Where does faith come from?

[Albion]

I suppose there's a verse that says that, right?

Ephesians 2:8 answers that question pretty conclusively, but as to your other comment:

Since faith comes from hearing the message of Jesus Christ (the word of Christ) has the answer to the thread's question been found or do we need more?

consider looking at it this way--

Faith comes from having heard (or read) the Gospel, yes, but that doesn't mean that hearing creates the gift. It's the vehicle by which God imparts his gift to us mortals. We are creatures of flesh and blood who understand and function in a physical world. Consider how often Christ used physical items in order to deliver a spiritual benefit or message. By definition, a sacrament has to have physical properties, right? Why? He used mud when curing a blind man and put his hands on a deaf man. He could simply have said the word.

So when he gave his apostles the great commission, it was for them to go into the whole world and actualize the gift of Faith by delivering the Gospel to those whom God had determined to save. You know that not everyone who hears it, either then or now, is converted. If hearing itself were "where Faith comes from" they all would be gifted with it.

 

[Imalive]

Ephesians 2:8 answers that question pretty conclusively, but as to your other comment:


consider looking at it this way--

Faith comes from having heard (or read) the Gospel, yes, but that doesn't mean that hearing creates the gift. It's the vehicle by which God imparts his gift to us mortals. We are creatures of flesh and blood who understand and function in a physical world. Consider how often Christ used physical items in order to deliver a spiritual benefit or message. By definition, a sacrament has to have physical properties, right? Why? He used mud when curing a blind man and put his hands on a deaf man. He could simply have said the word.

So when he gave his apostles the great commission, it was for them to go into the whole world and actualize the gift of Faith by delivering the Gospel to those whom God had determined to save. You know that not everyone who hears it, either then or now, is converted. If hearing itself were "where Faith comes from" they all would be gifted with it.

Last sentence: no cause that's the parable of the sawyer. There's hard ground, birds picking it. Any small kid will accept Him if the parents let em if they hear the Word, that's good ground.

 

[Albion]

It is said that the parable of the sower has two possible points: 1) man’s reception of God’s Word is determined by the condition of his heart and 2) Salvation is more just a matter of hearing the gospel.

IMHO, neither of those contradicts what I wrote above. God still is allowing whomever he has chosen to be one to receive Faith (as opposed to knowledge of the Gospel). Also, Faith changes people. But that's after the reception and is not what we were talking about.

Any little kid will believe something good about Jesus if his parents let him, I agree. That is not saving "Faith," however.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I thought you couldn't hear God speak in his Word.

I hear the Word of God quite often, it just is not the same as hearing the bible talking. You know that "scripture" is not the same as "the Word of God" right?

 

[Imalive]

The Bible talks nowadays in an audible voice, oh even dramatized.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLRTwKflrxkQCrP1ZbbKpdP8xoQu2AXT74&v=EiXQmeuHTOY

 

[MennoSota]

I hear the Word of God quite often, it just is not the same as hearing the bible talking. You know that "scripture" is not the same as "the Word of God" right?

I know that the teachings of the RC and their sacred traditions are not God inspired.
I know that God spoke to his prophets and apostles and wrote his Word in scripture. This means that the Bible is God's word.
If you want to add to that, then you are doing the exact same thing that Muslims and Mormons do.

 

[Albion]

You know that "scripture" is not the same as "the Word of God" right?

Actually, it is. That's why the Pope and Billy Graham alike refer to it by that term. Christ is normally referred to as "the Word."

 

[MoreCoffee]

I know that the teachings of the RC and their sacred traditions are not God inspired.
I know that God spoke to his prophets and apostles and wrote his Word in scripture. This means that the Bible is God's word.
If you want to add to that, then you are doing the exact same thing that Muslims and Mormons do.

It's not a Catholic thing. Honestly. The word "scripture" is not the same as the word "word". In Latin, in Greek, and in English there is a specific word for written communication and a specific word for spoken communication. In English "word" is ambiguous because it is overloaded with meanings. In Greek "logos" is not overloaded in the same way. In Greek "logos" refers to spoken communication and to "ideas" but it doesn't mean "a book" or "written documents" or even "written words" unless those words are read out loud by a speaker.

λόγος logos (log'-os)

From G3004; something said (including the thought); by implication a topic (subject of discourse), also reasoning (the mental faculty) or motive; by extension a computation; specifically (with the article in John) the Divine Expression (that is, Christ): - account, cause, communication, X concerning, doctrine, fame, X have to do, intent, matter, mouth, preaching, question, reason, + reckon, remove, say (-ing), shew, X speaker, speech, talk, thing, + none of these things move me, tidings, treatise, utterance, word, work.​

I do not know if facts will influence your answer to this post but one lives in hope that they will.

