Why celebrate Jesus birth on December 25?

[Albion]

The popularity of Saturnalia continued into the*3rd*and*4th centuries*AD, and as the*Roman Empire*came under Christian rule, many of its customs were recast into or at least influenced the seasonal celebrations surrounding*Christmas*and the*New Year.[9]

If you (or anyone) subscribes to this historical theory, it would follow also that he ought to disavow, reject, decline to use anything else that pagans ever used.

If so, what else that Christians have used falls into that category? I'm pretty certain that earlier pagans used candles, meeting halls, prayers to a deity, initiation ceremonies, and songs of praise, for example.

 

[popsthebuilder]

If you (or anyone) subscribes to this historical theory, it would follow also that he ought to disavow, reject, decline to use anything else that pagans ever used.

If so, what else that Christians have used falls into that category? I'm pretty certain that earlier pagans used candles, meeting halls, prayers to a deity, initiation ceremonies, and songs of praise, for example.

I am in no way saying we shouldn't celebrate the birth of Jesus, the physical manifestation of our Lord and GOD.

I am saying that Romans Incorporated saturnalia into Christmas in order to gain supposed converts.

I mean.... I understand the Sun to be of GOD and pertinent to our existence, but that it is conflated with the Spirit of GOD or worshipped as the ultimate source of our origin is wholly and utterly wrong.

I say again; we must focus on the actual Christian's focus for Christmas which is the birth of the Christ commemorated in many ways; least of which is not the giving of gifts freely in rememberance of the gifts given by the Magi.

I'm not saying to throw out your trees and disavow St. Nickolas, but to stay focused.



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[Albion]

I am in no way saying we shouldn't celebrate the birth of Jesus, the physical manifestation of our Lord and GOD.

I am saying that Romans Incorporated saturnalia into Christmas in order to gain supposed converts.

I mean.... I understand the Sun to be of GOD and pertinent to our existence, but that it is conflated with the Spirit of GOD or worshipped as the ultimate source of our origin is wholly and utterly wrong.

I say again; we must focus on the actual Christian's focus for Christmas which is the birth of the Christ commemorated in many ways; least of which is not the giving of gifts freely in rememberance of the gifts given by the Magi.

Do you know anyone who actually does commemorate the Sun along with the birth of the Son of God when celebrating Christmas??

 

[MennoSota]

Sooner or later, we have to ask those who are so opposed to celebrating the Lord's birth on December 25 to tell us which other date should be used...and why.

Well??

Why celebrate at all? It's the sacrifice of Christ which we are commanded to remember.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Do you know anyone who actually does commemorate the Sun along with the birth of the Son of God when celebrating Christmas??

I'm sure I could find some. What is your point? Are you against the truth?

Is it your contention that we should blindly go about in the traditions of men known by their very works to have been wholly sinful, manipulating, full of greed and pride?

Colossians 2: 8. Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Mark 7: 5. Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands? 6. He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. 7. Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctines the commandments of men. 8. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9. And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.



(I admit that the verse is out of context to some extent, but it does apply.)

(My point is that it is good to be aware of the truth)


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[Albion]

Why celebrate at all? It's the sacrifice of Christ which we are commanded to remember.

I can hardly fault someone who celebrates the event that made possible the salvation of us all.

Certainly the sacrifice of Christ on the Cross is to be remembered, but that was made possible only because God deigned to become Man, to take on our own nature, in order to do all that led up to the Crucifixion and Resurrection.

 

[MennoSota]

I can hardly fault someone who celebrates the event that made possible the salvation of us all.

Certainly the sacrifice of Christ on the Cross is to be remembered, but that was made possible only because God deigned to become Man, to take on our own nature, in order to do all that led up to the Crucifixion and Resurrection.

No fault given. Just stating there is no command. We humans make a big deal and a big profit from Christmas.

 

[Lamb]

The fact of the matter is that Jesus was born. He was born in the same way you and I were, through our mother's bodies. Our Savior humbled Himself to be born in the same manner as the rest of humanity. Our great King came to us in low condition.

It's true there is no command to celebrate His birth. Nor is there a command forbidding it. So for those who want to continue to celebrate His being born in order to die for us, do so! Praise the Lord who gives us life.

 

[Albion]

No fault given. Just stating there is no command. .

You also questioned the idea of doing it at all. In fact, that's what you led off with.

 

[MennoSota]

You also questioned the idea of doing it at all. In fact, that's what you led off with.

