What do you look for in a church?

[Albion]

I'd say that that would present even one more consideration for anyone dealing with this issue.

 

[Josiah]

....what if the local parish is straight arrow but the denomination is far gone from right teaching? Should the parishioner forgive the national church or put it out of his mind as not affecting him locally? IMO this is a real issue that has confronted many a church member. Or should he leave for another denomination?

MY reaction is that I'D put most of the emphasis on the parish. For example, I know there are (a few) ELCA churches that have solid doctrine and disagree with their denomination at some points. But... still..... I'd question why they are remaining.

ILLUSTRATION: In my former life, I had a girlfriend who was ELCA (the parish had once been a very conservative ALC church but the ALC and LCA merged in 1988 and the libs took over). Anyway, their long-time pastor was quite conservative (and very good). They stayed in the ELCA in order to help "steer it back." I 'get' it. That's the flip side. But eventually....

What I think we are witnessing is that a lot of sound parishes in bad denominations ARE leaving. I'm not talking any huge exodus but it is happening. ELCA parishes going to a new denomination (very few going LCMS), some Episcopal churches going Anglican and associating with other national churches. Some just going independent (there's a former ELCA church near me that's done that, it now belongs to no denomination at all). What makes this hard is that a lot of these now liberal denominations OWN their local parishes, making it financially very hard to leave.



- Josiah

 

[Albion]

I try not to judge anyone who stays in a liberal denomination on the basis that the local congregation "isn't like that!"

The problem for many people caught up in that kind of situation is that to belong to an affiliated congregation or parish, you have to help finance the national church's errors and you subject yourself to all the clap-trap that comes to you in the church's national publications, national convention resolutions, communications, etc. Plus everything that your neighbor reads about the national organization and assumes, logically enough, that it applies to the local unit.

The Episcopal Church provides possibly the classic example, but the ELCA and, more recently, the Presbyterian Church USA do also. Even if the individual does a good job of putting most of that out of his mind, there are still plenty of occasions in which something outrageous coming down from the national church has to be dealt with mentally. Obviously, a lot of people find that wearisome and a distraction, to say the least.

 

[NewCreation435]

MY reaction is that I'D put most of the emphasis on the parish. For example, I know there are (a few) ELCA churches that have solid doctrine and disagree with their denomination at some points. But... still..... I'd question why they are remaining.

ILLUSTRATION: In my former life, I had a girlfriend who was ELCA (the parish had once been a very conservative ALC church but the ALC and LCA merged in 1988 and the libs took over). Anyway, their long-time pastor was quite conservative (and very good). They stayed in the ELCA in order to help "steer it back." I 'get' it. That's the flip side. But eventually....

What I think we are witnessing is that a lot of sound parishes in bad denominations ARE leaving. I'm not talking any huge exodus but it is happening. ELCA parishes going to a new denomination (very few going LCMS), some Episcopal churches going Anglican and associating with other national churches. Some just going independent (there's a former ELCA church near me that's done that, it now belongs to no denomination at all). What makes this hard is that a lot of these now liberal denominations OWN their local parishes, making it financially very hard to leave.



- Josiah

yes, I was wondering about that. How many local parishes actually own their own land and building. If they do leave, they have to decide who they are going to join with and that could start a lot of infighting all by itself. It really puts the local parish in a difficult position

 

[Imalive]

I have been attending a church for the last two or three months and am trying to decide if I should stay or go. It is non denominational, which is different than Baptist which I have been for the last 30 years. There are some things I like about it. They have contemporary music and interesting sermons (most of the time).

What do you look for when your looking for a church home?

What would make you leave a church?

God
God has to be there. People set free from demons. Prayer. Vision to save the city. Worship. Good teaching to make you a harvester, practical.

 

[Albion]

yes, I was wondering about that. How many local parishes actually own their own land and building. If they do leave, they have to decide who they are going to join with and that could start a lot of infighting all by itself. It really puts the local parish in a difficult position

Local churches that are contemplating leaving the national organization almost never do so on the spur of the moment but have held meetings, votes, and all of that, including scoping out the other church bodies that might be good to join instead. Usually, there isn't much infighting because the parish already has developed a profile, having for years taken various stands on doctrine or practice, heard the pastor preach a certain POV, etc. Potential joiners who hold a contrary view to the parish's beliefs most often have found an alternate home church, especially if there's another of the same denomination in town.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Gruzinkerbell would be a most amusing find in church

:smirk:

 

[NewCreation435]

Local churches that are contemplating leaving the national organization almost never do so on the spur of the moment but have held meetings, votes, and all of that, including scoping out the other church bodies that might be good to join instead. Usually, there isn't much infighting because the parish already has developed a profile, having for years taken various stands on doctrine or practice, heard the pastor preach a certain POV, etc. Potential joiners who hold a contrary view to the parish's beliefs most often have found an alternate home church, especially if there's another of the same denomination in town.

