Where does faith come from?

Josiah

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MoreCoffee, my Catholic brother and friend, consider this.....


This comes from Rev. Jim McClarty at salvationbygrace.org


Q – Does the Greek designate what the “it” is that is being referred to in Ephesians 2:8-9? I know that “it” is supplied by the translators, so maybe the better thing to ask is: what is “the gift” referring to. Is it grace or faith? I know that most people think that grace is being referred to and that is what I was taught. But, when I look at Romans 12:3 I wonder if the faith that we use to accept salvation is given by God in the first place.


Let’s start by looking at the passage under consideration, Ephesians 2:8-10.

“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.” (New International Version)

“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. (New King James Version)

“For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. (New American Standard Update)

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.” (King James Version)

“For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast. For we are his workmanship, having been created in Christ Jesus for good works that God prepared beforehand so we may do them.” (New English Translation)

The reason that I have listed five different versions of this passage is to prove that the original text is so clear in its meaning that every respected translation agrees on all of the salient points. And, they all make the same addition to the text in order to comply with the rules of the English language. They all insert the phrase “it is,” referring back to whatever part of the opening phrase is actually a gift of God. In fact, the NET adds “it is” twice. But in reality, that phrase is not a part of the original Greek text.

So, inasmuch as the word “it” that you are asking about is not a part of the original text, the real question we have to address is: to what is Paul referring when he says that something is not of ourselves, but is a gift of God, not resulting from any man’s works, so that no man can boast?

Now, what does appear in the original text is the phrase “kai touto,” commonly translated “and that.” So, we need to identify what “that” is when Paul writes “and that not of yourselves.” Whatever “that” is, it is a gift of God. And I think that if we can identify what “that” is, we can answer your question.

It is sometimes pointed out that the word “that” is written in the neuter gender in the Greek text. At the same time, the word “faith” is in the feminine gender. Usually, that fact works as a launching pad from which all sorts of conclusions are drawn about how Paul could not have been referring back to faith when he declared that it was not from ourselves. Consequently, they reckon, faith is an action or ability that humans must instigate and sustain, to which God responds. But, anyone who makes that argument is simply showing that he doesn't know Greek grammar.

The simple fact is that there is nothing in the first phrase — “For by grace you have been saved through faith” – that matches “that” in gender. As James White points out in his excellent exegesis of this text, “grace” is feminine and “have been saved” is a masculine participle. So, there’s only one possible outcome that satisfies the grammar and choice of language: the neuter demonstrative pronoun “that” encompasses and refers back to the entirety of the preceding clause as a single unit.

In other words, there is nothing in the opening clause of Ephesians 2:8 that originates with the saved individual. And that would include faith. Salvation, grace, and faith are all inclusively the gift of God, not the result of any person’s effort or works, for the purpose of excluding all boasting. They are “the gift,” which is even more interesting. The grammar simply does not permit any other view.

The word rendered “gift” in this verse is “doron,” usually denoting a sacrificial gift or offering. As a result, the gift of which Paul writes cannot be earned; it must be offered sacrificially by the one who willingly gives it. And so, consistent with the entirety of his theology, Paul writes that God willingly “gifts” his people with everything necessary for their salvation: grace and faith.

Lastly, you mentioned Romans 12:3 and wondered if the faith that we use to accept salvation is given by God in the first place. I would respond that you are right on track in that thinking. But I would also direct you to another passage:

“Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.” Heb. 12:1-2

If Jesus is indeed both “the author and perfecter of faith,” then we cannot claim to have any part in its inception or completion. The King James Version says that He is the “author and finisher” of faith. Any way you slice it, God’s word insists that faith starts and ends with Him. He instigates it, He sustains it, and He completes it.

Or, to approach this from another angle, IF we insist that we have some part in believing what God has said or done, then we have added our portion to the equation of salvation and we do indeed have something about which we could justifiably boast. After all, God did His bit, but we also did ours.






.
 

