Your tithe doesn't have to go to the church

NewCreation435

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"It’s not that giving to your local church isn’t important—it is, leaders told the National Association of Evangelicals (NAE).
But 76 percent say it’s fine if you want to give part of your tithe to a different ministry.
“Many evangelical leaders do not believe there’s a biblical requirement to give exactly 10 percent to the local church,” NAE president Leith Anderson said. “Giving generously out of what God has done for us is the main message.”"

rest of the article here
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ne...e-doesnt-have-to-go-to-church-ministries.html

Is it okay to give your tithe to other organizations outside of the church you attend? Do you believe in tithing? Is it an outdated concept or does it apply to New Testament believers?
 

Albion

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Personally, I don't believe that any Christian has an obligation to tithe, because that's a regulation from the Old Testament that no longer applies. BUT, if I did, I would think that giving the tithe to some evangelical or similar organization or cause that is not connected to the congregation would be appropriate in that it's for the work of the whole church. Still, it would be very shortsighted and wrong not to understand that the local congregation (and national church if applicable) has bills to pay and needs some of the contributions that the members intend to give to someone or other.
 

Tigger

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We are not mandated to give 10% nor restricted to only give 10% in the NT but the OT 'principles' are great guidelines. Churches typically give to both local and global charitable organizations so by giving to and through your local congregation is kinda getting a two for one deal :friends:
 

Imalive

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"It’s not that giving to your local church isn’t important—it is, leaders told the National Association of Evangelicals (NAE).
But 76 percent say it’s fine if you want to give part of your tithe to a different ministry.
“Many evangelical leaders do not believe there’s a biblical requirement to give exactly 10 percent to the local church,” NAE president Leith Anderson said. “Giving generously out of what God has done for us is the main message.”"

rest of the article here
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ne...e-doesnt-have-to-go-to-church-ministries.html

Is it okay to give your tithe to other organizations outside of the church you attend? Do you believe in tithing? Is it an outdated concept or does it apply to New Testament believers?

Yes I think it's okay, but why would you do that if your church uses it well? If some pastor uses it for his luxurous lifestyle or a huge building I don't give a cent anyway, but why on earth would I go to that church? People need to give at least tithes so the poor can be taken care of. In Acts they had all in common.
 

Josiah

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We are not mandated to give 10% nor restricted to only give 10% in the NT but the OT 'principles' are great guidelines. Churches typically give to both local and global charitable organizations so by giving to and through your local congregation is kinda getting a two for one deal :friends:


... what he said.
 

MoreCoffee

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If you have misgivings about how your organisation handles money then give whatever you think is needed to cover costs and give any extra to charities that you trust or find another organisation with a local congregation and swap.
 

tango

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"It’s not that giving to your local church isn’t important—it is, leaders told the National Association of Evangelicals (NAE).
But 76 percent say it’s fine if you want to give part of your tithe to a different ministry.
“Many evangelical leaders do not believe there’s a biblical requirement to give exactly 10 percent to the local church,” NAE president Leith Anderson said. “Giving generously out of what God has done for us is the main message.”"

rest of the article here
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ne...e-doesnt-have-to-go-to-church-ministries.html

Is it okay to give your tithe to other organizations outside of the church you attend? Do you believe in tithing? Is it an outdated concept or does it apply to New Testament believers?

I think the concept of tithing (in the sense of giving specifically 10%) is not only outdated but one of the things prone to particular abuse.

Firstly the tithe related to produce rather than cash, and was introduced in the time of the 12 tribes, when the Levites were the priests and not permitted to work. If you're not permitted to work you still have to eat, so the concept of 11 tribes each giving 10% of their crop/harvest/whatever to the 12th works. It means that 11 tribes get 90% of a crop and one gets an effective 110%, which is enough to meet their needs with some surplus to distribute to anyone else who had a partcular need.

Today there's nothing to prevent a church minister from also holding down a secular job so the tithe ceases to be relevant, at least in the form described in the OT. That doesn't mean there's no need to give - if people want to meet in a church building someone has to pay for it to be heated, maintained etc, and if people want the pastor to regard the ministry as a full-time job then s/he needs to be able to put food on the table etc so will need some form of salary/stipend.

There are a few reasons I take issue with the idea of a strict 10%.

Firstly it places an undue burden on those with the lowest incomes (it's far less of a sacrifice to give 10% if you're making $500k than if you're making $15k) while those with the highest incomes get off relatively lightly. This is only exacerbated by some of the greedier church leaders who demand that members give 10% of their pre-tax income, and even go as far as monitoring what people give and challenging them if someone in leadership believes they are giving less than 10% of their income (I've heard of this happening, and to be honest it's the sort of thing that would result in me dropping my giving to the church to zero)

Secondly it can create a sense of entitlement within the church leadership, particularly if the church is in a wealthy area and, to pick up on your original point, if the church assumes it is entitled to 10% of the earnings of its entire membership. It's fair to say that if people want the church to do certain things they need to be willing to provide the means (financial and other) to make it happen. At the same time it's not good if the church leadership figures that the new couple who started attending look pretty well-to-do, probably making $150k or more, and therefore expect an extra $15k in the collection plate every year.

