What does God's Sovereignty mean?

[user1234]

1 Timothy 2. How much clear can it be?
But if you dont believe that, are you gonna pray for all man? Are you gonna stand on the Word if your family member rejects Jesus and bind that devil that blinds him anyway? And do warfare and lay your life down in prayer for that person in faith? Me and my house. Period. Back off devil.
If you dont even know if God wants everyone to be saved how on earth do you pray? Like if you dont believe God wants to heal everyone? Might as well go play bingo and not pray at all if you dont even believe God wants to save everyone. Now if someone sinned against the Spirit its useless btw. Sin unto death you dont have to pray for says James.

What do you mean sinned against the Spirit it's useless?
What is sin unto death not to pray for mean?

 

[Imalive]

What do you mean sinned against the Spirit it's useless?
What is sin unto death not to pray for mean?

Jesus didnt pray for Judas or the pharisees who blasphemed the Spirit. Thatd be useless since He already told em theyd never be forgiven. James says that. Oh wait John. Ah its both w a J.
1 John 5:16King James Version (KJV)
16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
Most ppl I know I think dont sin unto death. But for instance I did pray for Milosevic when he was here in prison and I had a dream that he and his wife got saved, but if I lived in the time of Hitler I would not go fast and pray my longues out for Hitler or Mengele. Smith Wigglesworth got mad when Lester Sumrall came into his house w a newspaper. Get those lies out of my house, Hitler and Mussolini will soon be in hell, he said. If the ac would come if I was here I would not pray for him or someone who has taken the mark of the beast, that is useless.

 

[user1234]

Jesus didnt pray for Judas or the pharisees who blasphemed the Spirit. Thatd be useless since He already told em theyd never be forgiven. James says that. Oh wait John. Ah its both w a J.
1 John 5:16King James Version (KJV)
16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
Most ppl I know I think dont sin unto death. But for instance I did pray for Milosevic when he was here in prison and I had a dream that he and his wife got saved, but if I lived in the time of Hitler I would not go fast and pray my longues out for Hitler or Mengele. Smith Wigglesworth got mad when Lester Sumrall came into his house w a newspaper. Get those lies out of my house, Hitler and Mussolini will soon be in hell, he said. If the ac would come if I was here I would not pray for him or someone who has taken the mark of the beast, that is useless.

Thx for the interesting answer, that was thought-provoking.
For myself, I'm still unsure what John means when he says ' There's a sin unto death' and we shouldnt pray for 'it'. ???

Like you said, vs16 says if we see a brother (fellow saved believer, I think he's saying) sin a sin NOT unto death...we should ask (pray?) and God will give him life.
I'm not sure how that works, but I guess it's in keeping with the 'loving one another' that much of the letter refers to.

I'm not sure about the 'sin unto death, tho, bc vs17 says all unrighteousness is sin, and the bible says the wages of sin is death, but then it says there is a sin NOT unto death. Does that mean just one? That wouldnt make sense...

The only thing I can figure, (and I admit, as much as I LOVE the Letter of 1John, I still struggle with understanding some of it), but maybe the sin unto death is unbelief, or rejecting the Lord Jesus Christ as the only way of salvation, or trying to add works/self to it, thereby negating the grace of God?

Or maybe its not referring to eternal life/salvation, but that there's a sin that causes God to take the persons life from earth? But then again, what would that sin be? What good would it do for John to warn us but not tell us exactly what that sin is??

Then vs18 says we (as born-again or saved believers) sin not, (kjv says 'sinneth not' so maybe that means we dont willfully, continually stay in the sin being referred to?)

And I can only see it as being the sin of rejecting salvation as a gift of Gods grace, otherwise, those other sins, we're all guilty of committing at some time or other, arent we?

(Like I say, I struggle with some of these verses, but I see vss19+20 being about osas, so that's good news, and maybe the last verse, 21, is a form of that 'sin unto death' ... Of unbelief/rejecting the TRUE God, and turning to the false Gods, idolatry, idols of self, religious works, lack of love, etc.?)

