Theology thread.

[tango]

When a chap is fishing they don't mind what kind of fish bites the hook.

Possibly. I'm not a fisherman myself but have friends who do fish. Sometimes they just want to see what bites, other times they are fishing for something specific and don't want anything else.

 

[tango]

Yep.
What I have read is many posts expressing theology via a personal experience...without concern that the experience may be contradictory to God's word.
Sola Scriptura

It's clearly not valid to use nothing more than a personal experience paired with something vaguely spiritual sounding (you know, "the Holy Spirit was all over me", "I felt a deep peace") and conclude from these two things that this is not only a valid manifestation of the Holy Spirit but also represents some kind of universal truth that applies equally to everybody.

On the other hand the text of Scripture does leave quite a lot open because, well, we're all individuals and God may interact with us as individuals. What might convince me may not convince you and the process of meeting us where we are means that God isn't going to meet me where you are.

If we stray too far one way we end up with an image of a god who is fickle and shifts like the tide; too far the other way and we create a situation where we don't accept something because there isn't a very clear Scriptural precedent for exactly that. If we take the former line of thinking to its conclusion then we end up with all sorts of silly relativism where God is all things to all people and blesses things while also cursing them at the same time. If we take the latter line of thinking to its conclusion we have to conclude that God did not send Jesus Christ to die for our sins because he had never done anything quite like that before and, taking it a little further, God couldn't have created the heavens and the earth because he hadn't done that before either.

 

[Imalive]

My ex is only fishing for carps, but he caught a carp fisher who was open to the gospel.

 

[tango]

Thinking about this some more, there are all sorts of situations where it's not possible to find a single Bible verse that definitively answers a question that is fundamentally individual in nature.

Let's say I am thinking God might be calling me to be a missionary to Bangalore. It's not hard to find Bible verses that support the idea of going out into the world but there isn't a single one anywhere that will tell me definitively whether I, as an individual, am called to that specific destination or indeed whether I am personally called to go out as a missionary at all.

If I think God is calling me to be a pastor, it's easy to find verses that show how some are called to this and some are called to that but nothing that will tell me whether I personally am called to those things.

In these situations, and many others like them, all we can do is fall back on personal experience and compare what we are experiencing to the nature of God as revealed in the Bible. If we build a theology to match our experiences we will very likely end up with a badly flawed theology; on the other hand the only way we can determine an individual calling is through God speaking to us, in his own way, as individuals.

Perhaps if God is calling me to be a missionary to Bangalore he will send a succession of unrelated people to talk to me, so that I get the message in a way that is unlikely to be just chance. Perhaps I will have recurring dreams of Bangalore. Perhaps I'll be in church and find we have a guest speaker from Bangalore. There are all sorts of ways God might reach out to indicate to me what he wants me to do and the chances are none of them can be categorically validated using Scripture.

There are all sorts of things that can be objectively falsified using Scripture - for example if someone claimed that God told them they should leave their wife it doesn't take much searching through Scripture to point out that it probably isn't God speaking. But things that could conceivably be God speaking will invariably left somewhat open because there's nothing that categorically says "this is God" in a manner that is universally demonstrable as being truth.

 

[MennoSota]

Possibly. I'm not a fisherman myself but have friends who do fish. Sometimes they just want to see what bites, other times they are fishing for something specific and don't want anything else.

No fish ever bite. They have to be caught in a net.

 

[MennoSota]

It's clearly not valid to use nothing more than a personal experience paired with something vaguely spiritual sounding (you know, "the Holy Spirit was all over me", "I felt a deep peace") and conclude from these two things that this is not only a valid manifestation of the Holy Spirit but also represents some kind of universal truth that applies equally to everybody.

On the other hand the text of Scripture does leave quite a lot open because, well, we're all individuals and God may interact with us as individuals. What might convince me may not convince you and the process of meeting us where we are means that God isn't going to meet me where you are.

If we stray too far one way we end up with an image of a god who is fickle and shifts like the tide; too far the other way and we create a situation where we don't accept something because there isn't a very clear Scriptural precedent for exactly that. If we take the former line of thinking to its conclusion then we end up with all sorts of silly relativism where God is all things to all people and blesses things while also cursing them at the same time. If we take the latter line of thinking to its conclusion we have to conclude that God did not send Jesus Christ to die for our sins because he had never done anything quite like that before and, taking it a little further, God couldn't have created the heavens and the earth because he hadn't done that before either.