Thirdly it rather flies in the face of what Paul said about "let each give as he purposes in his heart" and "God loves a cheerful giver". Jesus told the disciples how the widow who put in next to nothing would be rewarded more greatly than those who put in a lot, simply because she gave everything she had while the others essentially fiddled with their spare change and threw some in. This overlaps with the first point - the person making $1m a year could almost certainly write a check for $10k and barely notice the money had gone, while the person making $15k who gave $2k would have to dig much deeper into their resources to make it happen.

Fourthly there's so much more to Christian giving than simply handing over money, and the sense of a tithe can create a sense that all we need to do is write a check each week or each month and that meets our obligations. It makes the process of giving too easy, it shifts the burden onto someone else, if all we need to do is remember to put a check in the collection plate each week and from there we don't need to worry about anything else.


So to answer the original question, I think the tithe is an outdated concept but that we should give, and that giving should be directed partly to our church and partly to whatever other ventures appeal to us. That might mean supporting specific charities (Christian or otherwise) and might mean giving directly to people if we see a need.
 

TurtleHare

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Well, now, isn't the 10% a starting point and not the pin point for giving and it wasn't for making the men rich who do the preaching which puts a stick in my craw and I prefer going to a church that does different outreach with the money after paying bills. A mandatory tithe isn't meaningful if you do it once a week, oh sorry that's those who don't want to do communion weekly. hehe
 

NewCreation435

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Well, now, isn't the 10% a starting point and not the pin point for giving and it wasn't for making the men rich who do the preaching which puts a stick in my craw and I prefer going to a church that does different outreach with the money after paying bills. A mandatory tithe isn't meaningful if you do it once a week, oh sorry that's those who don't want to do communion weekly. hehe

if it is the starting point that most church attenders aren't doing that much. It is a small minority.
 

NewCreation435

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Well, now, isn't the 10% a starting point and not the pin point for giving and it wasn't for making the men rich who do the preaching which puts a stick in my craw and I prefer going to a church that does different outreach with the money after paying bills. A mandatory tithe isn't meaningful if you do it once a week, oh sorry that's those who don't want to do communion weekly. hehe

if it is the starting point that most church attenders aren't doing that much. It is a small minority.
 

psalms 91

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if it is the starting point that most church attenders aren't doing that much. It is a small minority.

If you want to really get down to it there are tithes, alms, gifts, etc. Yes, tithes are only a part
 

NewCreation435

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If you want to really get down to it there are tithes, alms, gifts, etc. Yes, tithes are only a part

Yes, I realize that. But the article is about tithing. Which we know that only a small minority do. At least they do in terms of giving to the church. Is the fact that this is an unpopular teaching because it is not biblical or because we don't want to give that much? Is saying that it is an Old Testament teaching reason to discount it? Then does that make other teaching in the Old Testament irrelevant now also.
 

tango

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Yes, I realize that. But the article is about tithing. Which we know that only a small minority do. At least they do in terms of giving to the church. Is the fact that this is an unpopular teaching because it is not biblical or because we don't want to give that much? Is saying that it is an Old Testament teaching reason to discount it? Then does that make other teaching in the Old Testament irrelevant now also.

With Old Testament teachings we need to consider the extent to which they were cultural and the extent to which they were eternal. If we want to stick to all the OT teachings we end up in all sorts of quandaries in our current society. Leviticus 15 alone renders much of modern church life all but unsustainable, unless we're going to require women to stay away from church during their menstrual cycle so as not to leave the furniture ritually unclean.

Lev 19:9-10 talks of how we must not harvest right to the edges of our fields, leaving the gleanings for the poor and the traveler.
Lev 19:19 prohibits clothes of mixed fibers, which rules out a good chunk of modern day clothing.
Lev 19:27 prohibits most modern haircuts chosen by men.

The detailed list of what foods are clean and unclean rules out quite a lot of food that is popular today, and the detailed instructions for how animals were to be killed renders much otherwise acceptable food unacceptable.

If one of God's commands is still relevant today then the fact it might be inconvenient isn't, in and of itself, a reason to stop observing it. It's just worth looking to understand whether a commandment was intended for the people of Israel to set them apart from other surrounding tribes, or whether it was intended to apply universally through the ages.
 

NewCreation435

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With Old Testament teachings we need to consider the extent to which they were cultural and the extent to which they were eternal. If we want to stick to all the OT teachings we end up in all sorts of quandaries in our current society. Leviticus 15 alone renders much of modern church life all but unsustainable, unless we're going to require women to stay away from church during their menstrual cycle so as not to leave the furniture ritually unclean.

Lev 19:9-10 talks of how we must not harvest right to the edges of our fields, leaving the gleanings for the poor and the traveler.
Lev 19:19 prohibits clothes of mixed fibers, which rules out a good chunk of modern day clothing.
Lev 19:27 prohibits most modern haircuts chosen by men.

The detailed list of what foods are clean and unclean rules out quite a lot of food that is popular today, and the detailed instructions for how animals were to be killed renders much otherwise acceptable food unacceptable.