And I apologize if I veered off the subject of the OP, but I still see God's sovereignty working with mans responsibility.
Not dependent on it, of course, as He IS Sovereign Lord, but WITH it as in relationship in love.
Thx again for the reply. :thumbsup:

 

[Imalive]

Thx for the interesting answer, that was thought-provoking.
For myself, I'm still unsure what John means when he says ' There's a sin unto death' and we shouldnt pray for 'it'. ???

Like you said, vs16 says if we see a brother (fellow saved believer, I think he's saying) sin a sin NOT unto death...we should ask (pray?) and God will give him life.
I'm not sure how that works, but I guess it's in keeping with the 'loving one another' that much of the letter refers to.

I'm not sure about the 'sin unto death, tho, bc vs17 says all unrighteousness is sin, and the bible says the wages of sin is death, but then it says there is a sin NOT unto death. Does that mean just one? That wouldnt make sense...

The only thing I can figure, (and I admit, as much as I LOVE the Letter of 1John, I still struggle with understanding some of it), but maybe the sin unto death is unbelief, or rejecting the Lord Jesus Christ as the only way of salvation, or trying to add works/self to it, thereby negating the grace of God?

Or maybe its not referring to eternal life/salvation, but that there's a sin that causes God to take the persons life from earth? But then again, what would that sin be? What good would it do for John to warn us but not tell us exactly what that sin is??

Then vs18 says we (as born-again or saved believers) sin not, (kjv says 'sinneth not' so maybe that means we dont willfully, continually stay in the sin being referred to?)

And I can only see it as being the sin of rejecting salvation as a gift of Gods grace, otherwise, those other sins, we're all guilty of committing at some time or other, arent we?

(Like I say, I struggle with some of these verses, but I see vss19+20 being about osas, so that's good news, and maybe the last verse, 21, is a form of that 'sin unto death' ... Of unbelief/rejecting the TRUE God, and turning to the false Gods, idolatry, idols of self, religious works, lack of love, etc.?)

And I apologize if I veered off the subject of the OP, but I still see God's sovereignty working with mans responsibility.
Not dependent on it, of course, as He IS Sovereign Lord, but WITH it as in relationship in love.
Thx again for the reply. :thumbsup:

Rejecting Him or adding works is not sin unto death. Such ppl can repent and get saved. I don't know either what it is exactly and I dont have some gift to say: praying for this person is useless, so I just pray for everyone.

 

[user1234]

Rejecting Him or adding works is not sin unto death. Such ppl can repent and get saved. I don't know either what it is exactly and I dont have some gift to say: praying for this person is useless, so I just pray for everyone.

Yes, same here ... and I dont know that ANYbody has that gift, if thats what it is...I mean we're ALL supposed to have some level of discernment, but I dont think thats supposed to be some super-spooky thing, lol, (though some ppl try to claim that, like psychics or newage gurus, and even some street and tv preachers, but that would be more in the false practices or sometimes even demonic realm.)

As christians, we have Gods Word and the Holy Spirit to expose false doctrine and practices, and thats the safest way for discernment.

I guess the thing w Ananais and Sapphira lying was a special revelation, idk if average believers today would get that.

I think rejecting Jesus IS sin unto death though, if it's willful and ongoing,...how can He forgive or save a person that rejects Him forever?

Sure, His mercies are new every morning, and as long as a person hasnt taken their last breath, they can still be saved.
In a sense, tho, adding works or self IS a form of rejection of Jesus, in that it's not trusting in His finished work to save, but trying to climb in another way. But yes, that can be turned from, ... many many of us have had to do that when the light of His glorious grace shined through.

Meanwhile, like you said, we should pray bc its not Gods will that any should perish, and we should want the same thing, too. God bless you.

 

[meluckycharms]

For myself, I'm still unsure what John means when he says ' There's a sin unto death' and we shouldnt pray for 'it'. ???

The NIV is a little more clear.

If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that.
1 John 5:16 NIV


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[user1234]

The NIV is a little more clear.

