The term "Roman Catholic"

[Imalive]

No confusion. That was the part I wanted to respond to, and I quoted you properly.

Then that would be their choice, but the implication that a denomination is somehow like a cult and the people all so dumb that they'll believe anything is unwarranted.

People are sheep and new believers are like young birds w their mouth wide open. A lot of ppl just swallow what some leader says or what others say. I've seen evangelicals shout halleluja when a New Age nut case visited. And I've done it myself and maybe still do.

 

[Imalive]

We can talk when you are not so agitated. In the meantime, read through all the previous posts on this and related threads and you may be able to answer your questions for yourself.

You mean when Snerfie is calm and rational?
That's funny.

 

[Albion]

People are sheep and new believers are like young birds w their mouth wide open. A lot of ppl just swallow what some leader says or what others say. I've seen evangelicals shout halleluja when a New Age nut case visited. And I've done it myself and maybe still do.

There is truth to that, and it applies to all sorts of human relationships and associations, not just churches.

However, this does not mean that the prudent person, the Bible-believing person, ought to avoid all cooperative activities with other Christians, Christian churches, etc. They serve a purpose that is not possible if one is a "lone wolf" believer. Some of these people know this and style themselves as non-denominational, when what they actually mean is "non-participating" in the activities that the New Testament, the very word of God, instructs believers to participate in.

 

[Imalive]

There is truth to that, and it applies to all sorts of human relationships and associations, not just churches.

However, this does not mean that the prudent person, the Bible-believing person, ought to avoid all cooperative activities with other Christians, Christian churches, etc. They serve a purpose that is not possible if one is a "lone wolf" believer. Some of these people know this and style themselves as non-denominational, when what they actually mean is "non-participating" in the activities that the New Testament, the very word of God, instructs believers to participate in.

I thought non denominational is just evangelical. No you can better have a pastor who warns for wolves. I've seen a lot of those on Facebook. Churches are bad. Pastors are bad. Now they just meet in a house w no real leader and go w every wind of false doctrin and false teachers.

 

[Albion]

I thought non denominational is just evangelical.

Traditionally, it referred to a congregation that was not affiliated with any denomination but remained completely autonomous. In practice, these either assume the doctrinal views of the pastor (who, oftentimes, was the person who created the church) or are essentially Baptist or Pentecostal in belief and practice. But the term has come to be used also by lone wolf Christians who have chosen not to belong to any church and, usually, not to attend worship services in any of them.

 

[user1234]

We can talk when you are not so agitated. In the meantime, read through all the previous posts on this and related threads and you may be able to answer your questions for yourself.

Agitated... Lol. Silly boy, youre cute.
My questions, huh?
Ok, i guess i better type slower for ya.
They were rhetorical, for the most part.
You made up a false accusation in order to try to goad me into another one of your petty, pointless religious debates.
You can have your denominationalism then, K? I see the fruit of it, and am SOOO glad Jesus saved me, and one thing he saved me from is religious oppression, typical of what you are trying to impose here.
Throw all your strawmen and false accusations you want, you cant touch this.

Since you didnt understand, I'll spell it out for you:
YOU made the implication that denominationalists are all dumb.
You should apologize.

 

[Albion]

Agitated... Lol. Silly boy, youre cute.
My questions, huh?
Ok, i guess i better type slower for ya.
They were rhetorical, for the most part.
You made up a false accusation in order to try to goad me into another one of your petty, pointless religious debates.

And with that, we're done. So is your credibility after all the talk you've been giving us lately about Christian charity and mutual respect, how hurt you are when people accuse you unfairly, etc.

 

[user1234]

And with that, we're done. So is your credibility after all the talk you've been giving us lately about Christian charity and mutual respect, how hurt you are when people accuse you unfairly, etc.

Yeah, yep. Keep trying to goad...you DO know who is the false accuser of the brethren is dontcha?
When you learn how to have a conversation like a man, without chopping off ppls posts to set up strawmen, and making false accusations and teaming up for insinuating insults, maybe there WILL be an actual conversation. Nice try.

 

[user1234]

Its sad watching some ppl act as if theyre SOO righteous while throwing little fiery darts at another brother, but then when the shield of faith deflects them back, they run away, or look to throw more somewhere else, or team up with another to get them to do it. Really sad and not too cool.

