Once saved always saved?

[George]

The never ending debacle of if you can lose your salvation.

Go.

 

[Lamb]

God will never forsake us but we can surely jump away from him and fall from faith.

 

[Alithis]

yup .. once saved always saved ...as long as we continue in obedience to the faith ..

 

[king of the unknown]

The real debate is single or double predestination.

 

[Alithis]

there is no debate .. refuse to repent ... your going to perish . debate over

 

[popsthebuilder]

Uhm... What is double predestination?

Faith in selfless Unity through Good

 

[Alithis]

Uhm... What is double predestination?

nooo dont ask ... hahaha .. now the topics going to get double looped twist back turned around and started over -recurring. lol

 

[popsthebuilder]

nooo dont ask ... hahaha .. now the topics going to get double looped twist back turned around and started over -recurring. lol

Thanks. I needed a laugh.

Faith in selfless Unity through Good

 

[king of the unknown]

Uhm... What is double predestination?

Faith in selfless Unity through Good

Double predestination is that God only saves those who will end up saved at the end of there life. In other words those who choose to turn from God were never saved in the first place.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Double predestination is that God only saves those who will end up saved at the end of there life. In other words those who choose to turn from God were never saved in the first place.

I understand know, Thanks. The phrase double predestination is misleading. It is still predestination mixed with free will.
Thanks. No offense meant whatsoever.

Faith in selfless Unity through Good

 

[visionary]

Lord, Lord, I once was saved but now I am lost.. for I did things in your name, but you say you never knew me...

I hope this isn't your situation, for those who are once saved, always saved... You can not rest on your laurels saying.. I believe this so I am saved.

 

[Alithis]

predestination : = a destination that has been predetermined ahead of time
the lord JESUS : the vehicle and only mode of transport to said destination

those that arrive at the destination are those who remain in the vehicle ..if you get off ..you don't get to arrive at the destination .. is all very simple really

 

[psalms 91]

Predestination andfree will go together. God has knowledge of what we will do therefore we are predestined by our choices that God foreknew.

 

[Hammster]

God will never forsake us but we can surely jump away from him and fall from faith.

And then He forsakes you?

 

[Hammster]

Predestination andfree will go together. God has knowledge of what we will do therefore we are predestined by our choices that God foreknew.

That makes God a learner and one who reacts to us. That's not sovereignty.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Seems to me that since one is saved when God passes judgement and declares one in grace and in Christ that one cannot face that judgement again and hence one is "always saved" having been "saved by grace" but this all takes place in the judgement (personal judgement or last judgement whichever comes first) and that is why once one is saved one is always saved and not because a mere profession of faith in this life is the same thing as being saved.

 

[Hammster]

Seems to me that since one is saved when God passes judgement and declares one in grace and in Christ that one cannot face that judgement again and hence one is "always saved" having been "saved by grace" but this all takes place in the judgement (personal judgement or last judgement whichever comes first) and that is why once one is saved one is always saved and not because a mere profession of faith in this life is the same thing as being saved.

We are justified (made righteous) by faith. One and done.

 

[MoreCoffee]

We are justified (made righteous) by faith. One and done.

Faith that is able to make one just is faith that results in fidelity to Christ and a life marked by obedience (as much as grace permits and resolute actions provides) to Christ's commandments. Hence the Lord's description of the last Judgement in the gospel according to saint Matthew.