If one of God's commands is still relevant today then the fact it might be inconvenient isn't, in and of itself, a reason to stop observing it. It's just worth looking to understand whether a commandment was intended for the people of Israel to set them apart from other surrounding tribes, or whether it was intended to apply universally through the ages.

Yes, the rituals regarding the law aren't relevant anymore regarding things like sacrifices and such. The law was meant according to the New Testament to be a tutor to lead us to Christ. i wasn't really referring to Old Testament commands about foot washing or food requirements. I meant other commands such as do not murder, do not steal, honor your father and mother
 

Imalive

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Yes, I realize that. But the article is about tithing. Which we know that only a small minority do. At least they do in terms of giving to the church. Is the fact that this is an unpopular teaching because it is not biblical or because we don't want to give that much? Is saying that it is an Old Testament teaching reason to discount it? Then does that make other teaching in the Old Testament irrelevant now also.

In Holland it's very unpopular cause ppl are stingy but I saw one guy who said it was not N.T. He gave more than 40 percent cause in Acts they had all in common.
 

MoreCoffee

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Yes, the rituals regarding the law aren't relevant anymore regarding things like sacrifices and such. The law was meant according to the New Testament to be a tutor to lead us to Christ. i wasn't really referring to Old Testament commands about foot washing or food requirements. I meant other commands such as do not murder, do not steal, honor your father and mother

It ought to be unpopular because it is not commanded for Christians and that is so because Christians do not have one out of twelve tribes with no means of earning an income apart from the tithes of the other 11 tribes. My guess is that in Catholic city and suburban parish churches the ratio between priests and parish families is close to 1 in 100 on average and most parishes would have only one other paid employee so one fifth of a tithe is about what one would expect and that can be calculated down to about 2% of one's (gross or maybe net) income.
 

tango

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Yes, the rituals regarding the law aren't relevant anymore regarding things like sacrifices and such. The law was meant according to the New Testament to be a tutor to lead us to Christ. i wasn't really referring to Old Testament commands about foot washing or food requirements. I meant other commands such as do not murder, do not steal, honor your father and mother

Sure, the only question is that as soon as you're asking whether this rule or that rule still applies you still have to define where you draw the line between what does still apply and what does not.

If the OT prohibitions against murder and adultery still apply, why not the prohibition against eating pork? And if eating pork is now allowed, why not murder and adultery? If we're now allowed to trim the edges of our beards, are we allowed to lie with animals?

Silly extremes at each end and one clearly doesn't imply the other, but it does highlight the trouble of figuring what is cultural and what is eternal, no?
 

psalms 91

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Sure, the only question is that as soon as you're asking whether this rule or that rule still applies you still have to define where you draw the line between what does still apply and what does not.

If the OT prohibitions against murder and adultery still apply, why not the prohibition against eating pork? And if eating pork is now allowed, why not murder and adultery? If we're now allowed to trim the edges of our beards, are we allowed to lie with animals?

Silly extremes at each end and one clearly doesn't imply the other, but it does highlight the trouble of figuring what is cultural and what is eternal, no?
It says that all foods are lawful in the New, that does not mean that they are wise or healthy choices. There was a reason for unclean foods that today is backed up by science. Sure we can cook them to kill bacteria but it does not kill what it can do to your body.
 

tango

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It says that all foods are lawful in the New, that does not mean that they are wise or healthy choices. There was a reason for unclean foods that today is backed up by science. Sure we can cook them to kill bacteria but it does not kill what it can do to your body.

Sure, foods are lawful in the NT, hence the OT requirement no longer applies to us. But what about wearing clothes of mixed fibers, trimming the edges of your beard, harvesting your crops right to the edges of the field and so on? Somewhere between ceasing to observe requirements like these, and ceasing to observe the requirements to not murder or commit adultery is a line that can be sensibly identified such that it isn't purely a matter of personal conviction.
 

Imalive

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Sure, foods are lawful in the NT, hence the OT requirement no longer applies to us. But what about wearing clothes of mixed fibers, trimming the edges of your beard, harvesting your crops right to the edges of the field and so on? Somewhere between ceasing to observe requirements like these, and ceasing to observe the requirements to not murder or commit adultery is a line that can be sensibly identified such that it isn't purely a matter of personal conviction.

The laws from Moses we don't have to keep they said in Acts. Just no blood, suffocated and uncleanness. But the moral law isn't done away, like don't murder, the 10 commandments. Love your neighbour as yourself. Don't shut your heart if you see a brother w out clothes or food is N.T. too.
And the rich ones who didn't pay the laborers who were getting their harvest in got a warning.
They say tithes is from before the law cause Abraham did it too and then its a principle from God. Jesus said about the pharisees tithing: they had to love their neighbour and not neglect tithing and stuff, but they were only tithing, yet robbing from the widows, which you see some wealthy pastors do too.
I don't really care if you have to tithe or not. Ever since I started to tithe I got out of financial problems myself and I find it antisocial to keep it all for myself and let my ex rot. Yet if I go to the church from my mom where the pastor has money enough, I don't even give an offering.
 
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