If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that.
1 John 5:16 NIV


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Lol, Almost as clear as the KJV.
I dont see it explaining at all what sin, leads to death. Also, is this referring to physical death or as some would say 'spiritual death' as in lose your salvation kind of death?

Let's look at it : (even in the Nearly Inspired Version):

~If you see any brother or sister...~
(so that's a christian, then?)

~...commit a sin that does not lead to death...~
(what sins does that cover, and how do we know, unless the person dies? Might that lead into the scrutinizing/fingerpointing of other ppls sins? I'm sure that's not what John is wanting us to do.)

~...you should pray and God will give them life....~
(?? Don't they already have life?)

~...I refer to those who's sin does not lead to death...~
(So again, that would be christians then?)

~...There is a sin that leads to death...~
(Does this mean ONLY one? If so, I go back to it seeming to mean the sin of unbelief by an unsaved person.)

~...I am not saying you should pray about that...~
(Ummm, okay, but if I don't know what it is, how can I know if I'm not praying for it?) (Or not) (yes no?)

Other than that, it's perfectly clear. :disgonbegood:

 

[meluckycharms]

Lol, Almost as clear as the KJV.
I dont see it explaining at all what sin, leads to death. Also, is this referring to physical death or as some would say 'spiritual death' as in lose your salvation kind of death?

Let's look at it : (even in the Nearly Inspired Version):

~If you see any brother or sister...~
(so that's a christian, then?)

~...commit a sin that does not lead to death...~
(what sins does that cover, and how do we know, unless the person dies? Might that lead into the scrutinizing/fingerpointing of other ppls sins? I'm sure that's not what John is wanting us to do.)

~...you should pray and God will give them life....~
(?? Don't they already have life?)

~...I refer to those who's sin does not lead to death...~
(So again, that would be christians then?)

~...There is a sin that leads to death...~
(Does this mean ONLY one? If so, I go back to it seeming to mean the sin of unbelief by an unsaved person.)

~...I am not saying you should pray about that...~
(Ummm, okay, but if I don't know what it is, how can I know if I'm not praying for it?) (Or not) (yes no?)

Other than that, it's perfectly clear. :disgonbegood:

Have you tried looking in a reputable commentary?

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[Imalive]

Have you tried looking in a reputable commentary?

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I just looked it up. One said its blasphemy against the Spirit and that they were enlightened but went back, or sin wilfully after getting saved. Another text says those can't come back. I believe baby christians who fall from the faith can come back though. That happens.

 

[Imalive]

Lol, Almost as clear as the KJV.
I dont see it explaining at all what sin, leads to death. Also, is this referring to physical death or as some would say 'spiritual death' as in lose your salvation kind of death?

Let's look at it : (even in the Nearly Inspired Version):

~If you see any brother or sister...~
(so that's a christian, then?)

~...commit a sin that does not lead to death...~
(what sins does that cover, and how do we know, unless the person dies? Might that lead into the scrutinizing/fingerpointing of other ppls sins? I'm sure that's not what John is wanting us to do.)

~...you should pray and God will give them life....~
(?? Don't they already have life?)

~...I refer to those who's sin does not lead to death...~
(So again, that would be christians then?)

~...There is a sin that leads to death...~
(Does this mean ONLY one? If so, I go back to it seeming to mean the sin of unbelief by an unsaved person.)

~...I am not saying you should pray about that...~
(Ummm, okay, but if I don't know what it is, how can I know if I'm not praying for it?) (Or not) (yes no?)

Other than that, it's perfectly clear. :disgonbegood:

dont they have life already?
No. The lost son was a son but he was dead and his dad was happy that he was alive again when he came back.
I read the text originally says that if you pray you give him life, God uses you to give em life. So if you see someone going off the road and not yet til the point of no return, pray so you give em life. Thats awesome. My mom did that for me. We once went to a meeting where ppl got personal Words from God and she went to the front. He said: God says: thank you. She always prays for ppl and family.
No, unbelief is no problem, but if they were really born again and tasted of the heavenly gift and then go back in the world and deny Him theres no forgiveness possible anymore. They crucify Him again.
Thats worse than denying Him like Peter did. Thats the falling away, apostasy. But I have no idea what that point of no return is. Just read a testimony of a girl who became anti christian for years and came back.

