Is there a thing that can be done that will not be forgiven? If so what is it?

[popsthebuilder]

Yes
There is no teaching of free-will anywhere in the Bible. The concept is entirely a man-made philosophy...which you uphold.
As I said before, humanism and free-will are man-made philosophies not taught in the Bible.
Calvin is one person who simply observed what God shares in the Bible.

Oh....you really are a Calvinist.....that explains some....

Anyway; I don't have the time to explain how calvinism makes GOD out to be evil so I will simply start by showing you that you are utterly and completely wrong about freewill.

Remind me tomorrow and I'll go into asceticism or pacifism; what Jesus taught through word and example; what you seem to call humanism I think.

So....free will....

Here ya go friend;
Psalm 119: 108. Accept, I beseech thee, the freewill offerings of my mouth, O LORD, and teach me thy judgments.

Ezra 3: 5. And afterward offered the continual burnt offering, both of the new moons, and of all the set feasts of the LORD that were consecrated, and of every one that willingly offered a freewill offering unto the LORD.
Ezra 7: 16. And all the silver and gold that thou canst find in all the province of Babylon, with the freewill offering of the people, and of the priests, offering willingly for the house of their God which is in Jerusalem:
Ezra 8: 28. And I said unto them, Ye are holy unto the LORD; the vessels are holy also; and the silver and the gold are a freewill offering unto the LORD God of your fathers.
2 Chronicles 31: 14. And Kore the son of Imnah the Levite, the porter toward the east, was over the freewill offerings of God, to distribute the oblations of the LORD, and the most holy things.
Deuteronomy 12: 6. And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks:
Deuteronomy 16: 10. And thou shalt keep the feast of weeks unto the LORD thy God with a tribute of a freewill offering of thine hand, which thou shalt give unto the LORD thy God, according as the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
Leviticus 22: 21. And whosoever offereth a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the LORD to accomplish his vow, or a freewill offering in beeves or sheep, it shall be perfect to be accepted; there shall be no blemish therein.
Ezra 1: 4. And whosoever remaineth in any place where he sojourneth, let the men of his place help him with silver, and with gold, and with goods, and with beasts, beside the freewill offering for the house of God that is in Jerusalem.
Numbers 15: 3. And will make an offering by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, or a sacrifice in performing a vow, or in a freewill offering, or in your solemn feasts, to make a sweet savour unto the LORD, of the herd, or of the flock:
Leviticus 23: 38. Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.
Leviticus 22: 23. Either a bullock or a lamb that hath any thing superfluous or lacking in his parts, that mayest thou offer for a freewill offering; but for a vow it shall not be accepted.
Ezra 7: 13. I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee.
Psalm 54: 6. I will freely sacrifice unto thee: I will praise thy name, O LORD; for it is good.
Leviticus 22: 18. Speak unto Aaron, and to his sons, and unto all the children of Israel, and say unto them, Whatsoever he be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers in Israel, that will offer his oblation for all his vows, and for all his freewill offerings, which they will offer unto the LORD for a burnt offering;
Deuteronomy 23: 23. That which is gone out of thy lips thou shalt keep and perform; even a freewill offering, according as thou hast vowed unto the LORD thy God, which thou hast promised with thy mouth.
Numbers 29: 39. These things ye shall do unto the LORD in your set feasts, beside your vows, and your freewill offerings, for your burnt offerings, and for your meat offerings, and for your drink offerings, and for your peace offerings.
Deuteronomy 12: 17. Thou mayest not eat within thy gates the tithe of thy corn, or of thy wine, or of thy oil, or the firstlings of thy herds or of thy flock, nor any of thy vows which thou vowest, nor thy freewill offerings, or heave offering of thine hand:

(Now go and study and you might notice that though the sacrifices and burnt offerings of man were never pleasing to GOD; no such thing is said about free will offering.)

I look forward to your response and will go into how calvinism and grace alone doctrines can indeed lead to blaspheme of the Holy Spirit.

Hope you learned something. Maybe tomorrow you can teach me something.

