Transgender in military...or not

[tango]

Being gay or transgender isn't a choice that you decided if you are or not its actually a thing your born with and no prayers or therapy will change that or knock it out of them,its determined in the womb long before we are actually born into the world, so if you had the choice of being killed by the enemy or some one standing there to protect you being gay or trans would you let them protect you or say hang on your gay you shouldn't be here doing this job... and then get yourself killed .. I don't think so really do you .. it shouldn't make any difference what a soldier is heterosexual doesn't mean your fearless and a lot of troops come back with Ptsd its not just found trans or gays...

The trouble with this line of thinking is that it takes away personal responsibility.

It might be true that you can't help who you love, but you can help what you do about it. On the issue of homosexuality maybe a man can't help being attracted to other men but he can decide whether or not to act on the attraction. In that regard it's really not all that different to issues facing the heterosexual - I can't help being attracted to the pretty young thing at work who's young enough to be my daughter but if I were to act on the attraction I don't imagine my wife would be very interested in the argument "God made me this way".

It's also far more complex than "if someone is willing to serve, let them serve". As I mentioned above the military doesn't allow people with certain conditions to serve because they need medication that can't be guaranteed in a war zone. It's not much use having diabetics on the front line if there are problems with the supply chain and as a result there hasn't been any insulin available for a week. Likewise if someone is undergoing gender realignment, what happens if their hormone treatments are unavailable in a war zone? There's also the simple matter of war zones tending to be very basic so as soon as one person starts imposing specific requirements they start to compromise combat effectiveness.

In a simplistic one-on-one situation your point would stand very well. If I were being attacked in the street and someone came to my aid I really couldn't care less what's between their legs, who they share a bed with, or how they self-identify - I'd be thankful for the help. In a war zone the overall cohesiveness of the individual units and the military group as a whole is potentially compromised by the presence of people who need special treatment, whatever form that special treatment happens to take.

 

[hotrhymez]

I read somewhere (I'm not sure how true this is, to be fair) that the suicide rate among transgenders is much higher than the average person..so wouldnt that be a huge risk? Like for example..a transgender person could attempt suicide while serving and end up accidentally killing a fellow soldier in their attempt? I know its probably very unlikely but its still a possibility and something to think about thats all I'm saying...

 

[Lamb]

I read somewhere (I'm not sure how true this is, to be fair) that the suicide rate among transgenders is much higher than the average person..so wouldnt that be a huge risk? Like for example..a transgender person could attempt suicide while serving and end up accidentally killing a fellow soldier in their attempt? I know its probably very unlikely but its still a possibility and something to think about thats all I'm saying...

Yes, there was data (probably on one of the links I provided earlier?) that transgenders suffer from depression and I think it gave a percentage? I read a lot of links but don't know if that one was among the ones I posted. I believe it was Hedrick who brought up and linked to a page that told of why they suffer...because of the bullying and stress surrounding their circumstances. And that's reasonable, but it still doesn't remove the depression. Mental health issues such as depression disqualify people from being in the military. Since the number of trans is high for depression, it seems that they lumped them all together instead of taking a risk, doesn't it?

 

[psalms 91]

In the military you learn that the unit comes first and the individual takes second place and for unit cohesiveness it seems reasonable that they would be banned from serving in addition to the cost involved although I guess they could get around that by not providing the things and surgeries for transgender and make that clear upon enlistment.

 

[meluckycharms]

Anyone who spreads hate about someone based on the way that person was born is a bigot. It has nothing to do with the military or if I've been a part of it. I don't see it as "serving" anyway. (And why would I chose to be part of an institution with which I disagree in almost all things?)

I'm actually quite disappointed that this thread was even started. It exposes the ugly underbelly of much of Christendom.

How is stating a fact that being transgender is a medical condition that should disqualify you from the military "spreading hate"? Is it spreading hate that people are unable to serve because they have diabetes? It it spreading hate to say that you can't serve in the military if you are too old? Serving in the military is not a right, it's a privilege.

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[meluckycharms]

Anyone who spreads hate about someone based on the way that person was born is a bigot.

So based on your definition, I am obviously not a bigot. I am happy to hear that.

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[meluckycharms]

Sorry, Lady Lammikins. That doesn't work for me. Just because it's in the news and because some website(those are always true, we know) are talking about it, it does not make it okay to put red meat out there in front of LGBTQ haters to vent their ugly views. I will always stand against this and any other hate perpetrated against any of God's children.

Remember that you are on a Christian forum. I don't assume you'd find too many people supporting anything transgender here. Perhaps you are in the wrong forum.

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[meluckycharms]

Hate? Seriously? Is it also some form of hate to disqualify people who are twice their ideal weight and people who can't shoot straight?

It really does nothing for a cause (any cause) to simply write off anything less than gushing approval as hatred and bigotry.

