Who IS and IS NOT a Christian?

[user1234]

I think its disgusting the way some ppl insist on deliberately offending others in a cruel but cowardly, insideous sort of way, and smirk about it when they see a person hurt.
Combine that practice with false doctrine, and its stupid and dangerous to assume that that person is a christian. The accusation that someone made that ppl are running around shouting 'youre not saved and youre going to hell' is bogus and way out of line. And me being accused that Im ALWAYS telling EVERYONE that theyre not saved is MORE than just an exaggeration...

 

[Imalive]

I think its disgusting the way some ppl insist on deliberately offending others in a cruel but cowardly, insideous sort of way, and smirk about it when they see a person hurt.
Combine that practice with false doctrine, and its stupid and dangerous to assume that that person is a christian. The accusation that someone made that ppl are running around shouting 'youre not saved and youre going to hell' is bogus and way out of line. And me being accused that Im ALWAYS telling EVERYONE that theyre not saved is MORE than just an exaggeration...

You did tell ppl and dont stop if they say they do not appreciate it and the jerkish stuff you just said about ppl, you could better say sorry and just leave a while or something. Offending deliberately is not good, neither is accusing ppl of doing that when they just made an innocent joke.
Nobody here said that you are not a christian. Now that would be nasty if someone said that.
Anyways I'm leaving a while. Facepalm.

 

[user1234]

Sent to my inbox.....
If someone like youve also done calls me a 'christian' I tend to get sick and tired of it and leave and go hang out w christians who say God tells em homosexuality and other filth is fine. I like to share the gospel w those.
***************
Not even sure what any of this is supposed to mean, but sharing the gospel is what Ive mainly been about , until i was hit with personal attacks , which I can see now are another trick of the devil to distract me from it, bc the devil, false teachers, and works-righteous religious types HATE with a passion the gospel of the GRACE of God, thru FAITH alone in Jesus and cause others to preach against it even when they arent aware of it. They get sucked right into works w out even knowing it. Its a lie from the devil, and those that cause it are enemies of the cross.

Bc I knew someone who believed in grace but changed by the infiltration of an UNSAVED religious-works type. Its very subtle and insideous, and some of them have an agenda ... I think Im understanding a bit better Pauls point about a thorn, but thats not always the case, in mine it just might be a nasty punk. There are many.

Back to the accusation, though, I never said the person who left me that msg in my inbox wasnt a christian. In fact, I think that person is, but has been the victim of some really bad realky false teaching, along with having an innocence that makes them vulnerable to manipulation, and if I didnt care MAJORLY about that person, I wouldnt care at all to bother posting this.

 

[Imalive]

Sent to my inbox.....
If someone like youve also done calls me a 'christian' I tend to get sick and tired of it and leave and go hang out w christians who say God tells em homosexuality and other filth is fine. I like to share the gospel w those.
***************
Not even sure what any of this is supposed to mean, but sharing the gospel is what Ive mainly been about , until i was hit with personal attacks , which I can see now are another trick of the devil to distract me from it, bc the devil, false teachers, and works-righteous religious types HATE with a passion the gospel of the GRACE of God, thru FAITH alone in Jesus and cause others to preach against it even when they arent aware of it. They get sucked right into works w out even knowing it. Its a lie from the devil, and those that cause it are enemies of the cross.

Bc I knew someone who believed in grace but changed by the infiltration of an UNSAVED religious-works type. Its very subtle and insideous, and some of them have an agenda ... I think Im understanding a bit better Pauls point about a thorn, but thats not always the case, in mine it just might be a nasty punk. There are many.

Back to the accusation, though, I never said the person who left me that msg in my inbox wasnt a christian. In fact, I think that person is, but has been the victim of some really bad realky false teaching, along with having an innocence that makes them vulnerable to manipulation, and if I didnt care MAJORLY about that person, I wouldnt care at all to bother posting this.

to your inbox?
I wrote that as a post and removed it. i went to the dutch forum yesterday. one said i had an evil spirit lolz.

 

[user1234]

to your inbox?
I wrote that as a post and removed it. i went to the dutch forum yesterday. one said i had an evil spirit lolz.

i didnt say it was you

 

[user1234]

i didnt say it was you

i said it was in my inbox, not who from

 

[Imalive]

i didnt say it was you

It was me. Do you get email stuff of removed posts?