Wow....a real Calvinist.....o should have pegged you from go.

peace

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[MennoSota]

Oh....you really are a Calvinist.....that explains some....

Anyway; I don't have the time to explain how calvinism makes GOD out to be evil so I will simply start by showing you that you are utterly and completely wrong about freewill.

Remind me tomorrow and I'll go into asceticism or pacifism; what Jesus taught through word and example; what you seem to call humanism I think.

So....free will....

Here ya go friend;
Psalm 119: 108. Accept, I beseech thee, the freewill offerings of my mouth, O LORD, and teach me thy judgments.

Ezra 3: 5. And afterward offered the continual burnt offering, both of the new moons, and of all the set feasts of the LORD that were consecrated, and of every one that willingly offered a freewill offering unto the LORD.
Ezra 7: 16. And all the silver and gold that thou canst find in all the province of Babylon, with the freewill offering of the people, and of the priests, offering willingly for the house of their God which is in Jerusalem:
Ezra 8: 28. And I said unto them, Ye are holy unto the LORD; the vessels are holy also; and the silver and the gold are a freewill offering unto the LORD God of your fathers.
2 Chronicles 31: 14. And Kore the son of Imnah the Levite, the porter toward the east, was over the freewill offerings of God, to distribute the oblations of the LORD, and the most holy things.
Deuteronomy 12: 6. And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks:
Deuteronomy 16: 10. And thou shalt keep the feast of weeks unto the LORD thy God with a tribute of a freewill offering of thine hand, which thou shalt give unto the LORD thy God, according as the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
Leviticus 22: 21. And whosoever offereth a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the LORD to accomplish his vow, or a freewill offering in beeves or sheep, it shall be perfect to be accepted; there shall be no blemish therein.
Ezra 1: 4. And whosoever remaineth in any place where he sojourneth, let the men of his place help him with silver, and with gold, and with goods, and with beasts, beside the freewill offering for the house of God that is in Jerusalem.
Numbers 15: 3. And will make an offering by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, or a sacrifice in performing a vow, or in a freewill offering, or in your solemn feasts, to make a sweet savour unto the LORD, of the herd, or of the flock:
Leviticus 23: 38. Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.
Leviticus 22: 23. Either a bullock or a lamb that hath any thing superfluous or lacking in his parts, that mayest thou offer for a freewill offering; but for a vow it shall not be accepted.
Ezra 7: 13. I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee.
Psalm 54: 6. I will freely sacrifice unto thee: I will praise thy name, O LORD; for it is good.
Leviticus 22: 18. Speak unto Aaron, and to his sons, and unto all the children of Israel, and say unto them, Whatsoever he be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers in Israel, that will offer his oblation for all his vows, and for all his freewill offerings, which they will offer unto the LORD for a burnt offering;
Deuteronomy 23: 23. That which is gone out of thy lips thou shalt keep and perform; even a freewill offering, according as thou hast vowed unto the LORD thy God, which thou hast promised with thy mouth.
Numbers 29: 39. These things ye shall do unto the LORD in your set feasts, beside your vows, and your freewill offerings, for your burnt offerings, and for your meat offerings, and for your drink offerings, and for your peace offerings.
Deuteronomy 12: 17. Thou mayest not eat within thy gates the tithe of thy corn, or of thy wine, or of thy oil, or the firstlings of thy herds or of thy flock, nor any of thy vows which thou vowest, nor thy freewill offerings, or heave offering of thine hand:

(Now go and study and you might notice that though the sacrifices and burnt offerings of man were never pleasing to GOD; no such thing is said about free will offering.)

I look forward to your response and will go into how calvinism and grace alone doctrines can indeed lead to blaspheme of the Holy Spirit.

Hope you learned something. Maybe tomorrow you can teach me something.

Wow....a real Calvinist.....o should have pegged you from go.

peace

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LOL, not one verse you shared is even close to teaching free-will. Please just tuck your humanist philosophy between your legs and wiggle away...

 

[popsthebuilder]

LOL, not one verse you shared is even close to teaching free-will. Please just tuck your humanist philosophy between your legs and wiggle away...

You are being deliberately obtuse.