Yes IVE been trying to get things away from the smarminess to focus on BROTHERLY love and things of the Lord.
What has YOUR response been? Even one single agreement my way? One thumbs up or one offer of prayer together? One word of encouragement? Any attempts at all towards that end?

No, just more deaf ears and denominational dogma, and false accusations, and when those things get exposed...then YOURE gonna cry 'Where's the love?'
Its been right here, and hasnt run away. Where's yours been?

 

[Lamb]

Let's get back to the topic please.

 

[user1234]

You mean when Snerfie is calm and rational?
That's funny.

Let's get back to the topic please.

:cheer2:

 

[MennoSota]

Yeah, yep, you DO know the brethren WILL be Nice.

Hey brother, is this cutting of your post better? I admit, I kinda felt like a Roman Catholic quoting scripture when I did this.

 

[user1234]

Hey brother, is this cutting of your post better? I admit, I kinda felt like a Roman Catholic quoting scripture when I did this.

I gotta admit, it is pretty typical of the chicken-hearted mockery and butchery that some religious types seem to think is synonymous with friendship and brotherly love.

And it's not just RomanCatholics that do the ......... .
Outside of some of the self-congratulatory cliques they form, some of them are really lacking in grace and mercy sometimes.

It's understandable to an extent, because of the 'denominationally superior' attitude that comes with the upbringing/teaching.

When youre told you belong to the One True Church on earth, and you have their one great leader everyone fawns over, and their parade of underlings ruling over the masses, it should come as no surprise that they often have to chop texts and create doctrines, to support their positions and try to win arguements.

But it does amaze me sometimes how often others get manipulated (some seem to actually WANT to be manipulated and controlled) and they develop the same RING-kissing mentality, along with a selective cold-heartedness and 'clique-iness'.

I'm glad God's mercies are new every morning, and great is HIS faithfulness, bc it can be a long wait for it from many religious types.

Again, Roman CatholicISM is sort of set up to be that way, but some of the others who do it do surprise me a bit.

That mentality often exchanges a sense of humor for smirking insults and meanspirited condescension, which may even get a laugh and a high-five at times, I get it (but is mocking approval christian?) but genuine biblical good cheer just isnt there alot of times.

Support and encouragement...brotherly love...doesnt seem to be for the whole body.
And I know, bc I know how I used to be, and God is STILL peeling back some layers, but WOW am I seeing it much more clearly lately.

RomanCatholiCISM (not all RomanCathOLICS, but CISM, there is a difference, ok folks?...) contributes to it bc it replaces grace with works.
And thats really the underlying issue with alot of ppl from all different kinds of denoms/religions. They have a works mentality that goes against the grace of God...in some cases they hate the grace of God, in spite of what they may say to the contrary.

Just tell some of them that Jesus loves you, He died and rose for your sins, once for all forever, believe in Him and He'll save you...
And they turn on you and want to chop your head off...along with relationships/friendships/brotherly love, texts, and scripture.

But I dont hate them, only some of the doctrine and practice, and some of the condescending attitude towards other PPL, and especially BELIEVERS, that comes from it. But I dont hate them, I love them and pray for them to come around, though not nearly as much as I should, and that I DO apologize for and need to bring before the Lord pdq.
Peace.

 

[hedrick]

The Catholic Church is not in communion with those bodies. It may have some kinds of agreements, but it does not have full communion or "altar and pulpit fellowship" with even the Eastern Orthodox churches, let alone the twenty-odd Eastern jurisdictions that are part of the church headed by the Pope and required to hold the same beliefs as any Roman Catholic layperson in an American parish is.

I assume the wording here is confused, since the Roman Catholic Church certainly does have full communion with the Eastern Catholic churches.

For a more detailed review see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Catholic_Churches. You'll note that these are churches with their own patriarchs and canons. They all acknowledge the Pope as superior, but they are still separate bodies from the Roman Catholic Church, of which the Pope is the patriarch.

 

[MennoSota]

Snerfle, we are creatures of habit. Legalism is a habit that humans are naturally drawn toward. God knows this. It is why God’s grace is so amazing. In all your frustration here, take a deep breath and let God's grace amaze you.
There is nothing anyone can say or do that will change a person, except by ordination of God. Let God do what He will do and let us point to God's means of reconciliation.
Peace and...never cheer for Notre Dame. Always remember...never cheer for Notre Dame.

