Sinners Prayer in the Bible?

[Lamb]

Yes, but the ability to believe the promise came through God giving the gift of faith.

Exactly. Faith is given and any positive response after that is only because God first worked within us.

 

[Imalive]

It doesn't come from Calvin.

We don't find the sinners prayer in the Bible.

There is no contradiction regarding God’s word. There is no contradiction that the work of adoption is all God's work and nothing of ours.
Please show from scripture how humans generate their own faith by their own will. I will wait for your presentation.

The things they pray are in the Bible at least w the one I know.
Nope cuz they dont and I don't know anyone who believes that.

 

[NewCreation435]

Thanks for the suggestion. This is not about liking or disliking (it's not about feelings), this is about biblical truth versus non-biblical teaching. I cannot stay silent when false teaching is promoted as truth.

I understand your feelings, but there is a time when you have stated your views and the other person disagrees and no amount of discussion is going to change things. I do appreciate your convictions though

 

[MennoSota]

The things they pray are in the Bible at least w the one I know.
Nope cuz they dont and I don't know anyone who believes that.

Your response here shows two things.
First, your knowledge of the Bible is very limited so you rely on experience to be your truth.
Second, you have no desire to study the Bible because you imagine your experience validates your belief.

Honestly, I doubt you could tell the difference between a Christian church and a cult that labels itself as Christian. The biggest problem is that you won't even look at the Bible to discern the truth. That is a pity because you seem like a caring person otherwise.

 

[Imalive]

Your response here shows two things.
First, your knowledge of the Bible is very limited so you rely on experience to be your truth.
Second, you have no desire to study the Bible because you imagine your experience validates your belief.

Honestly, I doubt you could tell the difference between a Christian church and a cult that labels itself as Christian. The biggest problem is that you won't even look at the Bible to discern the truth. That is a pity because you seem like a caring person otherwise.

You just dont read what I write and I admit I didn't read properly what you wrote. I thought you rejected the sinners prayer. For the rest I agree. God choses. But the thing is if they only emphasize that and dont encourage ppl to come to repentance ( Acts 17:30
30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent) ppl apathically wait til God one day decides to save em.

 

[MennoSota]

You just dont read what I write and I admit I didn't read properly what you wrote. I thought you rejected the sinners prayer. For the rest I agree. God choses. But the thing is if they only emphasize that and dont encourage ppl to come to repentance ( Acts 17:30
30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent) ppl apathically wait til God one day decides to save em.

That's a great passage in Acts 17 when Paul speaks at Athens. Reading the passage we see that repentance does not save. We see that salvation is from God alone. Repentance is making a 180 degree turn away from sin. Notice in the passage that God, the Lord of heaven and earth, is the one who saves rebels. Others are left in their rebellion.

The passage is all about God's Sovereignty over rebellious nations and peoples. It is about God's work in reconciling humans.

Notice the reactions.

Acts of the Apostles 17:24-33
[24]“He is the God who made the world and everything in it. Since he is Lord of heaven and earth, he doesn’t live in man-made temples,
[25]and human hands can’t serve his needs—for he has no needs. He himself gives life and breath to everything, and he satisfies every need.
[26]From one man he created all the nations throughout the whole earth. He decided beforehand when they should rise and fall, and he determined their boundaries.
[27]“His purpose was for the nations to seek after God and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him—though he is not far from any one of us.
[28]For in him we live and move and exist. As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’
[29]And since this is true, we shouldn’t think of God as an idol designed by craftsmen from gold or silver or stone.
[30]“God overlooked people’s ignorance about these things in earlier times, but now he commands everyone everywhere to repent of their sins and turn to him.
[31]For he has set a day for judging the world with justice by the man he has appointed, and he proved to everyone who this is by raising him from the dead.”
[32]When they heard Paul speak about the resurrection of the dead, some laughed in contempt, but others said, “We want to hear more about this later.”
[33]That ended Paul’s discussion with them,

 

[TurtleHare]

I hear people talk about the sinners prayer, but I don't find it anywhere in the Bible.

Is the use of a very recent, canned script prayer, of any value in God's salvation of the body, soul and spirit of a person?