 

[user1234]

i said it was in my inbox, not who from

But you helped prove my point, that I receive things in my inbox, (from others, ok?) which are quickly pulled, so on the forums, most ppl would know nothing, but the person that wanted to shoot a flaming arrow made damn sure I saw it. THATS one version of the cowardly stuff I was talking about. Do you see what I mean now?
And no, Im not going back into it, and Im not pulling any stuff out, and things have also been deleted so its impossible. I dont care, I just didnt like being accused by some ppl of making stuff up or everything being some innocent joke from a 'friend' or 'brother christian'. Thats ....

And then what IS public might LOOK like a joke to you or others, (but me and the one 'joking' know better. They know whether theres hatred for me or not.) Where is the hand of friendship fellowship brotherhood, that for some strange reason you keep accusing ME of not extending, when I have, when its blatantly OTHERS that have not to me?

 

[MoreCoffee]

There are forum settings that cause new posts to be emailed to your email account. If you do not want the emails then turn the forum settings off. I do not receive emails when new posts arrive in CH because I turned the settings off years ago.

 

[popsthebuilder]

I couldn't help but notice that someone seems to consider faith to be ineffectual; as in not causing change in the believer. One doesn't do for salvation, but belief in something is living by it as if true. Anyone who denies that belief is conducive to particular behaviors in an individual is very confused as to what believing something entails.

All of scripture speaks of effectual faith causal to good works and the glorification of GOD. Works are even the means of which we are to know of the nature of one's belief or the lack there of. St. Paul speaks continually about being made righteous and holy through Christ. Is that synonymous with repentance ( change) or staying the same (sinful nature)?

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[MennoSota]

I couldn't help but notice that someone seems to consider faith to be ineffectual; as in not causing change in the believer. One doesn't do for salvation, but belief in something is living by it as if true. Anyone who denies that belief is conducive to particular behaviors in an individual is very confused as to what believing something entails.

All of scripture speaks of effectual faith causal to good works and the glorification of GOD. Works are even the means of which we are to know of the nature of one's belief or the lack there of. St. Paul speaks continually about being made righteous and holy through Christ. Is that synonymous with repentance ( change) or staying the same (sinful nature)?

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Let me attempt to summarize.
1) God gives faith.
2) Faith results in good works.
3) Good works glorify God.

Are those 3 things synonymous with repentance?

Answer: No

1) God's grace reveals our sin.
2) God the Holy Spirit convicts the Christian of sin.
3) The Christian makes a 180 turn away from sin and towards God.
Turning from sin toward God equals repentance. One of the best examples is found in 1 Thessalonians 1.
1 Thessalonians 1:8-9
[8]And now the word of the Lord is ringing out from you to people everywhere, even beyond Macedonia and Achaia, for wherever we go we find people telling us about your faith in God. We don’t need to tell them about it,
[9]for they keep talking about the wonderful welcome you gave us and how you turned away from idols to serve the living and true God.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Let me attempt to summarize.
1) God gives faith.
2) Faith results in good works.
3) Good works glorify God.

Are those 3 things synonymous with repentance?

Answer: No

1) God's grace reveals our sin.
2) God the Holy Spirit convicts the Christian of sin.
3) The Christian makes a 180 turn away from sin and towards God.
Turning from sin toward God equals repentance. One of the best examples is found in 1 Thessalonians 1.
1 Thessalonians 1:8-9
[8]And now the word of the Lord is ringing out from you to people everywhere, even beyond Macedonia and Achaia, for wherever we go we find people telling us about your faith in God. We don’t need to tell them about it,
[9]for they keep talking about the wonderful welcome you gave us and how you turned away from idols to serve the living and true God.

One can repent prior to even knowing GOD, however, faith brings about change in the believer. Shame leads to sorrow which leads to repentance.

All work one way or another.

Repentance and change are quite synonymous but that was not the point of my post.

The point was that change is not synonymous with staying the same.



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[MennoSota]

One can repent prior to even knowing GOD, however, faith brings about change in the believer. Shame leads to sorrow which leads to repentance.

All work one way or another.

Repentance and change are quite synonymous but that was not the point of my post.

The point was that change is not synonymous with staying the same.