You said it wasnt biblical; but there it is plain as day.

I don't have the time for your silly games.

I will continue tomorrow GOD willing.

I leave you something to ponder. How is it that you can claim that it is not the will of GOD for HIS creation to have free will? Did GOD create men or automations?

If we aren't free to turn to GOD and HE made is that way then the vast majority was formed by your god to be tortured for eternity with no possibility of turning to HIM. I'll go into detail tomorrow. May GOD guide us both in peacable profitable conversation.

Free will isn't biblical; it's just in the Bible; got it....

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[MennoSota]

You are being deliberately obtuse.

You said it wasnt biblical; but there it is plain as day.

I don't have the time for your silly games.

I will continue tomorrow GOD willing.

I leave you something to ponder. How is it that you can claim that it is not the will of GOD for HIS creation to have free will? Did GOD create men or automations?

If we aren't free to turn to GOD and HE made is that way then the vast majority was formed by your god to be tortured for eternity with no possibility of turning to HIM. I'll go into detail tomorrow. May GOD guide us both in peacable profitable conversation.

Free will isn't biblical; it's just in the Bible; got it....

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Romans 6 simply shuts you up.
Notice that Paul tells us we are either slaves to sin or slaves of God. Freedom doesn't exist.

Romans 6:14-23
[14]Sin is no longer your master, for you no longer live under the requirements of the law. Instead, you live under the freedom of God’s grace.
[15]Well then, since God’s grace has set us free from the law, does that mean we can go on sinning? Of course not!
[16]Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living.
[17]Thank God! Once you were slaves of sin, but now you wholeheartedly obey this teaching we have given you.
[18]Now you are free from your slavery to sin, and you have become slaves to righteous living.
[19]Because of the weakness of your human nature, I am using the illustration of slavery to help you understand all this. Previously, you let yourselves be slaves to impurity and lawlessness, which led ever deeper into sin. Now you must give yourselves to be slaves to righteous living so that you will become holy.
[20]When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the obligation to do right.
[21]And what was the result? You are now ashamed of the things you used to do, things that end in eternal doom.
[22]But now you are free from the power of sin and have become slaves of God. Now you do those things that lead to holiness and result in eternal life.
[23]For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.
Your claim of freedom is a claim that YOU are sovereign and God is your slave. This is why free-will claims are blasphemous. You make yourself out to be greater than God.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Romans 6 simply shuts you up.
Notice that Paul tells us we are either slaves to sin or slaves of God. Freedom doesn't exist.

Romans 6:14-23
[14]Sin is no longer your master, for you no longer live under the requirements of the law. Instead, you live under the freedom of God’s grace.
[15]Well then, since God’s grace has set us free from the law, does that mean we can go on sinning? Of course not!
[16]Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living.
[17]Thank God! Once you were slaves of sin, but now you wholeheartedly obey this teaching we have given you.
[18]Now you are free from your slavery to sin, and you have become slaves to righteous living.
[19]Because of the weakness of your human nature, I am using the illustration of slavery to help you understand all this. Previously, you let yourselves be slaves to impurity and lawlessness, which led ever deeper into sin. Now you must give yourselves to be slaves to righteous living so that you will become holy.
[20]When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the obligation to do right.
[21]And what was the result? You are now ashamed of the things you used to do, things that end in eternal doom.
[22]But now you are free from the power of sin and have become slaves of God. Now you do those things that lead to holiness and result in eternal life.
[23]For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.
Your claim of freedom is a claim that YOU are sovereign and God is your slave. This is why free-will claims are blasphemous. You make yourself out to be greater than God.

I am a bondservant of our Lord; by choice.

A slave has no choice.

Consider an awl to have been pierced through my ear.

So back to not answering questions I guess.

Must you repeatedly exude fruit of the spirit of opposition? You know i can tell who your master is by your words right?



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[popsthebuilder]

Romans 6 simply shuts you up.
Notice that Paul tells us we are either slaves to sin or slaves of God. Freedom doesn't exist.