Indeed, I question celebrating the birth of Jesus. There is no record that the early disciples ever celebrated it. We see that the date was manufactured from thin air. It is a man-made holiday, where as the remembrance of the atoning sacrifice is commanded for us to remember.
If people want to make-up a holiday that remembers the Messiah choosing to come and die for the elect...I can accept it. If it points to the glory of God, then enjoy.

 

[Imalive]

Indeed, I question celebrating the birth of Jesus. There is no record that the early disciples ever celebrated it. We see that the date was manufactured from thin air. It is a man-made holiday, where as the remembrance of the atoning sacrifice is commanded for us to remember.
If people want to make-up a holiday that remembers the Messiah choosing to come and die for the elect...I can accept it. If it points to the glory of God, then enjoy.

Jesus celebrated Hannukah and that tents feast. God does all those things on these days.
So. That settles it. A clearer and shorter explanation I could not give.

 

[Imalive]

My christmas tree fell over. Oh well. Still laying there.

 

[MennoSota]

Jesus celebrated Hannukah and that tents feast. God does all those things on these days.
So. That settles it. A clearer and shorter explanation I could not give.

Hannukah? Got a chapter and verse?

 

[MennoSota]

My christmas tree fell over. Oh well. Still laying there.

Happy Christmas, Imalive.

 

[Imalive]

Hannukah? Got a chapter and verse?

John 10:22

 

[MennoSota]

John 10:22

Thank you.

 

[Lamb]

Indeed, I question celebrating the birth of Jesus. There is no record that the early disciples ever celebrated it. We see that the date was manufactured from thin air. It is a man-made holiday, where as the remembrance of the atoning sacrifice is commanded for us to remember.
If people want to make-up a holiday that remembers the Messiah choosing to come and die for the elect...I can accept it. If it points to the glory of God, then enjoy.

There is nothing wrong with celebrating His birth even though the disciples did not. No one in this thread says that Christmas is forced upon anyone.

Even when I was in school we didn't force the Jewish kids to participate in any Christmas activities.

 

[Albion]

There is nothing wrong with celebrating His birth even though the disciples did not.

I agree. It seems pointless to have to defend the practice if there is nothing inherently wrong there. Even the people who say it's a continuation of a Saturnalia or that we must avoid anything that pagans ever did, although they're both dead wrong, at least have an argument that would be meaningful if their facts were correct. But there is nothing to an argument that says there is nothing wrong with celebrating Christmas except that you might choose not to do so.

 

[atpollard]

(from Wikipedia)

Although probably the best-known Roman holiday, Saturnalia as a whole is not described from beginning to end in any single ancient source. Modern understanding of the festival is pieced together from several accounts dealing with various aspects.[6]*The Saturnalia was the dramatic setting of the multivolume work of that name by*Macrobius, a Latin writer from*late antiquity*who is the major source for information about the holiday. In one of the interpretations in Macrobius's work, Saturnalia is a festival of light leading to the*winter solstice, with the abundant presence of candles symbolizing the quest for knowledge and truth.[7]*The renewal of light and the coming of the*new year*was celebrated in the later*Roman Empire*at the*Dies Natalis Solis Invicti,

the "Birthday of the Unconquerable Sun", on 23 December.

(That is throwing up red flags for me personally. The word Sun is not the Word/ Son)

[8]Although we are now led to believe that Saturnalia ia the holiday, in which people, during the winter, conserved the kindling of mother nature by bringing evergreens into their home.

The popularity of Saturnalia continued into the*3rd*and*4th centuries*AD, and as the*Roman Empire*came under Christian rule, many of its customs were recast into or at least influenced the seasonal celebrations surrounding*Christmas*and the*New Year.[9]

(peace)

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Winter Solstice is December 21, 22, or 23. It is NEVER December 25 or January 6-7. The Festival of Saturnalia would have been over before Christmas. The story of Christmas being based on Saturnealia smacks of Urban Myth.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Winter Solstice is December 21, 22, or 23. It is NEVER December 25 or January 6-7. The Festival of Saturnalia would have been over before Christmas. The story of Christmas being based on Saturnealia smacks of Urban Myth.

The two festivals were combined.

Of you need me to produce the supporting evidence for you I could, but you would believe it more if you did it.

It isn't a big deal unless you actually worship the Sun as the eternal GOD, or the Temple as the Spirit.

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