 

[hedrick]

Historically the Popes never claimed that the Eastern churches should just merge into the Latin church. It was always acknowledged that there were separate churches with their own patriarchs. The claim was that the patriarch of Rome was senior and had some authority over all of them. (The nature of that claimed authority seems to have grown over time, reaching the ultimate absurdity in Vatican 1.)

The church of which the Pope is patriarch could reasonably be called the Latin Church. But at least in the US I don't see Catholics using that term for themselves, whereas I do see many churches and national bodies using the term Roman Catholic Church. Hence that's the term I use.

 

[Albion]

I assume the wording here is confused, since the Roman Catholic Church certainly does have full communion with the Eastern Catholic churches.

The so-called Eastern Catholic churches are under the Vatican umbrella. I explained that, I thought. The Eastern Orthodox churches are not in full communion, however.

You'll note that these are churches with their own patriarchs and canons. They all acknowledge the Pope as superior, but they are still separate bodies from the Roman Catholic Church, of which the Pope is the patriarch.

Separate bodies from the Roman Catholic in the sense that they have different rites. The RCC follows the Latin rite; they follow others. But they are accountable to the Pope ultimately and must hold the same doctrines as the RCC. Some of them were created, in fact, so that Rome could snake away some of the people from the Eastern Orthodox.

This is not a situation which can properly be thought of as separate denominations that have come together in the fashion, say, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America and The Episcopal Church.

 

[user1234]

Snerfle, we are creatures of habit. Legalism is a habit that humans are naturally drawn toward. God knows this. It is why God’s grace is so amazing. In all your frustration here, take a deep breath and let God's grace amaze you.
There is nothing anyone can say or do that will change a person, except by ordination of God. Let God do what He will do and let us point to God's means of reconciliation.
Peace and...never cheer for Notre Dame. Always remember...never cheer for Notre Dame.

I appreciate the reply MennSota.
One thing I've gotta stress though is IM NOT FRUSTRATED! IM NOT UNCALM AND IRRATIONAL, OR IN NEED OF CALMING BEFORE BEING ABLE TO CONVERSE, AS SOME ACCUSERS SO SWEETLY PUT IT EARLIER!
IM NOT IM NOT IM NOT!!!!!!!!!
AAAAAAAHHHHHHGGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!

Okay, now that I've played along a bit ...
In ALL SERIOUSNESS, I am quite calm and actually laughing, meaning with joy, inside, God is SOOO good, all the time, and my demeanor is quite often read ALLL wrong on this site, its easy to misunderstand some things in writing.

But there is no question that sometimes ppl just have no interest in truth or brotherly love, and simply get their Socks off trying to instigate and irk others.

Sometimes I give em what they want, and sometimes I give em a taste of their own crap right back, only they cant take it, and then starts the running away, or the third-grade ignoring mentality, or the 'Im telling mommy' reaction.

See, the thing is, alot of ppl think being a christian means pretending your a nice little granny from sweet street (and thats just the guys, lol) (ja, until they decide they dont like you, then theyre cut throat and backstabbing, again, no love and SURELY no grace)

But thats not christianity...thats really no different than the games the world plays.
No, when you get to a point where, for example, youve said a dozen times, you have RC family and friends, you love them, you know at least one is saved, and you dont bash RCathOLICS at all, but hate some of their doctrines and practices, just like Jesus does, and they turn right around and say 'stop bashing RCatholics', you know all theyre really doing is saying 'Bleep you, we're gonna ignore you and make false accusations anyway', ...

when they slice and dice your posts, re-quote portions to alter your meaning and manipulate what other ppl think about you, and even do so in a team effort, so that they can force you off point and into having to defend yourSELF, all because they get their jollies out of messing with some ppl and not for any regard for truth or brotherly love, in other words, if theyre gonna thumb their nose and say 'bleep you' only without using the words so they can get away with it, well, Im not some liberal leftist california or australian pretend-sweet-granny who resonds with playing patty-cakes with the devil.

After enough needling and fiery darts, and underhanded 'bleep yous', they get one back...Straight back, not covertly.
Only then the accusations of 'not being a nice christian' come out, in a twisted way. I think the pyshology ppl have a name for that, idk.