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Sure. The Assyrians repented and God spared them for 100 years. That turn was spurned by fear, not by faith. Those whom God does not make alive in Christ can only repent in fear. They cannot repent in faith because God has not given them the gift of faith.

I did not get the last point from your earlier post. Sorry, I didn't see any statement to that effect.
You cannot stay static and change at the same time, therefore your statement is correct.

 

[user1234]

I couldn't help but notice that someone seems to consider faith to be ineffectual; as in not causing change in the believer. One doesn't do for salvation, but belief in something is living by it as if true. Anyone who denies that belief is conducive to particular behaviors in an individual is very confused as to what believing something entails.

All of scripture speaks of effectual faith causal to good works and the glorification of GOD. Works are even the means of which we are to know of the nature of one's belief or the lack there of. St. Paul speaks continually about being made righteous and holy through Christ. Is that synonymous with repentance ( change) or staying the same (sinful nature)?

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Hi pops
I just re-read the entire thread and cant find an example of someone who considers faith to be ineffectual. Maybe its not fair to ask who or which post, however, if you think its me, please dont hesitate to say so, Id be happy to look at any post that might give that impression, bc I can assure you, thats not my belief. There are clearly quite a few ppl here who believe in the absolute grace of God and salvation as a gift...nothing being required for us to do, nor CAN be, for us to be saved.

While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
We dont change our behavior or clean ourselves up, we believe in Christs finished work on our behalf, and we are saved. Done deal. osas :yikes: :spinningsmilie:Thats not ineffectual faith, thats faith that saves. And being saved from hell to being heaven-bound, transferred from darkness to light, is a pretty big effect.

After that is when changes in thought, word and deed might (should) begin to kick in, but that is mostly a private affair between the saved person and God.
Yes, we are saved UNTO good works...yes, we should walk in them...yes, we should let our light so shine that ppl would see our good works and glorify our Father in heaven.

(This btw, is what James was referring to about showing your faith by your works, it has nothing to do with salvation, in the sense that we're saved APART from works ... Of ANY kind.) It's the 'working out your salvation...' that seems to be so often misunderstood.
We dont work things out FOR our salvation, but we work OUTWARDLY the salvation we already possess inside.

But anyway, it may be that someone here really does believe that faith is ineffectual, and I missed their post(s).
I'd really like to know what post, though...not for condemnation in any way, (Im not about that, despite some ppl seeming to think so, lol), but just to see if I can pick up on what it is they said that implies faith is not effective.

I once heard it said something like ...
' God loves us so much that Jesus died to save us while we were still broken sinners.
He also loves us too much to leave us in that condition. ' (Let's pray)

Heavenly Father, Thank you so much for loving us and saving us, and thank you for loving us so much that you are growing us and conforming us into the image of Jesus Christ, in whos name we pray. Amen.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Hi pops
I just re-read the entire thread and cant find an example of someone who considers faith to be ineffectual. Maybe its not fair to ask who or which post, however, if you think its me, please dont hesitate to say so, Id be happy to look at any post that might give that impression, bc I can assure you, thats not my belief. There are clearly quite a few ppl here who believe in the absolute grace of God and salvation as a gift...nothing being required for us to do, nor CAN be, for us to be saved.

While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
We dont change our behavior or clean ourselves up, we believe in Christs finished work on our behalf, and we are saved. Done deal. osas :yikes: :spinningsmilie:Thats not ineffectual faith, thats faith that saves. And being saved from hell to being heaven-bound, transferred from darkness to light, is a pretty big effect.

After that is when changes in thought, word and deed might (should) begin to kick in, but that is mostly a private affair between the saved person and God.
Yes, we are saved UNTO good works...yes, we should walk in them...yes, we should let our light so shine that ppl would see our good works and glorify our Father in heaven.

(This btw, is what James was referring to about showing your faith by your works, it has nothing to do with salvation, in the sense that we're saved APART from works ... Of ANY kind.) It's the 'working out your salvation...' that seems to be so often misunderstood.
We dont work things out FOR our salvation, but we work OUTWARDLY the salvation we already possess inside.

But anyway, it may be that someone here really does believe that faith is ineffectual, and I missed their post(s).
I'd really like to know what post, though...not for condemnation in any way, (Im not about that, despite some ppl seeming to think so, lol), but just to see if I can pick up on what it is they said that implies faith is not effective.