Yeah...lol. Next we will here on the news about the protests on military body shaming! Lol

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[meluckycharms]

Weight and shooting straight are things that can be changed. One's sexuality cannot. Your post is asinine.

Diabetes and HIV are things that cannot be changed either. Yet they still disqualify you from the military. Your point is...?

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[meluckycharms]

As far as combat effectiveness goes, maybe it's the straight, homophobic men who need to be banned. Perhaps they're the ones who make the military ineffective. Just sayin'.

Perhaps you should join the military so you can have some idea of what you are talking about.

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[meluckycharms]

Once again, what an asinine comment. Those who are on the meds and hormones required are very committed.

It is also a fact that anyone who is medically dependent cannot deploy. Meaning transgender individuals requiring hormone therapy. So if they cannot deploy, what benefit would they serve the country and is it worth the cost?

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[meluckycharms]

Did you even stop to think for even a moment as to what some of the underlying reasons for mental health issues with trans people might be? Could it be because of the hate that people like you heap upon them? What would your mental health be like if you were put into their situation? You comments, others on this thread, are asinine. And I will keep using that word. They are also hateful and unChristlike.

Or perhaps the same medical condition that causes someone to be transgendered also increases depression and hormone imbalances. I would be depressed too if my testicles were cut out.

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[meluckycharms]

Being gay or transgender isn't a choice that you decided if you are or not its actually a thing your born with and no prayers or therapy will change that or knock it out of them,its determined in the womb long before we are actually born into the world, so if you had the choice of being killed by the enemy or some one standing there to protect you being gay or trans would you let them protect you or say hang on your gay you shouldn't be here doing this job... and then get yourself killed .. I don't think so really do you .. it shouldn't make any difference what a soldier is heterosexual doesn't mean your fearless and a lot of troops come back with Ptsd its not just found trans or gays...

Given your view on being gay/transgender not being a choice, how do you rationalize all the scriptures in both the NT and OT that forbid it? This is a Christian forum after all.

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[hedrick]

Yes, there was data (probably on one of the links I provided earlier?) that transgenders suffer from depression and I think it gave a percentage? I read a lot of links but don't know if that one was among the ones I posted. I believe it was Hedrick who brought up and linked to a page that told of why they suffer...because of the bullying and stress surrounding their circumstances. And that's reasonable, but it still doesn't remove the depression. Mental health issues such as depression disqualify people from being in the military. Since the number of trans is high for depression, it seems that they lumped them all together instead of taking a risk, doesn't it?

Are you suggesting that bullying will occur even in the military? So they should ban trans because they don't think they can keep their own people from bullying them? I'd probably be willing to accept some kind of psychological screening. I think that's done anyway, isn't it?

I'm more sympathetic with arguments about ongoing medical treatments that might not work in the field, much like diabetics that require insulin. Not all trans have that issue though.

 

[Lamb]

Are you suggesting that bullying will occur even in the military? So they should ban trans because they don't think they can keep their own people from bullying them? I'd probably be willing to accept some kind of psychological screening. I think that's done anyway, isn't it?

I'm more sympathetic with arguments about ongoing medical treatments that might not work in the field, much like diabetics that require insulin. Not all trans have that issue though.

No, I did not state that. What I said was that I thought that you brought up about WHY they suffer from depression and I think there was a link provided that went into detail about the bullying and stress they have endured in their lives causing said depression. I did not state anything about bullying in the military. Nor did I say anything about banning them because they couldn't stop people from bullying them. That's ridiculous.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Donald's troublesome tweet is the ridiculous thing. The man is a master of tweeting stupid comments and tweeting things that harm people. The faster the USA impeaches him the better it will be for everybody.

 

[Lamb]

Donald's troublesome tweet is the ridiculous thing. The man is a master of tweeting stupid comments and tweeting things that harm people. The faster the USA impeaches him the better it will be for everybody.

I don't use Twitter and I don't believe the President of the US should be communicating this way, but as I wrote this...I got to thinking. Some of the best leaders communicate all the time with their workers/followers/etc... President Trump is also a controlling person so he's accomplishing 2 things with this constant tweets, he's remaining in control by himself and trying to let people know what's going on behind closed doors.

 

[tango]

Given your view on being gay/transgender not being a choice, how do you rationalize all the scriptures in both the NT and OT that forbid it? This is a Christian forum after all.

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Scripture doesn't prohibit being gay, it talks of gay activity rather than desires. Having desires isn't sinful but the way we act, or decline to act, on those desires may be sinful. A man having desires for another man is no more sinful than me being aware that I could steal the wad of cash from the unlocked office or being attracted to my secretary.

 

[psalms 91]

I dont want to debate this but doesnt the New testament hold us to a higher standard than in the Old? Our very thoughts without action are sin I believe

 

[tango]

I dont want to debate this but doesnt the New testament hold us to a higher standard than in the Old? Our very thoughts without action are sin I believe

Only if you dwell on them. The difference is between being tempted to sin and actually sinning.