 

[MennoSota]

@ Josiah, I will post these sections of scripture you shared and then you can present God's Sovereignty in each passage.

Ephesians 1:4-5, 11
[4]Even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes.
[5]God decided in advance to adopt us into his own family by bringing us to himself through Jesus Christ. This is what he wanted to do, and it gave him great pleasure.
[11]Furthermore, because we are united with Christ, we have received an inheritance from God, for he chose us in advance, and he makes everything work out according to his plan.
Ephesians 3:3-14
[3]As I briefly wrote earlier, God himself revealed his mysterious plan to me.
[4]As you read what I have written, you will understand my insight into this plan regarding Christ.
[5]God did not reveal it to previous generations, but now by his Spirit he has revealed it to his holy apostles and prophets.
[6]And this is God’s plan: Both Gentiles and Jews who believe the Good News share equally in the riches inherited by God’s children. Both are part of the same body, and both enjoy the promise of blessings because they belong to Christ Jesus.
[7]By God’s grace and mighty power, I have been given the privilege of serving him by spreading this Good News.
[8]Though I am the least deserving of all God’s people, he graciously gave me the privilege of telling the Gentiles about the endless treasures available to them in Christ.
[9]I was chosen to explain to everyone this mysterious plan that God, the Creator of all things, had kept secret from the beginning.
[10]God’s purpose in all this was to use the church to display his wisdom in its rich variety to all the unseen rulers and authorities in the heavenly places.
[11]This was his eternal plan, which he carried out through Christ Jesus our Lord.
[12]Because of Christ and our faith in him, we can now come boldly and confidently into God’s presence.
[13]So please don’t lose heart because of my trials here. I am suffering for you, so you should feel honored.
[14]When I think of all this, I fall to my knees and pray to the Father,

 

[MennoSota]

Explain God's Sovereignty in 1 Timothy 2

1 Timothy 2:1-15
[1]I urge you, first of all, to pray for all people. Ask God to help them; intercede on their behalf, and give thanks for them.
[2]Pray this way for kings and all who are in authority so that we can live peaceful and quiet lives marked by godliness and dignity.
[3]This is good and pleases God our Savior,
[4]who wants everyone to be saved and to understand the truth.
[5]For,There is one God and one Mediator who can reconcile God and humanity—the man Christ Jesus.
[6]He gave his life to purchase freedom for everyone.This is the message God gave to the world at just the right time.
[7]And I have been chosen as a preacher and apostle to teach the Gentiles this message about faith and truth. I’m not exaggerating—just telling the truth.
[8]In every place of worship, I want men to pray with holy hands lifted up to God, free from anger and controversy.
[9]And I want women to be modest in their appearance. They should wear decent and appropriate clothing and not draw attention to themselves by the way they fix their hair or by wearing gold or pearls or expensive clothes.
[10]For women who claim to be devoted to God should make themselves attractive by the good things they do.
[11]Women should learn quietly and submissively.
[12]I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly.
[13]For God made Adam first, and afterward he made Eve.
[14]And it was not Adam who was deceived by Satan. The woman was deceived, and sin was the result.
[15]But women will be saved through childbearing, assuming they continue to live in faith, love, holiness, and modesty.