I once heard it said something like ...
' God loves us so much that Jesus died to save us while we were still broken sinners.
He also loves us too much to leave us in that condition. ' (Let's pray)

Heavenly Father, Thank you so much for loving us and saving us, and thank you for loving us so much that you are growing us and conforming us into the image of Jesus Christ, in whos name we pray. Amen.

If everyone understands that belief is doing and faith is effectual then good. I myself may have misread someone's own words or looked too far into them.

If that is the case then I'm genuinely glad.

Following are the words I evidently misunderstood.

peace

(”works-righteous religious types HATE with a passion the gospel of the GRACE of God, thru FAITH alone in Jesus and cause others to preach against it even when they arent aware of it. They get sucked right into works w out even knowing it. Its a lie from the devil, and those that cause it are enemies of the cross.")

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[user1234]

If everyone understands that belief is doing and faith is effectual then good. I myself may have misread someone's own words or looked too far into them.

If that is the case then I'm genuinely glad.

Following are the words I evidently misunderstood.

peace

(”works-righteous religious types HATE with a passion the gospel of the GRACE of God, thru FAITH alone in Jesus and cause others to preach against it even when they arent aware of it. They get sucked right into works w out even knowing it. Its a lie from the devil, and those that cause it are enemies of the cross.")

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Ok, sure, no problem. next time though, ( instead of 'i couldnt help but notice someone...' ) you can talk to me...
Just say, Hey snerfle... I noticed in post#__ you said . . . etc., are you a moron?!

And I could go, Hey pops, yer crazy! (Lol, just kiddin!)

But no really, you or anyone can just feel free to ask me directly about a post, or PM if thats better (to avoid a derail sometimes.)
I'd actually much prefer that, than some of the indirect insinuations and implications that go on. Just talk to each other.
(But I know with some folks, if you do that, you risk being reported for flaming, which I think is code for being gay, idk, so everyones different) but I prefer the christian way of reasoning together and calling each other idiots until we come to the only sane solution and admit I'm right. YAY!
(thats a joke, too, see? :disgonbegood: I have to say that all the time now, or else...something...)

So anyways, what was the question?
Oh, right.
Believing is doing, you said? And faith is effectual?
Hmmm, yes and no, or rather no and yes.
Believing is believing ... Doing is doing.

When they asked Jesus, What must we DO to work the works of God, He answered, This is the work of God, that you BELIEVE on Him who He hath sent. (Jesus Himself)

He doesnt want us burdened with trying to work our way into His love, grace or salvation, (which we cant do anyhow) but He wants us to cease from self-effort, and rest and trust in Him...our salvation is secure in Him, that's amazing grace and love.

Religionists/works-righteousness types hate that, bc they are attempting to earn or at least, contribute to, their salvation, somehow, and figure everyone else should have to as well.
Like those that havent accepted or submitted to the righteousness of God, so they go around trying to establish their own.

Once saved, then works of faith may follow, but even then, its not to keep ourselves saved, or to boast, or because we have to, by religious rules. It's Thanksgiving! Merry Christmas!

 

[popsthebuilder]

Ok, sure, no problem. next time though, ( instead of 'i couldnt help but notice someone...' ) you can talk to me...
Just say, Hey snerfle... I noticed in post#__ you said . . . etc., are you a moron?!

And I could go, Hey pops, yer crazy! (Lol, just kiddin!)

But no really, you or anyone can just feel free to ask me directly about a post, or PM if thats better (to avoid a derail sometimes.)
I'd actually much prefer that, than some of the indirect insinuations and implications that go on. Just talk to each other.
(But I know with some folks, if you do that, you risk being reported for flaming, which I think is code for being gay, idk, so everyones different) but I prefer the christian way of reasoning together and calling each other idiots until we come to the only sane solution and admit I'm right. YAY!
(thats a joke, too, see? :disgonbegood: I have to say that all the time now, or else...something...)

So anyways, what was the question?
Oh, right.
Believing is doing, you said? And faith is effectual?
Hmmm, yes and no, or rather no and yes.
Believing is believing ... Doing is doing.

