What is worship?

[popsthebuilder]

I'll stick with Romans 12:1, in context, and recognize the much bigger picture, which you seem to be missing.

Please tell me this obvious big picture....

 

[MennoSota]

Does scripture not say we are members of spiritual Israel?

Yes, which is why Romans 12:1 fits with my view that outside of Christ our sacrifice is wretched and worthless. There is nothing holy about us that we can offer to God.
In Christ, however, everything is a holy offering.
This isn't hard, yet you seem to be struggling with this.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Yes, which is why Romans 12:1 fits with my view that outside of Christ our sacrifice is wretched and worthless. There is nothing holy about us that we can offer to God.
In Christ, however, everything is a holy offering.
This isn't hard, yet you seem to be struggling with this.

Not at all

 

[MennoSota]

So..... Uhm......being make righteous isn't actually being made righteous; kinda like we aren't actually Israel?

You're confused. I can't help reduce your confusion

 

[MennoSota]

Not at all

Yet you persist in a silly game.

 

[MoreCoffee]

What's all the fighting about. The thread is about worship is it not? Romans 12:1 gives a working definition of worship. "spiritual worship" to be precise. It means to present your bodied as a living sacrifice that is holy and acceptable to God.

 

[Andrew]

Religious people generally have a hard time keeping things simple, its always scriptural warfare with you guys lol
Worship is lifting up your hands and rejoicing, praising the Lord in the good news, nothing less nothing more... and here come the bombs

 

[MoreCoffee]

Religious people generally have a hard time keeping things simple, its always scriptural warfare with you guys lol
Worship is lifting up your hands and rejoicing, praising the Lord in the good news, nothing less nothing more... and here come the bombs

As much as you may not like it you are a religious person yourself.

 

[Andrew]

As much as you may not like it you are a religious person yourself.

And so I am howbeit more spirited to worship rather than philosophical and theologically spear headed I suppose. In this subject at least lol
I do however light candles sometimes which according to menosota is "pagan and demonic" go figure

 

[MoreCoffee]

And so I am howbeit more spirited to worship rather than philosophical and theologically spear headed I suppose. In this subject at least lol
I do however light candles sometimes which according to menosota is "pagan and demonic" go figure

OH well, not much can be done about those prejudices. Personally, I think of a lit candle as a light in the darkness that drives away the darkness for a while.

 

[Andrew]

OH well, not much can be done about those prejudices. Personally, I think of a lit candle as a light in the darkness that drives away the darkness for a while.

Kind of like the seven lit candles or Menorah that represent the churches?
Makes you think, for each one Jesus snuffs out the more darkness gathers in its place, I dont know where I am going with this but yes I agree with your analogy.

 

[MennoSota]

And so I am howbeit more spirited to worship rather than philosophical and theologically spear headed I suppose. In this subject at least lol
I do however light candles sometimes which according to menosota is "pagan and demonic" go figure

LOL
If a person has no arms to lift up, can they worship? If a person has no hearing and only speaks American Sign Language, can they speak in tongues and be filled with the Spirit?
If you need a different smell in your bathroom can you light a scented candle?

I think Jonathan Edwards "Religious Affections" is a must read for you.

 

[Andrew]

LOL
If a person has no arms to lift up, can they worship? If a person has no hearing and only speaks American Sign Language, can they speak in tongues and be filled with the Spirit?
If you need a different smell in your bathroom can you light a scented candle?

I think Jonathan Edwards "Religious Affections" is a must read for you.

A guy that goes to our church was in a gang in his younger days and had his tongue cut out and he started speaking in tongues

There is a christian man that is on TV sometimes and he is just a torso but he can rejoice and praise God, I can see his spirit is his arms in that case. They will be able to praise with new arms in Heaven

 

[MoreCoffee]

...
I think Jonathan Edwards "Religious Affections" is a must read for you.

