Passive Righteousness

[Lamb]

The Holy Spirit may give you the faith to start believing something that seemed absurd a few days previously, but you still have the free choice to reject it anyway, no?

If God imposes righteousness upon us without us doing anything at all, not even making a decision that we want it, then we become little more than automatons and cannot truly love because we have no option to not love.

If the Holy Spirit gives us faith...then we no longer are unrighteous are we?

 

[NewCreation435]

Covered in sin how do you receive something...passively because your sin can't reach out to grab hold. It is placed upon you. Passively. Like the rain falling down, you didn't do anything to have it fall on your head.

I feel like now I am just repeating myself, so I am going to stop. You will have your views and I have mine.

 

[tango]

If the Holy Spirit gives us faith...then we no longer are unrighteous are we?

If the Holy Spirit gives us faith to believe is it not still up to us whether to accept the offer or continue to turn away?

 

[MennoSota]

http://www.rjgrune.com/blog/two-kinds-of-righteousness

"Passive righteousness is the vertical relationship between God and man. God does the work. The only contribution that man brings into this equation is sin. This is a righteousness that is alien; it is completely outside of ourselves."

The underline section is my emphasis. That part is so true. The righteousness we receive from God is not something we have asked for or say yes or no to. It is given to us because as the above says, our only contribution we bring to the relationship is sin.

Who comes up with these coined terms?

 

[MennoSota]

Sigh, a whole new thread arguing what was in the old. Again man has a choice and he will in my opinion as long as I am on this board. As I have stated before many times if we have no choice then we are not responsible for what we do and are free to do anything because it is God and not us that chooses

Sigh...it's like you reject the Bible in favor of your opinion...

 

[MennoSota]

The Holy Spirit woos us and we make a decision whether to go forward or not, the decision is oursa, if not then we truly are robots and it doesnt matter what we do or dont do

Unfortunately for you, that's not what the Bible concludes at all...

 

[MennoSota]

As with any gift we have to accept it and open it for it to be, if not then it just sits there. So it is with salvation, we bring our sinful self to God who then begins to clean us up if we are willing. If we dont have a choice and it is all God then I think every person who went to hell has a bone to pick with God

The gift is already yours...whether you open it or not. The gift giver doesn't take it back. It's yours. How you use the gift is a different issue and that relates to sanctification not to salvation.

 

[MennoSota]

As with the prodigal you will reach the end of yourself and find wisdom or as with sadly some you die in your foolishness

The prodigal was a son...not by his choice, but by the Father’s choice. What the son did with his inheritance is an issue of sanctification not salvation.

 

[Imalive]

The prodigal was a son...not by his choice, but by the Father’s choice. What the son did with his inheritance is an issue of sanctification not salvation.

Dead and seperated from the Father is not saved. If the oldest one refused to go in he was not saved.

 

[psalms 91]

Like JSimms I will leave them t it I have said enough for anyone who reads this to make up their mind. Not sure why we needed another thread for this when it is the same in the other thread but ok I have said my piece

 

[Lamb]

If the Holy Spirit gives us faith to believe is it not still up to us whether to accept the offer or continue to turn away?

Do you not believed that we are saved "by grace through faith"? Ephesians 2: 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith

If the Holy Spirit gives you faith to believe then you are saved "by grace through faith". There is no...but then you must...because you have faith given by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Lamb]

God plus man for salvation diminishes the weight of what sin truly is.

My initial post states that we can only bring our sin to God. What does scriptures say about God not being near sin? This is why HE gives us righteousness so that we can be with him. He isn't waiting for your yes because the unbeliever doesn't say yes due to sin. If the Holy Spirit gives you faith to believe, you no longer are an unbeliever. So your yes after that point did nothing, for God already worked.

 

[Lamb]

Who comes up with these coined terms?

I don't know who came up with "passive righteousness" but some of what I read up on it before my opening post was from Calvin.

 

[MennoSota]

Dead and seperated from the Father is not saved. If the oldest one refused to go in he was not saved.

Was he still a child of the family? His Father always considered it to be so. Your claim is unsubstantiated, an opinion that has no support from the text.

 

[MennoSota]

Like JSimms I will leave them t it I have said enough for anyone who reads this to make up their mind. Not sure why we needed another thread for this when it is the same in the other thread but ok I have said my piece

We all know that opinions trump God's word on the CH. Keep holding to your opinion if you must.

 

[MennoSota]

I don't know who came up with "passive righteousness" but some of what I read up on it before my opening post was from Calvin.

So!? Calvin wasn't perfect. He observed soteriology in a biblical fashion, but some of his allegories are head scratching.
I find it interesting that we humans have to qualify words and break them into sub-sections.

 

[Lamb]

So!? Calvin wasn't perfect. He observed soteriology in a biblical fashion, but some of his allegories are head scratching.
I find it interesting that we humans have to qualify words and break them into sub-sections.

Do you agree with what it means though? Do you agree that we have nothing to give to God or do in order to receive righteousness from Him because we are sinful? So that makes it a passive righteousness.

 

[MennoSota]

Do you agree with what it means though? Do you agree that we have nothing to give to God or do in order to receive righteousness from Him because we are sinful? So that makes it a passive righteousness.

There is no other righteousness. It's a redundant statement to call it passive.
God's righteousness, imputed to me by grace, is not passive on God's part. Once, God imparts his righteousness upon us, it becomes active in sanctifying us.
What you are conveying is grace. God's unmerited favor given to us without any need for us to accept or reject his favor. God simply chooses to impute his righteousness upon us and we respond with "Abba Father."
What I don't understand is how anyone could balk at such grace and complain that they weren't given the opportunity to choose whether they accept it or reject it. Who would say, "God you're a cruel task master for making me righteous and white as snow. I really, really wanted to remain depraved and in slavery to sin."? I can't imagine anyone being that foolish, yet we have people arguing for that choice here on the CH. It is a level of disrespect that I am thankful God does not hold against them as they rail away in their ignorance. I was once a free-will proponent. I understand how hard that delusion works to deny God His position of supremacy in our lives. God worked with me for decades before I saw my error.
There is only righteousness (God's perfection) and corruptness (human failure). The term "passive" is redundant.

 

[Lamb]

There is no other righteousness. It's a redundant statement to call it passive.
God's righteousness, imputed to me by grace, is not passive on God's part. Once, God imparts his righteousness upon us, it becomes active in sanctifying us.
What you are conveying is grace. God's unmerited favor given to us without any need for us to accept or reject his favor. God simply chooses to impute his righteousness upon us and we respond with "Abba Father."
What I don't understand is how anyone could balk at such grace and complain that they weren't given the opportunity to choose whether they accept it or reject it. Who would say, "God you're a cruel task master for making me righteous and white as snow. I really, really wanted to remain depraved and in slavery to sin."? I can't imagine anyone being that foolish, yet we have people arguing for that choice here on the CH. It is a level of disrespect that I am thankful God does not hold against them as they rail away in their ignorance. I was once a free-will proponent. I understand how hard that delusion works to deny God His position of supremacy in our lives. God worked with me for decades before I saw my error.
There is only righteousness (God's perfection) and corruptness (human failure). The term "passive" is redundant.

I hope I have never suggested that God's righteousness is passive. Only our reception of it is termed passive because we do nothing but receive what He freely gives. Our reception isn't active in the way some think we have to reach out and take it or open it.

 

[MennoSota]

I hope I have never suggested that God's righteousness is passive. Only our reception of it is termed passive because we do nothing but receive what He freely gives. Our reception isn't active in the way some think we have to reach out and take it or open it.

Correct, but the term "passive" is redundant.