[15]Well then, since God’s grace has set us free from the law, does that mean we can go on sinning? Of course not!
[
[17]Thank God! Once you were slaves of sin, but now you wholeheartedly obey this teaching we have given you.
[18]Now you are free from your slavery to sin, and you have become slaves to righteous living.
[19]Because of the weakness of your human nature, I am using the illustration of slavery to help you understand all this. Previously, you let yourselves be slaves to impurity and lawlessness, which led ever deeper into sin. Now you must give yourselves to be slaves to righteous living so that you will become holy.
[20]When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the obligation to do right.
[21]And what was the result? You are now ashamed of the things you used to do, things that end in eternal doom.
[22]But now you are free from the power of sin and have become slaves of God. Now you do those things that lead to holiness and result in eternal life.
[23]For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.
Your claim of freedom is a claim that YOU are sovereign and God is your slave. This is why free-will claims are blasphemous. You make yourself out to be greater than God.

Romans 6:14-23
[14]Sin is no longer your master, for you no longer live under the requirements of the law. Instead, you live under the

freedom

of God’s grace.16]Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you

choose

to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can

choose

to obey God, which leads to righteous living.17]Thank God! Once you were slaves of sin, but now you wholeheartedly obey this teaching we have given you.
[18]Now you are

free

from your slavery to sin, and you have become slaves to righteous living.[19]

Because of the weakness of your human nature, I am using the illustration of slavery to help you understand all this.

Previously, you let yourselves be slaves to impurity and lawlessness, which led ever deeper into sin. Now

you must give yourselves

to be slaves to righteous living so that you will become holy.
[20]When you were slaves to sin, you were

free

from the obligation to do right.
[21]And what was the result? You are now ashamed of the things you used to do, things that end in eternal doom.
[22]But now you are

free

from the power of sin and have become slaves of God. Now you do those things that lead to holiness and result in eternal life.
[23]For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.


(I don't think you are even trying at this point. Regardless; thanks for proving my point with scripture, for me. Mighty kind of you sir. Please show me how having a choice isn't freedom. Use scripture again; that's what you do)

peace



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[MennoSota]

I am a bondservant of our Lord; by choice.

A slave has no choice.

Consider an awl to have been pierced through my ear.

So back to not answering questions I guess.

Must you repeatedly exude fruit of the spirit of opposition? You know i can tell who your master is by your words right?



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No, you're not.
You were either chosen by God, before the foundation of the world, or you are not. Ephesians 1 and 2 make this abundantly clear.
Whatever freedom you imagine is that which God grants you by His ordination. Romans 6 makes this clear.
So, your philosophy of free-will is not taught in the Bible.

 

[popsthebuilder]

No, you're not.
You were either chosen by God, before the foundation of the world, or you are not. Ephesians 1 and 2 make this abundantly clear.
Whatever freedom you imagine is that which God grants you by His ordination. Romans 6 makes this clear.
So, your philosophy of free-will is not taught in the Bible.

I already said that my freedom was by the will of GOD....it's still freedom to me though.

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[MennoSota]

I already said that my freedom was by the will of GOD....it's still freedom to me though.

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It is by God's will that you have been set free from sin and made a slave to God. Romans 6 makes this clear.
Thus, it is God's will that takes precedence. Your mere choice of route to drive your bike does not constitute a free-will. You can never do something that God does not ordain. You can never usurp God's will, which is what free-will philosophy ultimately teaches.

 

[atpollard]

Not that it matters to me, but just in case it matters to you ... I am a Reformed Baptist in my theology (so I also agree with the 5 points of 'Calvinism' concerning how God chooses to save people).

John 6:44 NASB “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day."

“No one" = (T) total inability to save ourselves
"can come to Me" = (L) limited atonement
"unless the Father who sent Me" = (U) unconditional election
"draws him;" = (I) irresistible grace
"and I will raise him up on the last day." = (P) perseverance of the saints


Or a longer version of how I think it works:

Ephesians 2:1-10 NASB
1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

 

[atpollard]

Back on topic ...