Edwards is difficult reading. His language is weird. Besides he seems to be rather extreme - delighting in the suffering of the wicked is a Hallmark of his sermon Sinners in the hands of an angry God. But he is not alone in having extreme views. five hundred years before him saint Thomas Aquinas also remarked on the pleasures of the redeemed in heaven among which was the contemplation of the suffering of the wicked in hell. I suppose religion has always had the power to bring out the worst in people who were minded to let it.

 

[MennoSota]

Edwards is difficult reading. His language is weird. Besides he seems to be rather extreme - delighting in the suffering of the wicked is a Hallmark of his sermon Sinners in the hands of an angry God. But he is not alone in having extreme views. five hundred years before him saint Thomas Aquinas also remarked on the pleasures of the redeemed in heaven among which was the contemplation of the suffering of the wicked in hell. I suppose religion has always had the power to bring out the worst in people who were minded to let it.

Edwards is easily the greatest theologian North America has ever produced.
His theology is not extreme. It is on point, focusing on God's word. Edwards, like the other Reformers recognized that much of what Augustine taught was solid since Augustine understood the supremacy of a Sovereign God who is holy and human beings who are utterly sinful.
Ultimately, Edwards, like Augustine, Hus, Luther, Calvin, Wycliffe, Owens, Bunyan, Spurgeon, Piper, Begg, Sproul and many others let the scriptures dictate the truth rather than make up tradition and force scripture to fir the tradition.
No, the extreme is the forcing that the RC does on scripture despite context.

 

[Andrew]

btw I got that Mounce book you refered, im more of a short book reader I usually never find time for lengthy books only the bible.
I'll read some here and there.
"An Expose of the Seven Church Ages" by branham is a good short book I got at the same time. Already 1/3 in it lol.
But I do refer to you "Now are ye the Sons of God" by D.G. Hanscomb, its like 14$ at Amazon and well worth it, you can read it all in about an hour or so but he specifically digs into the differences between Sons of Man and Sons of God and the importance of the rebirth experience before you can get into the Kingdom of Heaven...
He also gets into the Trinity doctrines, Martin luther and John Calvin and the horrifying deaths demanded by the church of Oneness martyrs... But like i said its a good quick read with a bunch of scriptures qoutes so thats fun
This was the guy that rocked out the Catholic in me and posted a rant on him, listening to his tapes of the revival its not what i remembered and have since givin him much respect, he was studying for priesthood in the Catholic church but began becoming confused with its contradictions and he prayed to the lord and finally got an answer, he heard him behind him an angel telling him not to take these vows and guided him to an apostolic church we had full rebirth etc.. Interesting book worded simple

 

[MoreCoffee]

...
Ultimately, Edwards, ..., Hus, Luther, Calvin, Wycliffe, Owens, Bunyan, Spurgeon, Piper, Begg, Sproul and many others ...

Ultimately Edwards, ..., Hus, Luther, Calvin, Wycliffe, Owens, Bunyan, Spurgeon, Piper, ..., Sproul were and are error prone in their theology.

 

[MennoSota]

Ultimately Edwards, ..., Hus, Luther, Calvin, Wycliffe, Owens, Bunyan, Spurgeon, Piper, ..., Sproul were and are error prone in their theology.

MC, I know you blindly follow a flawed church full of theological error. You can't admit it, but history shows the errors and the flawed "traditions" that are propped up by misused scripture taken out of context. There are millions upon millions of people in hell because they were lead there by your church. This should make you weep for your church and seek reformation and reunion to the teaching in scripture above and over the RCs faulty traditions. Why do you not speak up against such human corruption in your church?

 

[MoreCoffee]

MC, I know you blindly follow

Please stop the smarmy insults. You know nothing of the sort. You are merely taking an opportunity to be insulting.

...

 

[MennoSota]

Please stop the smarmy insults. You know nothing of the sort. You are merely taking an opportunity to be insulting.

You belittle theologians who honor the scriptures and then take exception when I belittle the poor theology of the RC?
Your church has lifted up its unsubstantiated traditions and abused the study of scripture to force tradition on the masses. That is fact, shown by 1500 years of history.
The insult is your rejection of solid theological study because you cling to sketchy tradition.