 

[MennoSota]

How about in 2 Peter 3. What is observed regarding God's Sovereignty?
2 Peter 3:1-18
[1]This is my second letter to you, dear friends, and in both of them I have tried to stimulate your wholesome thinking and refresh your memory.
[2]I want you to remember what the holy prophets said long ago and what our Lord and Savior commanded through your apostles.
[3]Most importantly, I want to remind you that in the last days scoffers will come, mocking the truth and following their own desires.
[4]They will say, “What happened to the promise that Jesus is coming again? From before the times of our ancestors, everything has remained the same since the world was first created.”
[5]They deliberately forget that God made the heavens long ago by the word of his command, and he brought the earth out from the water and surrounded it with water.
[6]Then he used the water to destroy the ancient world with a mighty flood.
[7]And by the same word, the present heavens and earth have been stored up for fire. They are being kept for the day of judgment, when ungodly people will be destroyed.
[8]But you must not forget this one thing, dear friends: A day is like a thousand years to the Lord, and a thousand years is like a day.
[9]The Lord isn’t really being slow about his promise, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent.
[10]But the day of the Lord will come as unexpectedly as a thief. Then the heavens will pass away with a terrible noise, and the very elements themselves will disappear in fire, and the earth and everything on it will be found to deserve judgment.
[11]Since everything around us is going to be destroyed like this, what holy and godly lives you should live,
[12]looking forward to the day of God and hurrying it along. On that day, he will set the heavens on fire, and the elements will melt away in the flames.
[13]But we are looking forward to the new heavens and new earth he has promised, a world filled with God’s righteousness.
[14]And so, dear friends, while you are waiting for these things to happen, make every effort to be found living peaceful lives that are pure and blameless in his sight.
[15]And remember, our Lord’s patience gives people time to be saved. This is what our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you with the wisdom God gave him—
[16]speaking of these things in all of his letters. Some of his comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his letters to mean something quite different, just as they do with other parts of Scripture. And this will result in their destruction.
[17]You already know these things, dear friends. So be on guard; then you will not be carried away by the errors of these wicked people and lose your own secure footing.
[18]Rather, you must grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.All glory to him, both now and forever! Amen.

I will share more of the passages later through the weekend and @ Josiah can share.

 

[Imalive]

Sin unto death:
James 1 if sin is full grown it brings forth death.

Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. 13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. 14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

16 Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren. 17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning. 18 Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures.

Qualities Needed in Trials
19 So then,[a] my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath; 20 for the wrath of man does not produce the righteousness of God.

Doers—Not Hearers Only
21 Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls.

22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; 24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. 25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.

26 If anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one’s religion is useless. 27 Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.

 

[user1234]

dont they have life already?
No. The lost son was a son but he was dead and his dad was happy that he was alive again when he came back.
I read the text originally says that if you pray you give him life, God uses you to give em life. So if you see someone going off the road and not yet til the point of no return, pray so you give em life. Thats awesome. My mom did that for me. We once went to a meeting where ppl got personal Words from God and she went to the front. He said: God says: thank you. She always prays for ppl and family.
No, unbelief is no problem, but if they were really born again and tasted of the heavenly gift and then go back in the world and deny Him theres no forgiveness possible anymore. They crucify Him again.
Thats worse than denying Him like Peter did. Thats the falling away, apostasy. But I have no idea what that point of no return is. Just read a testimony of a girl who became anti christian for years and came back.

Are you saying a brother/sister in Christ? Doesn't have life?
I don't think that's what the passage of 1John is saying.

Ive heard ppl try to tie the parable of the prodigal to someone losing their salvation, but it makes no sense, he didnt lose any salvation, and he was always a son.

I'm glad your Mom prayed for you when you were astray, and you turned to God, ... I'm not sure if you're saying that you got saved then, or were backslidden and came back to Jesus, but either way, I'm glad, but it doesn't show that you could lose your salvation...if anything, it shows you didn't.

As far as the IMPOSSIBLE text from Hebrews .... I think I may go mad if I continue to see ppl misuse and even butcher that passage ... I'm not saying you're doing it on purpose, but my goodness, it's become like one of the favorite passages of works-righteousness ppl to take out of context and try to scare ppl into fearing that they can lose their salvation.

Oy! Ive tried to explain it so many times, but there's false teachers out there that seem determined to just ignore the meaning of scripture and the salvation of our God.

