviewed. You are clinging to myth as your claim. Even your logic is flawed. Which came first, homo sapien or social dynamics?
However, I assume you believe sin evolved and you trace back to social constructs creating the concept of sin rather than believing, as the Bible states, that sin came from one man and therefore all humans sin.
If, then, sin is a social construct, there is no need for God to redeem mankind because sin is an illusion of man's creation. Sin becomes whatever man says it is. Redemption also becomes whatever man says it is. All life is relative and there is no definitive right or wrong.
Do you see the pickle you have to squirm out of if you deny original sin?

What sort of grand presupposition are you spouting.....talk about left field.

It's called current studies because more recent tests have shown that the original model which stemmed from a belief similar to original sin, was indeed proven wrong.

I in no way said or insinuated that sin was a social construct. If it where I would not be sorrowed by my conscience when I commit it.

I said nothing about evolution either; just more supposition on your part.

Greed is learned, and has been shown to be not an intrinsic motivator in more recent studies.

Guess what the root of all sin is there friendo.

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[psalms 91]

I hesitate to jump into this but my experience with small children tells me that greed and selfishness is not learned but ingrained in. Children as small as a year old exhibit these tendancies and it is not learned, it is already there

 

[MennoSota]

What sort of grand presupposition are you spouting.....talk about left field.

It's called current studies because more recent tests have shown that the original model which stemmed from a belief similar to original sin, was indeed proven wrong.

I in no way said or insinuated that sin was a social construct. If it where I would not be sorrowed by my conscience when I commit it.

I said nothing about evolution either; just more supposition on your part.

Greed is learned, and has been shown to be not an intrinsic motivator in more recent studies.

Guess what the root of all sin is there friendo.

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According to you, the root of sin is learned from society. Thus, society is at fault, not the individual.
If society didn't teach humans to sin, there would be no sin.
That is your construct, but you refuse to follow your logic to its fateful end.

 

[MennoSota]

I hesitate to jump into this but my experience with small children tells me that greed and selfishness is not learned but ingrained in. Children as small as a year old exhibit these tendancies and it is not learned, it is already there

Studies agree with you, but pops refuses to accept what science proves true.

 

[popsthebuilder]

According to you, the root of sin is learned from society. Thus, society is at fault, not the individual.
If society didn't teach humans to sin, there would be no sin.
That is your construct, but you refuse to follow your logic to its fateful end.

I didn't put it off on society alone, but societal norms definitely play a part, as does upbringing and observation of others or habitat in general which would be due to societal norms as well. I don't believe society to be rightly guided in general and will gladly follow my belief to the conclusion which is not GOD creating us both in HIS image and too inherently evil.

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[MennoSota]

I didn't put it off on society alone, but societal norms definitely play a part, as does upbringing and observation of others or habitat in general which would be due to societal norms as well. I don't believe society to be rightly guided in general and will gladly follow my belief to the conclusion which is not GOD creating us both in HIS image and to inherently evil.

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You don't see your logic failure. Wish I could get you to see it. Oh well.

 

[popsthebuilder]

I hesitate to jump into this but my experience with small children tells me that greed and selfishness is not learned but ingrained in. Children as small as a year old exhibit these tendancies and it is not learned, it is already there

Do you think for the first year of life while children can't yet express themselves and don't even know what is happening that they don't absorb what they observe and witness?

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[popsthebuilder]

You don't see your logic failure. Wish I could get you to see it. Oh well.

Name it if it is so apparent.

Guote it.

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[Josiah]

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Getting back to the subject....


Fundamentally, "original sin" is the belief that all humans have as fundamental spiritual "disease" It is universal (not limited by age, race, gender, ethnicity, education, etc.). It means we "fall short" (the meaning of the word "sin") of God's character and will, His righteousness and love. We have this propensity.

What is the Law? The Law is the will of God - flowing from His absolute perfection and justice. It is, in essence, that we be as He is - not in terms of essence but character.


Psalm 51:5 "I was sinful at birth"

Genesis 8:21, "Every inclination of man's heart is evil from childhood."