If we study the Bible we see that Yeshua is revealed over and over again before he ever condescends to earth.

 

[MennoSota]

Thinking about this some more, there are all sorts of situations where it's not possible to find a single Bible verse that definitively answers a question that is fundamentally individual in nature.

Let's say I am thinking God might be calling me to be a missionary to Bangalore. It's not hard to find Bible verses that support the idea of going out into the world but there isn't a single one anywhere that will tell me definitively whether I, as an individual, am called to that specific destination or indeed whether I am personally called to go out as a missionary at all.

If I think God is calling me to be a pastor, it's easy to find verses that show how some are called to this and some are called to that but nothing that will tell me whether I personally am called to those things.

In these situations, and many others like them, all we can do is fall back on personal experience and compare what we are experiencing to the nature of God as revealed in the Bible. If we build a theology to match our experiences we will very likely end up with a badly flawed theology; on the other hand the only way we can determine an individual calling is through God speaking to us, in his own way, as individuals.

Perhaps if God is calling me to be a missionary to Bangalore he will send a succession of unrelated people to talk to me, so that I get the message in a way that is unlikely to be just chance. Perhaps I will have recurring dreams of Bangalore. Perhaps I'll be in church and find we have a guest speaker from Bangalore. There are all sorts of ways God might reach out to indicate to me what he wants me to do and the chances are none of them can be categorically validated using Scripture.

There are all sorts of things that can be objectively falsified using Scripture - for example if someone claimed that God told them they should leave their wife it doesn't take much searching through Scripture to point out that it probably isn't God speaking. But things that could conceivably be God speaking will invariably left somewhat open because there's nothing that categorically says "this is God" in a manner that is universally demonstrable as being truth.

God doesn't care where you go. He cares that you obey. Our task is to preach the gospel of reconciliation (2 Corinthians 5). God will adopt and save his children with or without you. The Bible says that we were chosen from before the foundation of the world. There is no mystery in who will or who won't be saved from God's point of view. All the mystery is on our finite end where we don't have a clue.
If God wants you in Bangladesh, God will put you there. No questions asked. It's a shame we spend so much time fretting over the silly stuff and not just walking in step with God in the moment.

 

[MennoSota]

chirp, chirp, chirp

Mod's can we rename the Theology forum. Perhaps name it the "Personal Faith Opinion Forum". That way no one needs to open their Bible or support their opinion using their Bible and theology.

 

[Lamb]

Theology: the study of the nature of God and religious belief.

Christian theology should have the main focus of Jesus, the cross and salvation of our forgiveness.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Yep.
What I have read is many posts expressing theology via a personal experience...without concern that the experience may be contradictory to God's word.
Sola Scriptura

I'll be happy to discuss my theological perspective using scriptural references and personal testimony.

I do ask that you specify some starting point or opening question. Perhaps you already have; I haven't seen the whole thread yet.

peace

 

[popsthebuilder]

Most of your posts, based upon what I read, are comments from your church rather than from scripture.

Bogus claim friend.

I, and others here know with a surety that though all doctrine is susceptible to the twisting or contorting of man; morecoffees' perspective is very much based on and verified throughout scripture.


You seem to be on the attack; that's good and fine I suppose, but do aim and consider your swings and the potential consequences there of.

It has been my findings that anyone can use scripture to some extent, to verify their claims; but this is generally done without accuracy or care for the actual content or context of the sacred texts.

 

[popsthebuilder]

If we study the Bible we see that Yeshua is revealed over and over again before he ever condescends to earth.

condescends?

 

[Imalive]

Bogus claim friend.

I, and others here know with a surety that though all doctrine is susceptible to the twisting or contorting of man; morecoffees' perspective is very much based on and verified throughout scripture.


You seem to be on the attack; that's good and fine I suppose, but do aim and consider your swings and the potential consequences there of.

It has been my findings that anyone can use scripture to some extent, to verify their claims; but this is generally done without accuracy or care for the actual content or context of the sacred texts.

Or just skip a whole book like Corinths. They were bad so dont learn about tongues in that book. Sola Scriptura. Sure. All theology from whoever or whatever group or denomination doesn't have it all right. If they don't like something they skip texts. Theo loog. Theo lied. Better just read the Bible.

 

[Albion]

I think you've made a mistake somewhere with this. No one has skipped books of Scripture that I have seen, whether Catholics or Protestants, Charismatics or Evangelicals.