Matthew Henry on Mark3:28-30

The awful warning Christ gave them to take heed how they spoke such dangerous words as these; however they might make light of them, as only conjectures, and the language of free-thinking, if they persisted in it, it would be of fatal consequence to them; it would be found a sin against the last remedy, and consequently unpardonable; for what could be imagined possible to bring them to repentance for their sin in blaspheming Christ, who would set aside such a strong conviction with such a weak evasion? It is true, the gospel promiseth, because Christ hath purchased, forgiveness for the greatest sins and sinners, v. 28. Many of those who reviled Christ on the cross (which was a blaspheming of the Son of man, aggravated to the highest degree), found mercy, and Christ himself prayed, Father, forgive them; but this was blaspheming the Holy Ghost, for it was by the Holy Spirit that he cast out devils, and they said, It was by the unclean spirit, v. 30. By this method they would outface the conviction of all the gifts of the Holy Ghost after Christ's ascension, and defeat them all, after which there remained no more proof, and therefore they should never have forgiveness, but were liable to eternal damnation. They were in imminent danger of that everlasting punishment, from which there was no redemption, and in which there was no intermission, no remission.

**********

I am reminded of the words of Hebrews 6:4-6 NASB "4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame."
If one rejects the testimony of the holy spirit about the truth of the Christ, what other 'salvation' is possible? I agree with the theologians that have come before ... there is no sin that the Blood of Christ cannot wash clean, except to live and die in determined rejection of Christ's forgiveness. The mission of the Holy Spirit is to draw men to Christ, so 'blasphemy against the Holy Spirit' is to reject his efforts. There is, therefore, no salvation possible for those who will not come to Jesus.

Our bad teachings or false doctrines may be sin, but they are not unpardonable. Peter denied Jesus 3 times and even cursed his name ... yet was both forgiven and greatly used by God. Judas betrayed the Christ, but would not return to God to seek forgiveness. One is known as an Apostle and the other is the Son of Perdition. The difference was less in the sin, than in their heart. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is in the heart and it seeks no forgiveness.

 

[popsthebuilder]

It is by God's will that you have been set free from sin and made a slave to God. Romans 6 makes this clear.
Thus, it is God's will that takes precedence. Your mere choice of route to drive your bike does not constitute a free-will. You can never do something that God does not ordain. You can never usurp God's will, which is what free-will philosophy ultimately teaches.

No it doesn't.

I never claimed my freedom overpowers GOD'S Will; it is GOD'S will.

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[MennoSota]

Back on topic ...

Matthew Henry on Mark3:28-30

The awful warning Christ gave them to take heed how they spoke such dangerous words as these; however they might make light of them, as only conjectures, and the language of free-thinking, if they persisted in it, it would be of fatal consequence to them; it would be found a sin against the last remedy, and consequently unpardonable; for what could be imagined possible to bring them to repentance for their sin in blaspheming Christ, who would set aside such a strong conviction with such a weak evasion? It is true, the gospel promiseth, because Christ hath purchased, forgiveness for the greatest sins and sinners, v. 28. Many of those who reviled Christ on the cross (which was a blaspheming of the Son of man, aggravated to the highest degree), found mercy, and Christ himself prayed, Father, forgive them; but this was blaspheming the Holy Ghost, for it was by the Holy Spirit that he cast out devils, and they said, It was by the unclean spirit, v. 30. By this method they would outface the conviction of all the gifts of the Holy Ghost after Christ's ascension, and defeat them all, after which there remained no more proof, and therefore they should never have forgiveness, but were liable to eternal damnation. They were in imminent danger of that everlasting punishment, from which there was no redemption, and in which there was no intermission, no remission.

**********

I am reminded of the words of Hebrews 6:4-6 NASB "4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame."
If one rejects the testemony of the holy spirit about the truth of the Christ, what other 'salvation' is possible? I agree with the theologians that have come before ... there is no sin that the Blood of Christ cannot wash clean, except to live and die in determined rejection of Christ's forgiveness. The mission of the Holy Spirit is to draw men to Christ, so 'blasphemy against the Holy Spirit' is to reject his efforts. There is, therefore, no salvation possible for those who will not come to Jesus.

