"Holy Laughter"

[Andrew]

Wow. What a tidy but "on-target" explanation of what the neo-Pentecostal movement is all about.

Wow what's neo-pentecostal?

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[MennoSota]

I agree with your first two lines. Would you like to elaborate on the last one? Otherwise what you've done is express an opinion with no reasoning to explain why you hold it.

The holy laughter movement is full of confusion. God never brings chaos unless it is to bring judgment as we see in his dealing with the enemies of Israel. It is very easy to discern that the holy laughter movement is at best human created and at worst demonic manipulation.

 

[Andrew]

The holy laughter movement is full of confusion. God never brings chaos unless it is to bring judgment as we see in his dealing with the enemies of Israel. It is very easy to discern that the holy laughter movement is at best human created and at worst demonic manipulation.

May I ask you in which form you rejoice?
Do you lift up your hands or anything as such? If not, how should one rejoice?

 

[MennoSota]

May I ask you in which form you rejoice?
Do you lift up your hands or anything as such? If not, how should one rejoice?

Intelligently as God made me to rejoice.
You seem to imagine I disprove of expressing praise. That is far from reality. God gives us clear minds and a rejoicing heart. He does not cast us into mass confusion and dispossession of our senses. That kind of take over of the body is demonic.

 

[Andrew]

Intelligently as God made me to rejoice.
You seem to imagine I disprove of expressing praise. That is far from reality. God gives us clear minds and a rejoicing heart. He does not cast us into mass confusion and dispossession of our senses. That kind of take over of the body is demonic.

So you are just content and thats it? Thats how you rejoice?

 

[tango]

I was just saying that the reason this is "weird" is because its grown adults, however if I remember in elementary school the whole classroom including the teacher having laughing fits, hence become as youth again. Perhaps to ease your mind you could use your stern adult mind and tell this people that laughing is ok but not to worship, tell em its heresy because Almighty God is not the author of joy but of heresy charges and repetitive rituals and traditions. Why do you care? Unless you go on a crusade to defeat them you are only judging others.
Oh but now thats postmodernism
Whats modernism? The acceptance from other men to fit the norm and anything outside of it is some demonic agenda?
Please


Im not defending them but im not offending them lol! postmodern

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With respect, you're turning this into an "either-or" situation when the reality is that it's far more than this. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing to laugh. I've often had a chuckle in church, if the minister has made an amusing side note in his sermon. I'm not saying it's wrong to be happy either.

The problem is that there's a world of difference between being happy and laughing so much you have no control over yourself. When someone overcome with this "holy laughter" is rendered incapable of answering simple questions like "what is your name?" one has to wonder how this brings any glory to God whatsoever. This is nothing to do with saying we should all maintain a stiff upper lip at all times and make sure we don't do anything that might look like we were enjoying church at all, it's about a sense of balance.

If you look at a 10-pin bowling lane you see the sort of thing I mean. If you look at some of the more extreme cessationist theology out there I believe that can be represented by one of the gutters down the side. If you fall in the gutter you miss the mark and don't knock over any of the skittles. To say that we don't want to make that mistake, and to make sure we don't make that mistake we are going to bowl aiming away from the gutter means you'll fall into the other gutter, which represents the uberpentecostal and hypercharismatic churches that become so touchy-feely that any sense of spiritual discernment is lost and anything is good as long as it makes you feel right (whatever that means).

The correct course of action is to miss both gutters and bowl down the middle of the lane, thereby honoring both sides of "do not quench the Spirit, do not despise prophecy, test all things, hold fast what is true".

 

[tango]

So you are just content and thats it? Thats how you rejoice?

I'm not sure how you get from MennoSota's post to this conclusion.

There's a world of difference between raising hands in praise, and being taken over by something that causes you to lose all control and calling it praise.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The "Toronto blessing" is, like tongues, exciting, so people like to talk about it. It is not as important as the doctrine of the Trinity nor as important as the Incarnation. But "holy laughter" is entertaining so people talk about it and are distracted from the things that matter.

 

[Imalive]

I'm not sure how you get from MennoSota's post to this conclusion.

There's a world of difference between raising hands in praise, and being taken over by something that causes you to lose all control and calling it praise.

