Rapture?

[NewCreation435]

When I was growing up I was told that the next event would be the rapture of the church. I was told that this rapture would be invisible and in a blind of an eye. Then the 7 years of tribulation would occur and then the 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth would happen soon after that.

I don't see any evidence in the Bible that the rapture would be invisible. Where do you fall in the teaching of the rapture? Do you think there will be one or is it the same thing as the second coming of Christ?

 

[psalms 91]

I think they are seperate and without fetting bogged down with particulars I believe that it will happen at the beginning of tribulation and during that time will be the marriage supper of the lamb

 

[Imalive]

dunno when but at least before the wrath cuz a bridegroom pooring down wrath on his bride is kinda weird. I believe we get raptured when we're holy and have told everyone the gospel.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Catholics don't do raptures in theology

:smirk:

 

[Imalive]

Catholics don't do raptures in theology

:smirk:

They get raptured anyway.

 

[MoreCoffee]

They get raptured anyway.

We call it being assumed into heaven and yes it does happen to Catholics on the last day after the last judgement. But you'll know that when you are assumed into heaven and are a Catholic after the last judgement

 

[TurtleHare]

I'll just leave this here about how that popular Rapture belief isn't what Paul was talking about in the second coming-

The notion of the rapture, or a sudden snatching of Christians up into the air, was invented in the 1830s by British preacher John Nelson Darby, founder of the Plymouth Brethren. Darby took the traditional understanding of Jesus’ second coming and divided it into two parts: first the so-called rapture, when he said Jesus would hover above the earth and snatch born-again Christians up to heaven for seven years. Then, according to Darby, after the rapture God would inflict seven years of tribulation upon the earth while Christians watch from heaven.

At the end of that seven-year period of death and destruction, rapture proponents believe Jesus will return to earth again for the third time to fight the battle of Armageddon and set up an earthly kingdom.

Proponents come up with their rapture chronology by cobbling together a reference in the Latin translation of Paul’s first letter to the Thessalonians, with three verses in Daniel and a verse from Revelation.
https://www.livinglutheran.org/2013/06/end-times/

 

[Imalive]

I'll just leave this here about how that popular Rapture belief isn't what Paul was talking about in the second coming-

The notion of the rapture, or a sudden snatching of Christians up into the air, was invented in the 1830s by British preacher John Nelson Darby, founder of the Plymouth Brethren. Darby took the traditional understanding of Jesus’ second coming and divided it into two parts: first the so-called rapture, when he said Jesus would hover above the earth and snatch born-again Christians up to heaven for seven years. Then, according to Darby, after the rapture God would inflict seven years of tribulation upon the earth while Christians watch from heaven.

At the end of that seven-year period of death and destruction, rapture proponents believe Jesus will return to earth again for the third time to fight the battle of Armageddon and set up an earthly kingdom.

Proponents come up with their rapture chronology by cobbling together a reference in the Latin translation of Paul’s first letter to the Thessalonians, with three verses in Daniel and a verse from Revelation.
https://www.livinglutheran.org/2013/06/end-times/

It's not invented in 1830.

Hermas tells us that he passed by a wild beast and met a virgin who saluted him saying, Hail O man.! He returned the greeting... Lady, hail! Then she asked... Has nothing crossed your path? Hermas replied... I was met by a beast of such a size that it could destroy peoples, but through the power of the Lord and His great mercy, I escaped from it... The virgin said... Well, did you escape from it, because you cast your care on God, and opened your heart to the Lord, believing that you can be saved by no other than His great and glorious name? You have escaped from great tribulation on account of your faith, and because you did not doubt in the presence of such a beast. God therefore, and tell the elect of the Lord His mighty deeds, and say to them that this beast is a type of the great tribulation that is coming. If ye prepare yourselves, and repent with all your heart, and turn to the Lord, it will be possible for you to escape it, if your heart be free and spotless in serving the Lord blamelessly."

Hermas, The Shepherd of Hermas,

Book I, fourth, ch. ii, also ch. iii)

This shows that the teaching was definitely in the early church of a pre-trib rapture, and that the teaching of the pre-trib rapture was not added in 1830, but to a restoration of the doctrine that had been lost when the church apostatized in the dark ages.

Revelation 3:10 (KJV)

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

The word "hour’ designates a time of coming trial, a period of tribulation that comes upon not only a part of the earth, but upon ‘all who dwell upon the earth."

The word for ‘dwell’ is not the normal "oikeo" but the strengthened "katoikeo" meaning all who are identified with the earth. Alford refers us to other examples in the Bible of this word being used, which shows it refers to "those who are not of the church of Christ".

Why would we be constantly exhorted to watch, if we could date the Antichrist’s coming, note esp. the date of the abomination of desolation, for if we were here, and knew that date, we have revealed in Scripture to the day, how many days after that is the second coming, and we would know the day of His return


https://www.armyofprophets.com/post...e-of-the-1830s-7899551?highlight=rapture+1830

This is from Murjahel, a preacher who used to post on cf.

 

[Albion]

If some practice that had disappeared from church life for over a thousand years suddenly was advocated or talked up by some non-conformist preacher, I think we can forgive the use of the word invented. There may be a better one to use, but I understood what was being referred to.