When they asked Jesus, What must we DO to work the works of God, He answered, This is the work of God, that you BELIEVE on Him who He hath sent. (Jesus Himself)

He doesnt want us burdened with trying to work our way into His love, grace or salvation, (which we cant do anyhow) but He wants us to cease from self-effort, and rest and trust in Him...our salvation is secure in Him, that's amazing grace and love.

Religionists/works-righteousness types hate that, bc they are attempting to earn or at least, contribute to, their salvation, somehow, and figure everyone else should have to as well.
Like those that havent accepted or submitted to the righteousness of God, so they go around trying to establish their own.

Once saved, then works of faith may follow, but even then, its not to keep ourselves saved, or to boast, or because we have to, by religious rules. It's Thanksgiving! Merry Christmas!

It was not my intent to seem passive agressive. I don't care for it myself. I worded it like that with the specific intent of not singling any one out. You are feisty and seem rather light hearted. These are good things.

If I believe I will die if I don't eat then I will eat which is an action which is doing.

If I witness someone I believe is in danger then I will do something about it because I believe it.

If I believe that there is but one Gospel and one people then I will spread this to the best of my ability, not set idly by as if I do not believe.

Believing is knowing within the context of faith. To have knowledge and not do anything with it is chaos and hypocrisy. We don't do to be saved we do because we believe in the salvation made available to us and it's effectual power.

If you would like to go into the scripture then I would be more than happy to.

Again; it was not my intent to single you out.

I look forward to further profitable conversation with you.

peace

friend
.....and Happy Thanksgiving. May we all be thankful for our life, experience, potential, and manifold blessings this day and every day.
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[popsthebuilder]

Ok, sure, no problem. next time though, ( instead of 'i couldnt help but notice someone...' ) you can talk to me...
Just say, Hey snerfle... I noticed in post#__ you said . . . etc., are you a moron?!

And I could go, Hey pops, yer crazy! (Lol, just kiddin!)

But no really, you or anyone can just feel free to ask me directly about a post, or PM if thats better (to avoid a derail sometimes.)
I'd actually much prefer that, than some of the indirect insinuations and implications that go on. Just talk to each other.
(But I know with some folks, if you do that, you risk being reported for flaming, which I think is code for being gay, idk, so everyones different) but I prefer the christian way of reasoning together and calling each other idiots until we come to the only sane solution and admit I'm right. YAY!
(thats a joke, too, see? :disgonbegood: I have to say that all the time now, or else...something...)

So anyways, what was the question?
Oh, right.
Believing is doing, you said? And faith is effectual?
Hmmm, yes and no, or rather no and yes.
Believing is believing ... Doing is doing.

When they asked Jesus, What must we DO to work the works of God, He answered, This is the work of God, that you BELIEVE on Him who He hath sent. (Jesus Himself)

He doesnt want us burdened with trying to work our way into His love, grace or salvation, (which we cant do anyhow) but He wants us to cease from self-effort, and rest and trust in Him...our salvation is secure in Him, that's amazing grace and love.

Religionists/works-righteousness types hate that, bc they are attempting to earn or at least, contribute to, their salvation, somehow, and figure everyone else should have to as well.
Like those that havent accepted or submitted to the righteousness of God, so they go around trying to establish their own.

Once saved, then works of faith may follow, but even then, its not to keep ourselves saved, or to boast, or because we have to, by religious rules. It's Thanksgiving! Merry Christmas!

We are told we will be burdened and that we are to work out our salvation with fear and trembling, not comfortable vain assurance.



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[user1234]

We are told we will be burdened and that we are to work out our salvation with fear and trembling, not comfortable vain assurance.



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Jesus' said His yoke is easy and His burden is light.
I see no vain assurance in trusting the Lord Jesus Christ for His GIFT of salvation.
Assurance, yes. Not vanity. Faith comes by hearing, hearing by the word of God.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Jesus' said His yoke is easy and His burden is light.
I see no vain assurance in trusting the Lord Jesus Christ for His GIFT of salvation.
Assurance, yes. Not vanity. Faith comes by hearing, hearing by the word of God.

A light burden is a burden nonetheless.

There is a difference in being assured or reassured of a thing and being blindly confident about a thing.

The burden is light for those who love GOD. That is not synonymous with comfort or lack of burden what so ever..

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