But Im not being meanspirited or wishing bad on anybody... I come from a place where ppl can hash it out, be done with it, and then go enjoy one TOGETHER.
If others cant get past their hatred to do that, thats on them.

We can be angry over the way someone treats us or others, or even what theyre doing to themself, (perhaps without even realizing it), without being irrational or wrathful.

Jesus said to some ppl they were a den of snakes and their father was the devil.
Pretty harsh, some might say, but He still loved them .... He didnt hate them and wasnt irrational, though Im sure He was accused of both.

No, it's fine, its a fine day, and Im okay ... A little saddened? Maybe. A little angry? Maybe, but no big deal. Sometimes its hard to figure why some things happen the way they do, but there's usually some areas of growth needed and I hope for that in my own life.

But all in all Im of pretty good cheer, way moreso than I deserve to be, and Im rejoicing in God my Saviour .... Jesus is sooo good and so worthy, I just wish there was more rejoicing in a collective sense here on this site, less backbiting and condemnation.

But again, I dont blame the ppl so much as I do some of the denominationalism that breeds it, and I hold the RC denom as responsible as any of them.
Works righteousness doctrine does not like grace, and so there' a natural sandpaper effect' with some folks as a result, and it clouds the idea that we're SUPPOSED to be on the same page.

Am praying for more grace, ... Gods love and grace abounds in Jesus, and He will work things together for the good.

Meanwhile, old habits ARE hard to break, including for my 'quite elderly but doing ok RC yet SAVED Notre Dame fan' ... Dad, lol.

How can I root against HIM, brother?... He's not only my Dad, but my brother in Christ, my friend, and the greatest guy in the world, and I love him very much. On some levels he's been my best or only friend, especially of late, and still some ppl resent that or me for it, and that hurts in ways I cant even explain, long story, ...this last year has been hard in some ways, and should the Lord tarry, its harder still seeing things 'wind down' if you know what I mean, and I dont really have much support ... especially in a 'spiritual, brother or sister, moral support' kind of sense.

But now I'll probably be accused of whining and the violins will start coming out, so lol, Ive said too much already and I apologize for 'derailing' again.

(What's all this fuss about 'Violins' on television? Why would anyone be against that?)

Ohhhh.......

(Nevermind)

Peace. :spinningsmilie:

 

[MennoSota]

I appreciate the reply MennSota.
One thing I've gotta stress though is IM NOT FRUSTRATED! IM NOT UNCALM AND IRRATIONAL, OR IN NEED OF CALMING BEFORE BEING ABLE TO CONVERSE, AS SOME ACCUSERS SO SWEETLY PUT IT EARLIER!
IM NOT IM NOT IM NOT!!!!!!!!!
AAAAAAAHHHHHHGGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!

Okay, now that I've played along a bit ...
In ALL SERIOUSNESS, I am quite calm and actually laughing, meaning with joy, inside, God is SOOO good, all the time, and my demeanor is quite often read ALLL wrong on this site, its easy to misunderstand some things in writing.

But there is no question that sometimes ppl just have no interest in truth or brotherly love, and simply get their Socks off trying to instigate and irk others.

Sometimes I give em what they want, and sometimes I give em a taste of their own crap right back, only they cant take it, and then starts the running away, or the third-grade ignoring mentality, or the 'Im telling mommy' reaction.

See, the thing is, alot of ppl think being a christian means pretending your a nice little granny from sweet street (and thats just the guys, lol) (ja, until they decide they dont like you, then theyre cut throat and backstabbing, again, no love and SURELY no grace)

But thats not christianity...thats really no different than the games the world plays.
No, when you get to a point where, for example, youve said a dozen times, you have RC family and friends, you love them, you know at least one is saved, and you dont bash RCathOLICS at all, but hate some of their doctrines and practices, just like Jesus does, and they turn right around and say 'stop bashing RCatholics', you know all theyre really doing is saying 'Bleep you, we're gonna ignore you and make false accusations anyway', ...

when they slice and dice your posts, re-quote portions to alter your meaning and manipulate what other ppl think about you, and even do so in a team effort, so that they can force you off point and into having to defend yourSELF, all because they get their jollies out of messing with some ppl and not for any regard for truth or brotherly love, in other words, if theyre gonna thumb their nose and say 'bleep you' only without using the words so they can get away with it, well, Im not some liberal leftist california or australian pretend-sweet-granny who resonds with playing patty-cakes with the devil.