When will ppl stop hacking three verses out of Hebrews 6 (4-6) to try to get ppl trapped in fear?
First of all.... Why do they START reading at vs4? Go back to start to read at 5:12 and go forward. Read 13, 14, and the beginning of Chapter6.
THEN read 4-9, dont just stop at vs6. Then read vss10-20 to finish the chapter, and see that it is teaching ETERNAL SECURITY IN CHRIST, not losing your salvation at all.

The letter was written to the Hebrews. Yes, it expands to cover saved believers, and covers some great doctrine about our Lord and Saviour.
And it's filled with osas assurance of salvation...it's a wonderful portion of Gods Word.

But it's still important to keep the whole thing in context, and verses4-6 would be understood by the 'Hebrews' that the writer is referring to those who would (hypothetically) put themselves BACK UNDER THE LAW.
Not much different than the exhortation in Galatians to 'Stand fast in the liberty of Christ, and not be entangled again in the yoke of bondage.
Thats talking about the law, not sin or a backsliding 'lifestyle'.
It's about the Judaizers and the bondage of law and religion that cannot save.

The passage in Hebrews is saying IF you could be saved by grace and then decide you wanted to go back under the law, you've made it 'impossible' (hypothetically) to be saved, because there is no more sacrifice for sin. Under the old covenant, there were all kinds of sacrifices and religious laws and ceremonies, but now ONCE, at the 'end of the age', there was ONE SACRIFICE FOR ALL .... JESUS, and to reject that sacrifice to go back to the law would render the grace of God helpless and salvation would be an impossibility.

Remember that without the shedding of blood, there's no remission of sin, no forgiveness, no salvation, and if the blood of Jesus, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world, isnt good enough, then its impossible to be saved.

As crazy as it sounds, there were (and are) still those that dont want to receive salvation as a gift from God, but want to earn it somehow, thru religion or law-keeping or sinless perfection, etc.
But the writer says NOPE, cant be done, and then He goes on to show that Jesus sacrifice IS good enough, and our salvation is SECURE IN HIM, Hallelujah .... THAT'S the point of it, and the goodness and mercy and love of God. Jesus loves you! He proved it. The gospel is good news, and God wants us to BELIEVE IT AND BE SAVED.

It's the enemy that wants us to doubt it and think we can lose the salvation that God purchased for us with His own blood. But we cant.
God loves us too much to let that happen, that once He saved us, He'd lose us to His enemy.
No way!
Praise the Lord! {{{hugs}}}
Yes, Jesus loves us,
Yes, Jesus saved us,
Yes, Jesus loves us,
the bible tells us so.
God bless you! :hug:

 

[Andrew]

Are you saying a brother/sister in Christ? Doesn't have life?
I don't think that's what the passage of 1John is saying.

Ive heard ppl try to tie the parable of the prodigal to someone losing their salvation, but it makes no sense, he didnt lose any salvation, and he was always a son.

I'm glad your Mom prayed for you when you were astray, and you turned to God, ... I'm not sure if you're saying that you got saved then, or were backslidden and came back to Jesus, but either way, I'm glad, but it doesn't show that you could lose your salvation...if anything, it shows you didn't.

As far as the IMPOSSIBLE text from Hebrews .... I think I may go mad if I continue to see ppl misuse and even butcher that passage ... I'm not saying you're doing it on purpose, but my goodness, it's become like one of the favorite passages of works-righteousness ppl to take out of context and try to scare ppl into fearing that they can lose their salvation.

Oy! Ive tried to explain it so many times, but there's false teachers out there that seem determined to just ignore the meaning of scripture and the salvation of our God.

When will ppl stop hacking three verses out of Hebrews 6 (4-6) to try to get ppl trapped in fear?
First of all.... Why do they START reading at vs4? Go back to start to read at 5:12 and go forward. Read 13, 14, and the beginning of Chapter6.
THEN read 4-9, dont just stop at vs6. Then read vss10-20 to finish the chapter, and see that it is teaching ETERNAL SECURITY IN CHRIST, not losing your salvation at all.

The letter was written to the Hebrews. Yes, it expands to cover saved believers, and covers some great doctrine about our Lord and Saviour.
And it's filled with osas assurance of salvation...it's a wonderful portion of Gods Word.