Romans 5:12, "Sin entered the world through one man's sin, and death through sin, and therefore death came to all men for all have sinned."

Romans 3:12, "There is no one who does good, not even one."

Mark 10:18, "There is none who is good but God exclusively."

First John 1:10, "If we claim we have no sin, we make God a liar and His word is not in us."



What does the Law mandate? Essentially, that our character be identical to His.


Matthew 5:48, "You must be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect."

1 Peter 1:16, "You must be holy even as God in heaven is holy."

John 15:12, "Love all people just as I (Jesus) first loved you."

Ephesians 4:32, "forgiving one another, just as God in Christ first forgave you."

First John 2:6, "Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did."

Philippians 2:5, "You must have the same attitude that Christ did."



What is Sin? The word literally means "to miss the mark." In ancient Greece, if an archer missed the target he therefore "sinned." It means to fall short of a standard, to miss the goal.


Romans 3:23 "For all sin and fall short."



Historically, Christians have spoken of ORIGINAL SIN and ACTUALIZED SIN.....


Original: The inclination, the propensity, that DISEASE that means we are self-centered, egotistical, self-serving, rebellious. It's what is in our hearts that LEADS to sins, it is the root of sin. When a man shoots his boss, the "problem" didn't start with the bullet entering the guys' chest, it began with something deep in the heart of the shooter - which LEAD to the chain of things that ultimately meant his pointed his gun and pulled the trigger. If I have a cold, I may sneeze. The sneeze is not the disease, it flows from the disease (which I may have even if I'm not sneezing at that microsecond; even if I take enough pills to never sneeze I still have a cold).


Actualized: These are the symptoms. They may be our thoughts or our words or our deeds. They may be known (observed) or not (even the sinner may not be aware of them). They may be thoughts or words of deeds we SHOULD have had but didn't (being imperfect)... they may be thoughts or words or deeds we should NOT have had but did (being sinful).






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[MoreCoffee]

The doctrine of original sin was/is largely the work of saint Augustine in his reflections on a passage from Romans. The passage follows

Romans 5:12 Therefore, sin entered the world through one man; and through sin, death; and later on, death spread to all humankind, because all sinned. 13 As long as there was no law, they could not speak of disobedience, but sin was already in the world. 14 This is why, from Adam to Moses, death reigned among them, although their sin was not disobedience, as in Adam’s case—this was not the true Adam, but foretold the other, who was to come. 15 Such has been the fall, but God’s gift goes far beyond. All died, because of the fault of one man, but how much more does the grace of God spread, when the gift he granted, reaches all, from this unique man, Jesus Christ. 16 Again, there is no comparison between the gift, and the offense of one man. The disobedience that brought condemnation was of one sinner, whereas the grace of God brings forgiveness to a world of sinners. 17 If death reigned through the disobedience of one and only one person, how much more, will there be a reign of life, for those who receive the grace, and the gift of true righteousness, through the one person, Jesus Christ. 18 Just as one transgression brought sentence of death to all, so, too, one man's good act has brought justification and light to all; 19 and, as the disobedience of only one, made all sinners, so the obedience of one person, allowed all to be made just and holy. 20 The law itself, introduced later on, caused sin to increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21 and, as sin caused death to reign, so grace will reign, in its own time, and, after making us just, and friends of God, will bring us to eternal life, through Jesus Christ, our Lord.

 

[NewCreation435]

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Getting back to the subject....


Fundamentally, "original sin" is the belief that all humans have as fundamental spiritual "disease" It is universal (not limited by age, race, gender, ethnicity, education, etc.). It means we "fall short" (the meaning of the word "sin") of God's character and will, His righteousness and love. We have this propensity.








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that's a good summary

 

[popsthebuilder]

You don't see your logic failure. Wish I could get you to see it. Oh well.

Name it if it is so apparent.

Guote it.


Help me to see my logical falicy.



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[MennoSota]

Name it if it is so apparent.

Guote it.

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I already did. You just can't see it.