I've seen ppl in Holland laugh again only cause John Arnott visited. Last decades I haven't heard anyone laughing but then all of a sudden its whooooooo imitating Carol and laughing and they just do it themselves. I think theres demonic influence too and I think there's the real stuff. Just because someone cant function doesnt mean it has to be from the devil because the priests serving in the temple in the O.T. couldnt function either and Saul w the prophets was taken over by Gods Spirit.

 

[Albion]

The "Toronto blessing" is, like tongues, exciting, so people like to talk about it. It is not as important as the doctrine of the Trinity nor as important as the Incarnation. But "holy laughter" is entertaining so people talk about it and are distracted from the things that matter.

From what I can tell, it is also not nearly as significant as it seemed at one time it could become.

 

[Josiah]

I brought it up because, in MY very limited and humble opinion, I WONDER (I choose that word carefully), I just wonder if "holy laughter" and modern "tongues" aren't essentially the same thing. I didn't expect to get that confirmed or denied by this thread, of course. But "Holy Laughter" does have one HUGE, ENORMOUS advantage over "tongues"..... we all know what laughter is. Laughter very likely was the same thing for Jesus and the Apostles and the early Christians; when the Bible states "laugh" everyone pretty much knows what that was..... and when it is done today, we can confidently say it's the same thing as what the Bible says. We can debate if such comes from God or not but at least we know what "it" was/is.

 

[Imalive]

Lol talk about correct doctrin, this is funny:

Philip found Nathanael and told him, "We have found the one Moses wrote about in the Law, and about whom the prophets also wrote--Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph."

 

[Albion]

There are some confusing aspects to this Holy Laughter. For one, it is said to be the HS taking over ones body and also that it is a blessing. But it has no Biblical precedent, no promise, nothing like Pentecost or something found in Pauls epistles, no cessation vs. continuation argument. The Bible says that people laughed, yes, but that doesn't make this bodily function a blessing, does it? What is the special blessing in laughing, barking, etc. that makes us think it is a special imparting of the Holy Spirit? At least with tongues, the phenomenon is not something that we all do every day for no particularly spiritual reason.

All that aside, I think the topic itself is a worthy one. My earlier comment was not a criticism of the thread but more of an observation about one aspect of Tongues vs. Holy Laughter. The former, like it or not, is a significant movement in Christianity. Holy Laughter was closer to a flash in the pan although there apparently are still some practitioners here or there.

 

[Andrew]

I got an idea for a serotonin based church, Jehovah's Fitness, or wait we are supposed to rest.
Creating waves in the house seems to always draw in inquires who believe demons possess people who speak tongues.
Its a lose lose situation, if the she floats she is a witch if she sinks she is not

 

[Imalive]

There are some confusing aspects to this Holy Laughter. For one, it is said to be the HS taking over ones body and also that it is a blessing. But it has no Biblical precedent, no promise, nothing like Pentecost or something found in Pauls epistles, no cessation vs. continuation argument. The Bible says that people laughed, yes, but that doesn't make this bodily function a blessing, does it? What is the special blessing in laughing, barking, etc. that makes us think it is a special imparting of the Holy Spirit? At least with tongues, the phenomenon is not something that we all do every day for no particularly spiritual reason.

All that aside, I think the topic itself is a worthy one. My earlier comment was not a criticism of the thread but more of an observation about one aspect of Tongues vs. Holy Laughter. The former, like it or not, is a significant movement in Christianity. Holy Laughter was closer to a flash in the pan although there apparently are still some practitioners here or there.

It's in the Bible in the gifts: prophets, teachers, apostles and Holy Spirit bartenders hahahahahahahaha, sorry just kidding.

 

[tango]

I've seen ppl in Holland laugh again only cause John Arnott visited. Last decades I haven't heard anyone laughing but then all of a sudden its whooooooo imitating Carol and laughing and they just do it themselves. I think theres demonic influence too and I think there's the real stuff. Just because someone cant function doesnt mean it has to be from the devil because the priests serving in the temple in the O.T. couldnt function either and Saul w the prophets was taken over by Gods Spirit.