MennoSota

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It isn't permission. It's stating the obvious; namely that your posts do not deal with facts so further discussion is unprofitable.
LOL, the fact is you are creating a pretzel. I have shared scripture which clearly shows how God revealed himself within the Bible. You are working hard to twist it. This makes me smile and chuckle at your attempt to lower the importance of scripture as God's primary means of speaking to the human heart.
The clear fact about faith is described in Ephesians 2:8-9. You are wanting to avoid this fact.
 

Josiah

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The clear fact about faith is described in Ephesians 2:8-9.

See post 41....

I too think this is amazingly clear to any who have no "issues" with Jesus being the Savior.....

I don't think anyone here is being disengenuous....

I love these kinds of discussions! Love it! Good to have you in our community!
 

MennoSota

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See post 41....

I too think this is amazingly clear to any who have no "issues" with Jesus being the Savior.....

I don't think anyone here is being disengenuous....

I love these kinds of discussions! Love it! Good to have you in our community!
I agree that no one is being disingenuous.
I have heard the phrase, "You don't know what you don't know", and I think it applies to many Christians when discussing this topic.
Many people have never looked at the issue because it's not talked about. Most just hear the church speak coming from the Christian culture and believe they chose God by their own free will. They don't consider how such a thought is contradictory to what God says in scripture.
"You don't know what you don't know."
 

MoreCoffee

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Josiah, pay careful attention to the phrases and see that not only is it salvation by grace that is the gift but it is also contrasted with works which do not "earn" it. Nobody, least of all Paul, is going to contend that faith earns salvation. Look at the passage without theological goggles distorting it.
Ephesians 2:1-10 You were dead through the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once lived, following the course of this world, following the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work among those who are disobedient. 3 All of us once lived among them in the passions of our flesh, following the desires of flesh and senses, and we were by nature children of wrath, like everyone else. 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, out of the great love with which he loved us 5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ--by grace you have been saved-- 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness towards us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God-- 9 not the result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are what he has made us, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand to be our way of life.

A Presbyterian commentator (Barnes) wrote
Ephesians 2:8

For by grace are ye saved - By mere favor. It is not by your Own merit; it is not because you have any claim. This is a favorite doctrine with Paul, as it is with all who love the Lord Jesus in sincerity; compare the notes at Rom 1:7; Rom 3:24, note.

Through faith - Grace bestowed through faith, or in connection with believing; see the notes at Rom 1:17; Rom 4:16, note.

And that not of yourselves - That is, salvation does not proceed from yourselves. The word rendered “that” - τοῦτο touto - is in the neuter gender, and the word “faith” - πίστις pistis - is in the feminine. The word “that,” therefore, does not refer particularly to faith, as being the gift of God, but to “the salvation by grace” of which he had been speaking. This is the interpretation of the passage which is the most obvious, and which is now generally conceded to be the true one; see Bloomfield. Many critics, however, as Doddridge, Beza, Piscator, and Chrysostom, maintain that the word “that” (τοῦτο touto) refers to “faith” (πίστις pistis); and Doddridge maintains that such a use is common in the New Testament. As a matter of grammar this opinion is certainly doubtful, if not untenable; but as a matter of theology it is a question of very little importance.

Whether this passage proves it or not, it is certainly true that faith is the gift of God. It exists in the mind only when the Holy Spirit produces it there, and is, in common with every other Christian excellence, to be traced to his agency on the heart. This opinion, however, does not militate at all with the doctrine that man himself “believes.” It is not God that “believes” for him, for that is impossible. It is his own mind that actually believes, or that exercises faith; see the notes at Rom 4:3. In the same manner “repentance” is to be traced to God. It is one of the fruits of the operation of the Holy Spirit on the soul. But the Holy Spirit does not “repent” for us. It is our “own mind” that repents; our own heart that feels; our own eyes that weep - and without this there can he no true repentance. No one can repent for another; and God neither can nor ought to repent; for us. He has done no wrong, and if repentance is ever exercised, therefore, it must be exercised by our own minds. So of faith. God cannot believe for us. “We” must believe, or “we” shall be damned. Still this does not conflict at all with the opinion, that if we exercise faith, the inclination to do it is to be traced to the agency of God on the heart. I would not contend, therefore, about the grammatical construction of this passage, with respect to the point of the theology contained in it; still it accords better with the obvious grammatical construction, and with the design of the passage to understand the word “that” as referring not to “faith” only, but to “salvation by grace.” So Calvin understands it, and so it is understood by Storr, Locke, Clarke, Koppe, Grotius, and others.