Yes, I wouldn't think that would happe in a spur of a moment. I would think it might impact issues such as ordaination of the pastor as well possibly? The church I attend now is nondenominational and isn't a part of a national body

 

[MennoSota]

I consider Reformed theology to be the most accurate understanding in regard to soteriology. A church must understand and teach the Sovereign rule of God over all things. A church must teach the utter fallenness of the human condition, expressing the utter dependence upon God's grace to make a person right with God.
Every part of the service must be God-centered. Lyrics matter. Songs must point to the greatness of God and the utter wretchedness of the human condition.
I accept that fallen sinners, like me, will be filling the pews. I accept that this means broken people will be sitting all around me. I rejoice in God's grace, which takes us wretched sinners and makes us capable of honoring God as we worship.
I would leave a church that glories in human experience. I would leave a church that focuses on psychology through scripture. I would leave a church that teaches self-esteem techniques.
God first, God always.

 

[NewCreation435]

I consider Reformed theology to be the most accurate understanding in regard to soteriology. A church must understand and teach the Sovereign rule of God over all things. A church must teach the utter fallenness of the human condition, expressing the utter dependence upon God's grace to make a person right with God.
Every part of the service must be God-centered. Lyrics matter. Songs must point to the greatness of God and the utter wretchedness of the human condition.
I accept that fallen sinners, like me, will be filling the pews. I accept that this means broken people will be sitting all around me. I rejoice in God's grace, which takes us wretched sinners and makes us capable of honoring God as we worship.
I would leave a church that glories in human experience. I would leave a church that focuses on psychology through scripture. I would leave a church that teaches self-esteem techniques.
God first, God always.

I would agree with you that lyrics matter. I would also agree that there is too much pop psychology being taught in the pulpits today instead of preaching God's Word. I want to go and get a message that honors God, instills hope and focuses on His good news of redemption.

 

[MennoSota]

I would agree with you that lyrics matter. I would also agree that there is too much pop psychology being taught in the pulpits today instead of preaching God's Word. I want to go and get a message that honors God, instills hope and focuses on His good news of redemption.

Agreed.
I'm not sure what you define as instilling hope. I think the only hope one can instill is in Christ alone. There is no hope in any other. This is what I am pointing at when I refer to psycho-babel in the church. Too many times do I hear a pastor attempt to be "relevant" by focusing on symptoms of the disease rather than the actual disease, which is our corrupt spirit.

 

[NewCreation435]

Agreed.
I'm not sure what you define as instilling hope. I think the only hope one can instill is in Christ alone. There is no hope in any other. This is what I am pointing at when I refer to psycho-babel in the church. Too many times do I hear a pastor attempt to be "relevant" by focusing on symptoms of the disease rather than the actual disease, which is our corrupt spirit.

When I say instill hope I mean a message that encourages me. When Paul was in prison and writing the Philippian letter he repeatedly said to rejoice in the Lord. He could do this regardless of the circumstances. We can't rejoice in our circumstances at times because they change all the time. But, God does not change. His character never changes. His love and forgiveness never change. When we focus on that there can be joy despite our circumstances. I need that type of message because there is enough stuff in this world that brings me down and is depressing.

 

[MennoSota]

When I say instill hope I mean a message that encourages me. When Paul was in prison and writing the Philippian letter he repeatedly said to rejoice in the Lord. He could do this regardless of the circumstances. We can't rejoice in our circumstances at times because they change all the time. But, God does not change. His character never changes. His love and forgiveness never change. When we focus on that there can be joy despite our circumstances. I need that type of message because there is enough stuff in this world that brings me down and is depressing.

This is what I mean when I state we need to claim our position in Christ. It is our spiritual worship when we recall our glorious position before the throne of God.
Though we may be walking through the deep valley, we can realize hope in the valley because we are adopted children of the Sovereign King.