I wouldn't say laughter in and of itself is anything bad but really think this "holy laughter" is something other than the Holy Spirit at work. We also need to be a little careful drawing parallels with the OT because the priests in the OT were a very different thing to the priests of the NT. The OT is obviously still relevant today but we need to be sure that it is correctly applied.

I agree there are gifts from God and there are demonic counterfeits of the gifts (as well as human counterfeits that may look good but spiritually have no direction at all). That said if something is not of God it doesn't necessarily follow that something comparable exists that is of God. Personally I think the "holy laughter" is at best human hysteria although, given how seriously it disturbed me when I saw it (and even then only on video), I would personally avoid it the same way I would avoid things of the occult.

 

[tango]

There are some confusing aspects to this Holy Laughter. For one, it is said to be the HS taking over ones body and also that it is a blessing. But it has no Biblical precedent, no promise, nothing like Pentecost or something found in Pauls epistles, no cessation vs. continuation argument. The Bible says that people laughed, yes, but that doesn't make this bodily function a blessing, does it? What is the special blessing in laughing, barking, etc. that makes us think it is a special imparting of the Holy Spirit? At least with tongues, the phenomenon is not something that we all do every day for no particularly spiritual reason.

All that aside, I think the topic itself is a worthy one. My earlier comment was not a criticism of the thread but more of an observation about one aspect of Tongues vs. Holy Laughter. The former, like it or not, is a significant movement in Christianity. Holy Laughter was closer to a flash in the pan although there apparently are still some practitioners here or there.

I think the very notion of the Holy Spirit "taking over" is itself a warning flag. Scripture indicates that we are invited to follow Jesus - when he walked the earth as a man his "follow me" was an invitation rather than a command. Revelation refers to "behold I stand at the door and knock". Paul wrote that the spirit of the prophets was subject to the prophets. Nowhere is there an indication that the Holy Spirit would simply impose himself upon people in great numbers the way we are expected to believe happens today.

Things like the Toronto "blessing" and anything else that suggests the Holy Spirit takes over somebody and forces them to behave in a way that is perhaps most tactfully described as "irrational" would appear to have more of a Scriptural parallel with King Nebuchadnezzar eating grass like an animal. Athough it's not an obvious match where we can easily say "this is equivalent to that" it seems to be the closest Scriptural parallel and for that reason alone I'd be inclined to urge caution.

 

[Imalive]

I think the very notion of the Holy Spirit "taking over" is itself a warning flag. Scripture indicates that we are invited to follow Jesus - when he walked the earth as a man his "follow me" was an invitation rather than a command. Revelation refers to "behold I stand at the door and knock". Paul wrote that the spirit of the prophets was subject to the prophets. Nowhere is there an indication that the Holy Spirit would simply impose himself upon people in great numbers the way we are expected to believe happens today.

Things like the Toronto "blessing" and anything else that suggests the Holy Spirit takes over somebody and forces them to behave in a way that is perhaps most tactfully described as "irrational" would appear to have more of a Scriptural parallel with King Nebuchadnezzar eating grass like an animal. Athough it's not an obvious match where we can easily say "this is equivalent to that" it seems to be the closest Scriptural parallel and for that reason alone I'd be inclined to urge caution.

Yes in the Toronto time my ex always said that the spirit of the prophets was subject to the prophets, so if someone in our church started to act like a total nutcase and said: I can't help it, the Spirit is taking over, he'd say that and thus act normal also because there's more ppl in the church and then it was all of a sudden possible to act normal.
Dutch solution to weirdness: act normal hahahahahahaha.

 

[MennoSota]

So you are just content and thats it? Thats how you rejoice?

1 Timothy 6:6-11
New International Version (NIV)

6 But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. 8 But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. 9 Those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
11 But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness.

Philippians 4:11-13New International Version (NIV)

11*I am not saying this because I am in need, for I have learned to be content whatever the circumstances. 12*I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. 13*I can do all this through him who gives me strength.

 

[Andrew]

Those verses are about being content with your wages and not seeking higher wealth for the love of money is the root of all evil.
I meant you are content with your intellect as your form of rejoicing, thats different.
You cant just say I am content with whatever and point these versus out of the Bible to justify it.
Forgive me you just seem rather grouchy thats all, like do you smile when you say "amen"?