Nope, there ain't one instance of a disciple or apostle telling the crowds that they have to pray a sinners prayer before God can save them but they will speak highly of Jesus the savior who died for them. Nor is there any asking Jesus into their hearts or any of that other nonsense before God can manage to do what God does and if we think He needs our permission or help then we're full of it because that isn't what the bible teaches.

 

[Albion]

”Is the use of a very recent, canned script prayer, of any value in God's salvation of the body, soul and spirit of a person?”

It can be. Many people are not very good at expressing their feelings and using words well. That's all that the so-called Sinners Prayer is--a help offered to the person who wants to make a commitment to Christ after having heard the appeal of an Evangelist, Pastor, or the like. The words are not the only ones that can be used, and the person is not prohibited from using his own, if he has a mind to do that. Besides, all the sentiments are in the Bible; its just the exact arrangement found in the Sinners Prayer that isnt.

But the idea that this prayer is somehow invalid is silly. After all, Christ himself, when asked by his close followers how they should pray DID NOT just reply, ”Say whatever you think best, just wing it!" He gave them the Lord's Prayer and none of us thinks that it's wrong for us to repeat it verbatim.

 

[MennoSota]

”Is the use of a very recent, canned script prayer, of any value in God's salvation of the body, soul and spirit of a person?”

It can be. Many people are not very good at expressing their feelings and using words well. That's all that the so-called Sinners Prayer is--a help offered to the person who wants to make a commitment to Christ after having heard the appeal of an Evangelist, Pastor, or the like. The words are not the only ones that can be used, and the person is not prohibited from using his own, if he has a mind to do that. Besides, all the sentiments are in the Bible; its just the exact arrangement found in the Sinners Prayer that isnt.

But the idea that this prayer is somehow invalid is silly. After all, Christ himself, when asked by his close followers how they should pray DID NOT just reply, ”Say whatever you think best, just wing it!" He gave them the Lord's Prayer and none of us thinks that it's wrong for us to repeat it verbatim.

Our Savior showed us a Godward prayer. "Our Father, which art in heaven. Hallowed be thy name. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven."
Only after looking Godward do we see any asking.
I am not against explaining how we pray to God. I am against any teaching that a prayer saves you. Such a teaching is not supported in scripture.

 

[Albion]

I thought you rejected the sinners prayer. For the rest I agree. God choses. But the thing is if they only emphasize that and dont encourage ppl to come to repentance

Our Savior showed us a Godward prayer. "Our Father, which art in heaven. Hallowed be thy name. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven."
Only after looking Godward do we see any asking.
I am not against explaining how we pray to God. I am against any teaching that a prayer saves you. Such a teaching is not supported in scripture.

Have we established that the churches and ministries that utilize the Sinners Prayer, Altar Calls, and so on believe that reciting the words will save the person, to the exclusion of contrition and conversion??

 

[MennoSota]

Have we established that the churches and ministries that utilize the Sinners Prayer, Altar Calls, and so on believe that reciting the words will save the person, to the exclusion of contrition and conversion??

I can speak to a church I once attended where the pastor stated that even if there was no change in a person's lifestyle, because s/he said the prayer, God would honor that by granting eternal life. Because of this belief, the church was filled with people weighted down with sin and addiction. The worship leader was a cocaine user/addict whom the pastor refused to discipline because the person needed "love and support" rather than discipline. The pastor claimed that the worship leader might kill themselves if the leader couldn't lead praise.
I left because there was no one in church leadership willing to enforce church discipline.
That church is a mainline denomination.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

Have we established that the churches and ministries that utilize the Sinners Prayer, Altar Calls, and so on believe that reciting the words will save the person, to the exclusion of contrition and conversion??

Afaik, contrition is not excluded (in fact, it is a requirement in those churches), but conversion and the salvic act are dependent on the prayer, thus showing the person's intent. If I'm wrong on this (I could be), then I'd be interested to hear why.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Say the magic words and some say you are saved for all eternity and it can't ever be undone!

:groupheads:

 

[Josiah]

Say the magic words and some say you are saved

:groupheads:

Our Catholic teachers told us that salvation is COOPERATIVE process where we must say and do certain things before God will give this to us.... you know, what you are now mocking. I came to mock this Catholic view just as you do. It's not one of the reasons I left your denomination (because frankly, I didn't realize the absurdity of what we were taught, I didn't yet mock it as you do) but now that I realize it, it's one of the reasons I'd never return.