After enough needling and fiery darts, and underhanded 'bleep yous', they get one back...Straight back, not covertly.
Only then the accusations of 'not being a nice christian' come out, in a twisted way. I think the pyshology ppl have a name for that, idk.

But Im not being meanspirited or wishing bad on anybody... I come from a place where ppl can hash it out, be done with it, and then go enjoy one TOGETHER.
If others cant get past their hatred to do that, thats on them.

We can be angry over the way someone treats us or others, or even what theyre doing to themself, (perhaps without even realizing it), without being irrational or wrathful.

Jesus said to some ppl they were a den of snakes and their father was the devil.
Pretty harsh, some might say, but He still loved them .... He didnt hate them and wasnt irrational, though Im sure He was accused of both.

No, it's fine, its a fine day, and Im okay ... A little saddened? Maybe. A little angry? Maybe, but no big deal. Sometimes its hard to figure why some things happen the way they do, but there's usually some areas of growth needed and I hope for that in my own life.

But all in all Im of pretty good cheer, way moreso than I deserve to be, and Im rejoicing in God my Saviour .... Jesus is sooo good and so worthy, I just wish there was more rejoicing in a collective sense here on this site, less backbiting and condemnation.

But again, I dont blame the ppl so much as I do some of the denominationalism that breeds it, and I hold the RC denom as responsible as any of them.
Works righteousness doctrine does not like grace, and so there' a natural sandpaper effect' with some folks as a result, and it clouds the idea that we're SUPPOSED to be on the same page.

Am praying for more grace, ... Gods love and grace abounds in Jesus, and He will work things together for the good.

Meanwhile, old habits ARE hard to break, including for my 'quite elderly but doing ok RC yet SAVED Notre Dame fan' ... Dad, lol.

How can I root against HIM, brother?... He's not only my Dad, but my brother in Christ, my friend, and the greatest guy in the world, and I love him very much. On some levels he's been my best or only friend, especially of late, and still some ppl resent that or me for it, and that hurts in ways I cant even explain, long story, ...this last year has been hard in some ways, and should the Lord tarry, its harder still seeing things 'wind down' if you know what I mean, and I dont really have much support ... especially in a 'spiritual, brother or sister, moral support' kind of sense.

But now I'll probably be accused of whining and the violins will start coming out, so lol, Ive said too much already and I apologize for 'derailing' again.

(What's all this fuss about 'Violins' on television? Why would anyone be against that?)

Ohhhh.......

(Nevermind)

Peace. :spinningsmilie:

Whoa...did the spirit of Josiah fall upon you? I stopped reading after the second paragraph. Do you have bullet points or a summary?

 

[user1234]

Whoa...did the spirit of Josiah fall upon you? I stopped reading after the second paragraph. Do you have bullet points or a summary?

I didnt mean to go that long, but I didnt think it mattered anymore anyway, but its also that Im pretty much on that childish ignore feature on here except for when somebody might want to take me off long enough to throw another dart of condemnation at me and then put me right back on it anyway.

Its ok, I understand the source, but for the most part, I could fit all the brotherly love Ive received here into a thimble.
Its either smarmy digs/insults, or ignores.
Any points I make regarding anything about the bible, Jesus, salvation, etc, are either completely stepped over, or cut and replied to out of context, or met with a false accusation or insult of some sort. Mostly disregarded.

So I guess what I write is immaterial here.

.... But there just MIGHT be someone out there, as a guest or future reader, that will look and and say, Yeah, you know, this guy is just trying to get the gospel of the grace of God out there, and let ppl know how much Jesus loves them, and that so much of the religious works, practice, and false doctrines out there are leading ppl AWAY from salvation, and cause more division than unity.

The guy is trying to love these folks and give them the truth and wants ppl to be saved, set free, and rejoice in Jesus together, all he's doing is offering them the gospel of salvation and he keeps getting his heart stomped on, or treated like a piece of crap. It doesnt seem right on a christian forum especially.

Anyway, Jesus must increase, it aint about me anyhow, but it sure aint about an overload of religion that never saved anybody anyway, and if even one person reads some scripture or explanation of it that I posted and gets saved, then praise the Lord its all worth it, but yeah, its made for a pretty crappy time of it in the meantime. Thanks for reading two paragraphs at least, anyway.