 

[Albion]

dunno when but at least before the wrath cuz a bridegroom pooring down wrath on his bride is kinda weird. I believe we get raptured when we're holy and have told everyone the gospel.

Here's a question. How true would it be to say that the Gospel by now has been preached to all nations?

 

[NewCreation435]

It's not invented in 1830.

Hermas tells us that he passed by a wild beast and met a virgin who saluted him saying, Hail O man.! He returned the greeting... Lady, hail! Then she asked... Has nothing crossed your path? Hermas replied... I was met by a beast of such a size that it could destroy peoples, but through the power of the Lord and His great mercy, I escaped from it... The virgin said... Well, did you escape from it, because you cast your care on God, and opened your heart to the Lord, believing that you can be saved by no other than His great and glorious name? You have escaped from great tribulation on account of your faith, and because you did not doubt in the presence of such a beast. God therefore, and tell the elect of the Lord His mighty deeds, and say to them that this beast is a type of the great tribulation that is coming. If ye prepare yourselves, and repent with all your heart, and turn to the Lord, it will be possible for you to escape it, if your heart be free and spotless in serving the Lord blamelessly."

Hermas, The Shepherd of Hermas,

Book I, fourth, ch. ii, also ch. iii)

This shows that the teaching was definitely in the early church of a pre-trib rapture, and that the teaching of the pre-trib rapture was not added in 1830, but to a restoration of the doctrine that had been lost when the church apostatized in the dark ages.

Revelation 3:10 (KJV)

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

The word "hour’ designates a time of coming trial, a period of tribulation that comes upon not only a part of the earth, but upon ‘all who dwell upon the earth."

The word for ‘dwell’ is not the normal "oikeo" but the strengthened "katoikeo" meaning all who are identified with the earth. Alford refers us to other examples in the Bible of this word being used, which shows it refers to "those who are not of the church of Christ".

Why would we be constantly exhorted to watch, if we could date the Antichrist’s coming, note esp. the date of the abomination of desolation, for if we were here, and knew that date, we have revealed in Scripture to the day, how many days after that is the second coming, and we would know the day of His return


https://www.armyofprophets.com/post...e-of-the-1830s-7899551?highlight=rapture+1830

This is from Murjahel, a preacher who used to post on cf.

So why would I have been taught that the rapture would be invisible?

 

[Imalive]

Here's a question. How true would it be to say that the Gospel by now has been preached to all nations?

Of the 7.3 billion people in the world, 3 billion live among unreached people groups of the world and 1.6 billion are completely unevangelized. (Joshua Project; Barrett and Johnson 2001, 427

There's enough ppl even in Holland who have no idea what the gospel is. Before I got saved I never heard Jesus died for my sins.

 

[Imalive]

So why would I have been taught that the rapture would be invisible?

Invisible? I guess ppl will notice if a bunch all of a sudden disappear.

 

[MennoSota]

I don't think the rapture matters in my daily life. My task is to be an ambassador of God's Kingdom (2 Corinthians 5) and call people to reconcile with the King before the judgment.
Whether I go through tribulation or not is of little significance to this moment.

 

[Albion]

Of the 7.3 billion people in the world, 3 billion live among unreached people groups of the world and 1.6 billion are completely unevangelized. (Joshua Project; Barrett and Johnson 2001, 427

There's enough ppl even in Holland who have no idea what the gospel is. Before I got saved I never heard Jesus died for my sins.

OK, but the Biblical commission is to go into the world and preach the Gospel to all nations. It is not to secure the conversion of every last human being on Earth (and then the end will come).

Is there any land, in this day and age, to which the Gospel has not been preached?

 

[NewCreation435]

I don't think the rapture matters in my daily life. My task is to be an ambassador of God's Kingdom (2 Corinthians 5) and call people to reconcile with the King before the judgment.
Whether I go through tribulation or not is of little significance to this moment.

I'm not sure that I really believe it is a separate event from the second coming though i use to. I believe as you said that Jesus repeatedly taught that we are to be ready at all times for His coming Matthew 24:42-51, 25:13.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I'm not sure that I really believe it is a separate event from the second coming though i use to. I believe as you said that Jesus repeatedly taught that we are to be ready at all times for His coming Matthew 24:42-51, 25:13.

Careful, you might become a Catholic with thinking like that

 

[Imalive]

OK, but the Biblical commission is to go into the world and preach the Gospel to all nations. It is not to secure the conversion of every last human being on Earth (and then the end will come).

Is there any land, in this day and age, to which the Gospel has not been preached?

I have no idea.
https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-...heard-of-Jesus-and-the-gospel-of-Christianity

 

[MoreCoffee]

The end is nigh!

Remember you heard it here first :smirk:

 

[Pedrito]

There was a time (which may be continuing) when Evangelical churches were strongly pushing the idea that the Rapture was imminent and could occur at any time.

Pedrito remembers one preacher challenging his audience (sorry, the congregation he was preaching to) with the question, “What would you do tomorrow, if you knew for certain that Jesus was returning the next day?”

Pedrto’s internal response was, “Exactly the same as what I’d be doing if I didn’t know.”

Whether or not the idea of the Rapture as commonly taught is correct, the job of a true Christian is to be faithful unto death, or until the change at the Return.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53:
“51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.”

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18: “13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.”


Pedrito wouldn’t want to get a rupture thinking about the rapture.