 

[MennoSota]

It's not a Catholic thing. Honestly. The word "scripture" is not the same as the word "word". In Latin, in Greek, and in English there is a specific word for written communication and a specific word for spoken communication. In English "word" is ambiguous because it is overloaded with meanings. In Greek "logos" is not overloaded in the same way. In Greek "logos" refers to spoken communication and to "ideas" but it doesn't mean "a book" or "written documents" or even "written words" unless those words are read out loud by a speaker.

λόγος logos (log'-os)

From G3004; something said (including the thought); by implication a topic (subject of discourse), also reasoning (the mental faculty) or motive; by extension a computation; specifically (with the article in John) the Divine Expression (that is, Christ): - account, cause, communication, X concerning, doctrine, fame, X have to do, intent, matter, mouth, preaching, question, reason, + reckon, remove, say (-ing), shew, X speaker, speech, talk, thing, + none of these things move me, tidings, treatise, utterance, word, work.​

I do not know if facts will influence your answer to this post but one lives in hope that they will.

You are pretzeling in an attempt to minimize God speaking through scripture. I find your attempt humorous.

 

[MoreCoffee]

You are pretzeling in an attempt to minimize God speaking through scripture. I find your attempt humorous.

Okay, I suppose that reply is a variant on the "silly" one you posted the other time. I am not very worried if you dismiss my posts. Do as you please.

 

[Imalive]

Rhema is if God directly speaks to you through the Word.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Rhema is if God directly speaks to you through the Word.

I do not think that is correct but I do know it is a common opinion in Pentecostal circles.

 

[Imalive]

who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Ah, how does faith come? God speaks the Word and the Spirit does it, just like w creation.

 

[MoreCoffee]

who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Ah, how does faith come? God speaks the Word and the Spirit does it, just like w creation.

Where does faith come from is the question. How it comes is a different question.

 

[Imalive]

Where does faith come from is the question. How it comes is a different question.

Ah. From God. It's a gift.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Ah. From God. It's a gift.

People say that and it is true insofar as everything is a gift from God, in fact one's life and breath are gifts from God, but the question "where does faith come from?" isn't asking about ultimate sources only is it? It is asking also about immediate causes. And holy scripture answers that question about immediate causes for faith. The passages I quoted from Romans chapter ten says it well and succinctly; "faith comes from heating the word of Christ". The word of Christ is the gospel message which Mark summarises as "Jesus came to Galilee, proclaiming the good news of God, and saying, 'The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God has come near; repent, and believe in the good news.' " (Mark 1:14-15)

 

[MennoSota]

Okay, I suppose that reply is a variant on the "silly" one you posted the other time. I am not very worried if you dismiss my posts. Do as you please.

Thank you for your permission.

 

[MennoSota]

People say that and it is true insofar as everything is a gift from God, in fact one's life and breath are gifts from God, but the question "where does faith come from?" isn't asking about ultimate sources only is it? It is asking also about immediate causes. And holy scripture answer that question about immediate causes for faith. The passages I quoted from Romans chapter ten says it well and succinctly; "faith comes from heating the word of Christ". The word of Christ is the gospel message which Mark summarises as "Jesus came to Galilee, proclaiming the good news of God, and saying, 'The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God has come near; repent, and believe in the good news.' " (Mark 1:14-15)

Ephesians 2:8-9 clearly express a specific gift of faith, not a general grace extended to all humanity.

Since dead men can never cause anything to happen, there must be a different cause agent for faith to exist in the believer.
As Ephesians 2 states, we cannot take credit for generating our own faith. If we could it would be a cause for boasting in ourselves.
No, God must specifically gift humans with faith. This gift comes after God makes us alive in Christ (aka saves us).

 

[MoreCoffee]

Thank you for your permission.

It isn't permission. It's stating the obvious; namely that your posts do not deal with facts so further discussion is unprofitable.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Ephesians 2:8-9 clearly express a specific gift of faith, not a general grace extended to all humanity.

Since dead men can never cause anything to happen, there must be a different cause agent for faith to exist in the believer.
As Ephesians 2 states, we cannot take credit for generating our own faith. If we could it would be a cause for boasting in ourselves.
No, God must specifically gift humans with faith. This gift comes after God makes us alive in Christ (aka saves us).

Ephesians can be interpreted as saying that faith is a gift and it can be interpreted as saying that grace is the gift of God and faith is instrumental in achieving salvation.

Ephesians 2:1-10 You were dead through the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once lived, following the course of this world, following the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work among those who are disobedient. 3 All of us once lived among them in the passions of our flesh, following the desires of flesh and senses, and we were by nature children of wrath, like everyone else. 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, out of the great love with which he loved us 5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ--by grace you have been saved-- 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness towards us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God-- 9 not the result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are what he has made us, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand to be our way of life.​