But it's still important to keep the whole thing in context, and verses4-6 would be understood by the 'Hebrews' that the writer is referring to those who would (hypothetically) put themselves BACK UNDER THE LAW.
Not much different than the exhortation in Galatians to 'Stand fast in the liberty of Christ, and not be entangled again in the yoke of bondage.
Thats talking about the law, not sin or a backsliding 'lifestyle'.
It's about the Judaizers and the bondage of law and religion that cannot save.

The passage in Hebrews is saying IF you could be saved by grace and then decide you wanted to go back under the law, you've made it 'impossible' (hypothetically) to be saved, because there is no more sacrifice for sin. Under the old covenant, there were all kinds of sacrifices and religious laws and ceremonies, but now ONCE, at the 'end of the age', there was ONE SACRIFICE FOR ALL .... JESUS, and to reject that sacrifice to go back to the law would render the grace of God helpless and salvation would be an impossibility.

Remember that without the shedding of blood, there's no remission of sin, no forgiveness, no salvation, and if the blood of Jesus, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world, isnt good enough, then its impossible to be saved.

As crazy as it sounds, there were (and are) still those that dont want to receive salvation as a gift from God, but want to earn it somehow, thru religion or law-keeping or sinless perfection, etc.
But the writer says NOPE, cant be done, and then He goes on to show that Jesus sacrifice IS good enough, and our salvation is SECURE IN HIM, Hallelujah .... THAT'S the point of it, and the goodness and mercy and love of God. Jesus loves you! He proved it. The gospel is good news, and God wants us to BELIEVE IT AND BE SAVED.

It's the enemy that wants us to doubt it and think we can lose the salvation that God purchased for us with His own blood. But we cant.
God loves us too much to let that happen, that once He saved us, He'd lose us to His enemy.
No way!
Praise the Lord! {{{hugs}}}
Yes, Jesus loves us,
Yes, Jesus saved us,
Yes, Jesus loves us,
the bible tells us so.
God bless you! :hug:

Amen Brother. His royal blood pulses through and out each of his elect and governs them direct unto salvation, his sacrifice redeems all whoso believeth in him and by the one who bringeth him forth -God almighty - and we are saved unto everlasting peace through his love and mercy and through condemnation and humbleness of thy heart are we forgiven.
His power reigns throughout the heavens and beyond all manly capacity for in a stroke of luck we are his children and blessed are we to find favor in his chosen salvation for us.
From dust to dust we are but man, but from Father to Son to Father returned are we children of God forever and ever in grace and mercy Amen.
Let not your right hand constantly receive and acknowledge only what the left hand is doing, but let the words of thy mouth and the meditation of thy heart be acceptable in thy sight of thy redeemer.
Brothers and Sisters pray for us sinners and let not the sun go down on your grievances.

 

[meluckycharms]

I just looked it up. One said its blasphemy against the Spirit and that they were enlightened but went back, or sin wilfully after getting saved. Another text says those can't come back. I believe baby christians who fall from the faith can come back though. That happens.

Sounds about right. Any good commentary will not simply tell you "the right answer". Rather they will give all the possible answers and explain the pros and cons for each. Allowing you to make an informed decision for yourself.

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[user1234]

Sounds about right. Any good commentary will not simply tell you "the right answer". Rather they will give all the possible answers and explain the pros and cons for each. Allowing you to make an informed decision for yourself.

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Why?

 

[Imalive]

Are you saying a brother/sister in Christ? Doesn't have life?
I don't think that's what the passage of 1John is saying.

Ive heard ppl try to tie the parable of the prodigal to someone losing their salvation, but it makes no sense, he didnt lose any salvation, and he was always a son.

I'm glad your Mom prayed for you when you were astray, and you turned to God, ... I'm not sure if you're saying that you got saved then, or were backslidden and came back to Jesus, but either way, I'm glad, but it doesn't show that you could lose your salvation...if anything, it shows you didn't.