Mat 25:31-46 NJB (31) 'When the Son of man comes in his glory, escorted by all the angels, then he will take his seat on his throne of glory. (32) All nations will be assembled before him and he will separate people one from another as the shepherd separates sheep from goats. (33) He will place the sheep on his right hand and the goats on his left. (34) Then the King will say to those on his right hand, "Come, you whom my Father has blessed, take as your heritage the kingdom prepared for you since the foundation of the world. (35) For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you made me welcome, (36) lacking clothes and you clothed me, sick and you visited me, in prison and you came to see me." (37) Then the upright will say to him in reply, "Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? (38) When did we see you a stranger and make you welcome, lacking clothes and clothe you? (39) When did we find you sick or in prison and go to see you?" (40) And the King will answer, "In truth I tell you, in so far as you did this to one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did it to me." (41) Then he will say to those on his left hand, "Go away from me, with your curse upon you, to the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. (42) For I was hungry and you never gave me food, I was thirsty and you never gave me anything to drink, (43) I was a stranger and you never made me welcome, lacking clothes and you never clothed me, sick and in prison and you never visited me." (44) Then it will be their turn to ask, "Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty, a stranger or lacking clothes, sick or in prison, and did not come to your help?" (45) Then he will answer, "In truth I tell you, in so far as you neglected to do this to one of the least of these, you neglected to do it to me." (46) And they will go away to eternal punishment, and the upright to eternal life.'​

Clearly how one lives one's life in terms of generosity, care, compassion, and charity (love) matters a great deal to the Lord when he sits in judgement of the good and the wicked (sheep & goats). If this description of the last judgement in the gospel is true (and I take it for the gospel truth myself) then surely one ought to be circumspect about boasts of one's own eternal security if one's way of life is more like that of the 'goats' than that of the 'sheep'. This description is far from unique in the gospels and writings of the new covenant. Many similar warnings and descriptions are given in the scriptures so we ought to conclude that the way we live matters and any notion of "once saved always saved" that leads one to believe that living a wicked life after professing faith will nevertheless leave one "saved" despite the wickedness of one's way of life is a wicked deception that must be resisted by the faithful.

 

[Hammster]

Actually, that describes sheep and goats and their behavior.. It doesn't describe what one must do to be a sheep or a goat

 

[MoreCoffee]

Actually, that describes sheep and goats and their behavior.. It doesn't describe what one must do to be a sheep or a goat

Seems to me that "(34) Then the King will say to those on his right hand, "Come, you whom my Father has blessed, take as your heritage the kingdom prepared for you since the foundation of the world. (35) For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you made me welcome, (36) lacking clothes and you clothed me, sick and you visited me, in prison and you came to see me." " is descriptive of what the 'sheep' do and hence what is expected of them while "(41) Then he will say to those on his left hand, "Go away from me, with your curse upon you, to the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. (42) For I was hungry and you never gave me food, I was thirsty and you never gave me anything to drink, (43) I was a stranger and you never made me welcome, lacking clothes and you never clothed me, sick and in prison and you never visited me." " describes what the 'goats' do and hence what lead to their condemnation. Seems that both groups had 'faith' but one had the kind of faith that is unproductive of good works and hence were condemned while the others has productive faith and hence were saved. Saint James explains it thus:

Jas 1:23-25 NJB (23) Anyone who listens to the Word and takes no action is like someone who looks at his own features in a mirror and, (24) once he has seen what he looks like, goes off and immediately forgets it. (25) But anyone who looks steadily at the perfect law of freedom and keeps to it -- not listening and forgetting, but putting it into practice -- will be blessed in every undertaking.​

And he adds

Jas 2:13 NJB Whoever acts without mercy will be judged without mercy but mercy can afford to laugh at judgement.

Jas 2:18-24 NJB (18) But someone may say: So you have faith and I have good deeds? Show me this faith of yours without deeds, then! It is by my deeds that I will show you my faith. (19) You believe in the one God -- that is creditable enough, but even the demons have the same belief, and they tremble with fear. (20) Fool! Would you not like to know that faith without deeds is useless? (21) Was not Abraham our father justified by his deed, because he offered his son Isaac on the altar? (22) So you can see that his faith was working together with his deeds; his faith became perfect by what he did. (23) In this way the scripture was fulfilled: Abraham put his faith in God, and this was considered as making him upright; and he received the name 'friend of God'. (24) You see now that it is by deeds, and not only by believing, that someone is justified.​

The way one chooses to live, and the way you live is at least in part a choice that one makes for one's self, plays a pivotal role in how God will decide your case either by mercifully saving or by justly condemning. One's faith without works is not sufficient of itself, faith without works is dead.