It is the gift of God - Salvation by grace is his gift. It is not of merit; it is wholly by favor.
 
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Lamb

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Ephesians 2:8-9 clearly express a specific gift of faith, not a general grace extended to all humanity.

Since dead men can never cause anything to happen, there must be a different cause agent for faith to exist in the believer.
As Ephesians 2 states, we cannot take credit for generating our own faith. If we could it would be a cause for boasting in ourselves.
No, God must specifically gift humans with faith. This gift comes after God makes us alive in Christ (aka saves us).

So instead of where does faith come from the question should be from whom does faith come?
 

MennoSota

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So instead of where does faith come from the question should be from whom does faith come?
That would have been better wording.
 

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MennoSota

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Yes. If faith comes from God and not me...well then I have nothing to contribute ;)
I am filled with gratefulness because of God's amazing grace in gifting me faith to believe he has atoned for my sins.
 

popsthebuilder

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Hearing the Word of GOD.
 

MennoSota

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Metaphor.....the dead can here.... Perhaps not the twice dead.
The dead must be made alive so they can hear. Once a person is alive, they can obey.
 

Josiah

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They are made alive by what is heard.


Sometimes....

But IMO, the issue of HOW God gives faith is not key... the important thing is that God gives it. How it is delivered, packaged, wrapped, etc. isn't so much the point (at least in this thread).


A not-so-good illustration. My sister has two little girls. She has a Ph.D. in biology and so I'm guessing she has a pretty good handle on how babies are made. And yet, when both were born, she thanked GOD for these GIFTS, crediting God for this miracle. The process God used isn't really the point, the One who "knit" the child in her womb and GAVE the precious child to them - that was the point, He was the one who got all the glory, praise, and thanks. Follow me?


As a Protestant, I believe that justification (narrow) is: Sola Gratia - Solus Christus - Sola Fide as ONE, united, inseparable concept. And since I believe that Jesus is the Savior then I must believe that Jesus does the saving. And since "faith" is an inseparable part of justification, that too must come from God. Which is exactly what the Bible states (Ephesians 2:8 etc., etc. See post # 41).



Thank you!


- Josiah
 

popsthebuilder

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Sometimes....

But IMO, the issue of HOW God gives faith is not key... the important thing is that God gives it. How it is delivered, packaged, wrapped, etc. isn't so much the point (at least in this thread).


A not-so-good illustration. My sister has two little girls. She has a Ph.D. in biology and so I'm guessing she has a pretty good handle on how babies are made. And yet, when both were born, she thanked GOD for these GIFTS, crediting God for this miracle. The process God used isn't really the point, the One who "knit" the child in her womb and GAVE the precious child to them - that was the point, He was the one who got all the glory, praise, and thanks. Follow me?


As a Protestant, I believe that justification (narrow) is: Sola Gratia - Solus Christus - Sola Fide as ONE, united, inseparable concept. And since I believe that Jesus is the Savior then I must believe that Jesus does the saving. And since "faith" is an inseparable part of justification, that too must come from God. Which is exactly what the Bible states (Ephesians 2:8 etc., etc. See post # 41).



Thank you!


- Josiah
If they are made alive by what is heard and what is heard is the Word of GOD then it is all to the glory of GOD.

I think that is what you were saying, and agree.

Thank you too.
 
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