 

[pinacled]

I have been attending a church for the last two or three months and am trying to decide if I should stay or go. It is non denominational, which is different than Baptist which I have been for the last 30 years. There are some things I like about it. They have contemporary music and interesting sermons (most of the time).

What do you look for when your looking for a church home?

What would make you leave a church?

The Holy Spirit for one.

But even the churches have moles in place these days.
And if a sermon is given that blasphemies in lying about the scriptures.

I dust my feet.

Unfortunately the mark of the beast is prevalent.

 

[NewCreation435]

The Holy Spirit for one.

But even the churches have moles in place these days.
And if a sermon is given that blasphemies in lying about the scriptures.

I dust my feet.

Unfortunately the mark of the beast is prevalent.

That's true. There are a lot of problems in the church today. And not everyone who calls themselves a christian is one really

 

[pinacled]

That's true. There are a lot of problems in the church today. And not everyone who calls themselves a christian is one really

I havent dwelt on those experiences. Yet it is the Truth that needs to be said in the circumstance of context.

A blessing of instruction i once learned of with experience.
Is to heed from bringing your sword against a stone.

The hardness of their hearts will not yield to the good seed.
Seeking the good soil with each progressing generation is best.

‘I tell you that everyone who has will be given more; but the one who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 27And these enemies of mine who were unwilling for me to rule over them, bring them here and slay them in front of me.’”

28After Jesus had said this, He went on ahead, going up to Jerusalem.…

 

[J.Money]

I have been attending a church for the last two or three months and am trying to decide if I should stay or go. It is non denominational, which is different than Baptist which I have been for the last 30 years. There are some things I like about it. They have contemporary music and interesting sermons (most of the time).

What do you look for when your looking for a church home?

What would make you leave a church?

What I look for is Leadership that cares about the people coming in. If the pastor or volunteers (if it's a larger church) take the time to get to know you that's a plus.

I look for educational qualifications of the leadership. Not all schools are the same, but if they've pursued at least a college degree in ministry or biblical studies and/or done advanced work it shows me that at least they've spent some time dealing with the text and know more or less how to handle certain issues that may arise.

Last I look for a church that will challenge me and what I believe. If I go to a church that preaches exactly what I want to hear it may not be the best fit. Becoming too comfortable could mean getting to complacent with faith. I want to grow deeper and sometimes that means hearing things that make me think and challenge what I previously thought.

Good music and production is a plus, but the first three items are most important.

Deal breakers are churches that are pretty much the opposite of that. Or churches that give political sermons on either the political left or right. Politics has not place in the pulpit in my opinion, those conversations should take place in a one on one setting or with a small group outside of the sermon.

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[MennoSota]

The Holy Spirit for one.

But even the churches have moles in place these days.
And if a sermon is given that blasphemies in lying about the scriptures.

I dust my feet.

Unfortunately the mark of the beast is prevalent.

Do you mean that there are wolves in the church among the sheep?If so, yes.
If you mean that the spirit of anti-christ is leading some churches and some denominations, then yes, this is true.
The question is, are you sure you are rightly discerning the word of God? Are you sure you are in step with the Spirit of God?

 

[MennoSota]

What I look for is Leadership that cares about the people coming in. If the pastor or volunteers (if it's a larger church) take the time to get to know you that's a plus.

I look for educational qualifications of the leadership. Not all schools are the same, but if they've pursued at least a college degree in ministry or biblical studies and/or done advanced work it shows me that at least they've spent some time dealing with the text and know more or less how to handle certain issues that may arise.

Last I look for a church that will challenge me and what I believe. If I go to a church that preaches exactly what I want to hear it may not be the best fit. Becoming too comfortable could mean getting to complacent with faith. I want to grow deeper and sometimes that means hearing things that make me think and challenge what I previously thought.

Good music and production is a plus, but the first three items are most important.

Deal breakers are churches that are pretty much the opposite of that. Or churches that give political sermons on either the political left or right. Politics has not place in the pulpit in my opinion, those conversations should take place in a one on one setting or with a small group outside of the sermon.

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Your first paragraph is interesting simply because cults excel in this first category. (I am not saying you are choosing a cult.)

How important is theology for you?

 

[J.Money]

Your first paragraph is interesting simply because cults excel in this first category. (I am not saying you are choosing a cult.)

How important is theology for you?

Theology is important if we are defining theology as the study of God. Churches that are too concerned with doctrine and not concerned enough with the metanarrative of scripture are churches I would disagree with.

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