 

[Albion]

Afaik, contrition is not excluded (in fact, it is a requirement in those churches), but conversion and the salvic act are dependent on the prayer, thus showing the person's intent. If I'm wrong on this (I could be), then I'd be interested to hear why.

As you can see from the above posts that I quoted from, the suggestion was made that the Sinners Prayer itself will save a person. I do not think that people/churches/evangelists/etc who deal in the Sinners Prayer think that it does!

So I asked the question. In other words, are the folks who are ridiculing the use of the Sinners Prayer misrepresenting what it is all about? I think so. And if you agree to that, you and I are on the same side with this.

 

[Albion]

I can speak to a church I once attended where the pastor stated that even if there was no change in a person's lifestyle, because s/he said the prayer, God would honor that by granting eternal life. Because of this belief, the church was filled with people weighted down with sin and addiction. The worship leader was a cocaine user/addict whom the pastor refused to discipline because the person needed "love and support" rather than discipline. The pastor claimed that the worship leader might kill themselves if the leader couldn't lead praise.
I left because there was no one in church leadership willing to enforce church discipline.
That church is a mainline denomination.

Well, we know that there is an exception to almost everything...somewhere. Or else there was a misunderstanding. But I am confident that, normally, the Sinners Prayer is used with people who have repented, made a commitment to Christ, and determined to live a new life. The Prayer is simply part of the package.

 

[MennoSota]

Well, we know that there is an exception to almost everything...somewhere. Or else there was a misunderstanding. But I am confident that, normally, the Sinners Prayer is used with people who have repented, made a commitment to Christ, and determined to live a new life. The Prayer is simply part of the package.

Do you see all the works you ascribe to humans in God's salvation?
People...
1) Repent
2) Commit
3) Determine
All three are works of men, which eliminates grace from the equation.
Instead, I argue that all three actions come after God's giving a person his/her adoption papers. They are effects of the cause. The cause being entirely God's gracious work of choosing to redeem a sinner.
You might ask, "Why then do we preach if God is doing the work? The answer is: God commands us to do so. That is enough. The King gives us a task. The servants obey. It's that simple.

 

[Albion]

Do you see all the works you ascribe to humans in God's salvation?
People...
1) Repent
2) Commit
3) Determine
All three are works of men, which eliminates grace from the equation.

Instead, I argue that all three actions come after God's giving a person his/her adoption papers. They are effects of the cause. The cause being entirely God's gracious work of choosing to redeem a sinner.

Very well, but nothing that's been said heretofore rules that out.

You might ask, "Why then do we preach if God is doing the work? The answer is: God commands us to do so. That is enough. The King gives us a task. The servants obey. It's that simple.

...and using the Sinners Prayer is one way of doing that. BTW, my own church never engages in any of this, so I am simply hoping that the arguments on either side are free of misrepresentations or strawmen (both of which have already occurred).

 

[Josiah]

IMO, when it's "it's grace, BUT first you gotta....." then it's not grace. YOU paid for it - with the incredibly cheap price of saying some words or helping enough little ole' ladies across the street or whatever (all amazingly cheap tickets).

I look at it this way: Who is the Savior? If it's Jesus, then it's not you. If it's you, then it's not Jesus.

It's not "The Sinner's Prayer" per se that bothers me.... it's the sense that THAT'S what determines salvation/justification, that I save self by chanting some words (kind of makes a mockery of Jesus and the Cross..... and of Christianity). Now, once made alive..... THEN there's LOTS we are called to do! But dead people don't have to do those in order to make themselves alive. Ephesians 2:1-10.

 

[Lamb]

Well, we know that there is an exception to almost everything...somewhere. Or else there was a misunderstanding. But I am confident that, normally, the Sinners Prayer is used with people who have repented, made a commitment to Christ, and determined to live a new life. The Prayer is simply part of the package.

The prayer does nothing though to earn or receive salvation which was won at the cross for us. It's the Gospel that brings that good news to us, faith comes by hearing the word of God. Any prayer said is done by faith...which means that the prayer DID NOTHING since faith was already given. I've seen a lot of people on forums claim that it was the prayer that saved them instead of putting their focus on the Savior who saves.