Our bad teashings or false docrtines may be sin, but they are not unpardonable. Peter denied Jesus 3 times and even cursed his name ... yet was both forgiven and greatly used by God. Judas betrayed the Christ, but would not return to God to seek forgiveness. One is known as an Apostle and the other is the Son of Perdition. The difference was less in the sin, than in their heart. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is in the heart and it seeks no forgiveness.

This leads to the question I posed in the "Ask a Christian" forum regarding these words in 1 Peter.
1 Peter 2:8b
...They stumble because they do not obey God’s word, and so they meet the fate that was planned for them.
There seems to be a juxtaposition between the actions of the unregenerate and the ordination of God.

 

[MennoSota]

No it doesn't.

I never claimed my freedom overpowers GOD'S Will; it is GOD'S will.

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Holding to "free-will" philosophy makes the human will greater than the will of God.
It seems to me that you have created a contradiction in your own beliefs so you attempt a hybrid which is commonly called semi-pelagianism. Such a view requires you to ignore the obvious contradictions, yet cling to your position lest you give up being your own god.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Holding to "free-will" philosophy makes the human will greater than the will of God.
It seems to me that you have created a contradiction in your own beliefs so you attempt a hybrid which is commonly called semi-pelagianism. Such a view requires you to ignore the obvious contradictions, yet cling to your position lest you give up being your own god.

I am nothing but what GOD has given.

I don't have time for this right now.

We can continue later.

Do you believe in double predestination?

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[popsthebuilder]

Holding to "free-will" philosophy makes the human will greater than the will of God.
It seems to me that you have created a contradiction in your own beliefs so you attempt a hybrid which is commonly called semi-pelagianism. Such a view requires you to ignore the obvious contradictions, yet cling to your position lest you give up being your own god.

How does freedom to choose and submit to GOD place one over GOD? And to be clear; I understand and believe tulip

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[MennoSota]

I am nothing but what GOD has given.

I don't have time for this right now.

We can continue later.

Do you believe in double predestination?

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Double predestination is a man-made philosophy taught by the free-will philosophy proponents in an attempt to void themselves from their own wickedness. I never use the term as it is never used in the Bible.
The Bible teaches predestination of the elect. What this means is that those to whom God chooses to extend grace will be adopted (saved). The rest are justly condemned by their own corruption. The elect, but by the grace of God, would meet the same fate as the unregenerate if it were not for God's loving choice to redeem them inspite of their corruption.
pops, this has been thoroughly discussed in other topic threads when Josiah tried to push the philosophy of double-predestination and atpollard shot him down.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Double predestination is a man-made philosophy taught by the free-will philosophy proponents in an attempt to void themselves from their own wickedness. I never use the term as it is never used in the Bible.
The Bible teaches predestination of the elect. What this means is that those to whom God chooses to extend grace will be adopted (saved). The rest are justly condemned by their own corruption. The elect, but by the grace of God, would meet the same fate as the unregenerate if it were not for God's loving choice to redeem them inspite of their corruption.
pops, this has been thoroughly discussed in other topic threads when Josiah tried to push the philosophy of double-predestination and atpollard shot him down.

That's super.

So to you all who aren't the very elect are damned to eternal torture? That is double predestination.

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[MennoSota]

How does freedom to choose and submit to GOD place one over GOD? And to be clear; I understand and believe tulip

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You cannot choose what God does not allow you to choose. It's not like you "choose" to submit (as if you were so powerful that you could beat God in a fight) to God. You ARE beneath God's will. God does what He wills and you can do nothing to thwart it.
The ultimate question is whether you trust God to act perfectly and lovingly on your behalf (even when great tragedy falls upon you). Do you trust Him in all things and in all circumstances? Do you believe that "all things work together for good to those who love God"?

 

[MennoSota]

That's super.

So to you all who aren't the very elect are damned to eternal torture? That is double predestination.

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The Bible says that...wait for it...ALL...have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
What don't you get about the word "all" in this verse?
A just God will justly condemn law breakers. A holy God will rightly cast out corruption.
These are truths that are very clearly taught in the Bible.
Do you desire to curse God and blame Him for your own corruption?