As far as the IMPOSSIBLE text from Hebrews .... I think I may go mad if I continue to see ppl misuse and even butcher that passage ... I'm not saying you're doing it on purpose, but my goodness, it's become like one of the favorite passages of works-righteousness ppl to take out of context and try to scare ppl into fearing that they can lose their salvation.

Oy! Ive tried to explain it so many times, but there's false teachers out there that seem determined to just ignore the meaning of scripture and the salvation of our God.

When will ppl stop hacking three verses out of Hebrews 6 (4-6) to try to get ppl trapped in fear?
First of all.... Why do they START reading at vs4? Go back to start to read at 5:12 and go forward. Read 13, 14, and the beginning of Chapter6.
THEN read 4-9, dont just stop at vs6. Then read vss10-20 to finish the chapter, and see that it is teaching ETERNAL SECURITY IN CHRIST, not losing your salvation at all.

The letter was written to the Hebrews. Yes, it expands to cover saved believers, and covers some great doctrine about our Lord and Saviour.
And it's filled with osas assurance of salvation...it's a wonderful portion of Gods Word.

But it's still important to keep the whole thing in context, and verses4-6 would be understood by the 'Hebrews' that the writer is referring to those who would (hypothetically) put themselves BACK UNDER THE LAW.
Not much different than the exhortation in Galatians to 'Stand fast in the liberty of Christ, and not be entangled again in the yoke of bondage.
Thats talking about the law, not sin or a backsliding 'lifestyle'.
It's about the Judaizers and the bondage of law and religion that cannot save.

The passage in Hebrews is saying IF you could be saved by grace and then decide you wanted to go back under the law, you've made it 'impossible' (hypothetically) to be saved, because there is no more sacrifice for sin. Under the old covenant, there were all kinds of sacrifices and religious laws and ceremonies, but now ONCE, at the 'end of the age', there was ONE SACRIFICE FOR ALL .... JESUS, and to reject that sacrifice to go back to the law would render the grace of God helpless and salvation would be an impossibility.

Remember that without the shedding of blood, there's no remission of sin, no forgiveness, no salvation, and if the blood of Jesus, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world, isnt good enough, then its impossible to be saved.

As crazy as it sounds, there were (and are) still those that dont want to receive salvation as a gift from God, but want to earn it somehow, thru religion or law-keeping or sinless perfection, etc.
But the writer says NOPE, cant be done, and then He goes on to show that Jesus sacrifice IS good enough, and our salvation is SECURE IN HIM, Hallelujah .... THAT'S the point of it, and the goodness and mercy and love of God. Jesus loves you! He proved it. The gospel is good news, and God wants us to BELIEVE IT AND BE SAVED.

It's the enemy that wants us to doubt it and think we can lose the salvation that God purchased for us with His own blood. But we cant.
God loves us too much to let that happen, that once He saved us, He'd lose us to His enemy.
No way!
Praise the Lord! {{{hugs}}}
Yes, Jesus loves us,
Yes, Jesus saved us,
Yes, Jesus loves us,
the bible tells us so.
God bless you! :hug:

Yes well accusation and doubt are from satan. I'm not doubting that God can't keep me secure, but going back to the law: dont eat this that, earn it, yes, legalism kills, but lawlesness too. Paul has birthpangs for the foolish Galatians but also mourns for the lawless corinthians. Why mourn if they're alive?

For I fear lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I wish, and that I shall be found by you such as you do not wish; lest there be contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, backbitings, whisperings, conceits, tumults; 21 lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and I shall mourn for many who have sinned before and have not repented of the uncleanness, fornication, and lewdness which they have practiced.

I dont get that thinking w the lost son. Lost. I saw ppl on cchat say he was still saved and a son. Yes a son, but a dead lost son. My son here was dead. And the legalist brother maybe didnt go in to the party at all. He was also a son.

Dead is seperated from God. The lost son was seperated from his father. He went away. He didnt sin though to the point of no return, cause he came back.

 

[meluckycharms]

Why?

Because more often than not, there isn't a definitive right or wrong answer. Only possibilities to choose from.

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