The fact is, however, that one persons interpretation of any passage is not guaranteed to be identical to that of the next person. That is certainly born out by the posts made in the recent tongues discussion.

And it is not always the case that a poster will reprint the whole passage in his post. Sometimes, the chapter and verse is cited, and at other times the verse is merely acknowledged. But none of that constitutes skipping or omitting it.

That said, what I think the point here was all about was the tendency of people to think they are proving some point by saying that the Almighty revealed it to them directly, or else *laid it on their heart,* or inspired them to realize...or something else like that. That's when we need Scripture.

 

[MennoSota]

Bogus claim friend.

I, and others here know with a surety that though all doctrine is susceptible to the twisting or contorting of man; morecoffees' perspective is very much based on and verified throughout scripture.


You seem to be on the attack; that's good and fine I suppose, but do aim and consider your swings and the potential consequences there of.

It has been my findings that anyone can use scripture to some extent, to verify their claims; but this is generally done without accuracy or care for the actual content or context of the sacred texts.

So...where do you find Mary's perpetual virginity in scripture?
Where do you find prayer beads in scripture?
Where do you find prayer to the saints in scripture?
Where do you find the veneration of bones and artifacts in scripture?
Where do you find indulgences in scripture?
Where do you find sacraments in scripture?
Where do you find sacraments in scripture?
All of those things are man-made traditions that have the illusion of holiness, but do nothing before God to make one holy.
My call is for this community to begin backing up claims with scripture. If you can't back it up, then let's acknowledge it as a mere opinion that is illegitimate as theology.

 

[MennoSota]

condescends?

Yes, God condescended to earth, making himself human for our sake.

 

[MennoSota]

Or just skip a whole book like Corinths. They were bad so dont learn about tongues in that book. Sola Scriptura. Sure. All theology from whoever or whatever group or denomination doesn't have it all right. If they don't like something they skip texts. Theo loog. Theo lied. Better just read the Bible.

No one has skipped the Corinthians. I have noted that they were immature, carnal Christians. Do you wish to emulate the Corinthians?

 

[MoreCoffee]

No one has skipped the Corinthians. I have noted that they were immature, carnal Christians. Do you wish to emulate the Corinthians?

The thinking of some of the Corinthian Christians was "carnal" but they were saints. Paul never called the Corinthian Christians "carnal Christians".

 

[popsthebuilder]

So...where do you find Mary's perpetual virginity in scripture?
Where do you find prayer beads in scripture?
Where do you find prayer to the saints in scripture?
Where do you find the veneration of bones and artifacts in scripture?
Where do you find indulgences in scripture?
Where do you find sacraments in scripture?
Where do you find sacraments in scripture?
All of those things are man-made traditions that have the illusion of holiness, but do nothing before God to make one holy.
My call is for this community to begin backing up claims with scripture. If you can't back it up, then let's acknowledge it as a mere opinion that is illegitimate as theology.

Woe there friend.

I didn't mean to say I agreed with many strange doctrines that seem to derive from the ancient roman Catholic church. What I meant is that he is quite versed in scripture; and not in the fashion of the parrot, but with some level of understanding. I've also found him to be rather maliable; having a slightly opened mind for different perspectives; regardless of his denomination or the proclamations there of.

You would do well not ridicule any for their denomination. What can be said about the strength or bredth of one's faith who has set in the very midsts and remnants of propagated misdirection by the greed of man, yet too is still devout, discerning, and zealous?

His faith is surely counted for righteousness, as is the faith of all believers. Do you think that upon judgement GOD will hold ones faith against them? Do you think the misdirection of a man, by other men, will be counted against him, or the ones ultimately responsible for the misdirection?

I don't generally agree with morecoffee on some of the finer points of lesser doctrines associated with his faith. I know through observation of the words he posts that his heart is close to the right or rather, good place, regardless of said doctrines. We won't be changing anyone's mind by slandering them or their denomination though.

To give a stern rebuke in the Spirit, for the sake of the member of the body of the Christ will never equate to attempted degradation of the faith or spirit of another who does not deny Christ.

Just to be clear; I do not agree with very much of the tradition of the arcc. That isn't to be misconstrued as me saying I am against any currently practicing catholic.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Yes, God condescended to earth, making himself human for our sake.

Ah.... I see.... Thank you for the explanation.

:deign,*stoop,*descend,*lower oneself,*demean oneself;*More

vouchsafe,*see fit,*consent

"he condescended to see us"