Why doesn't the Bible address the topic of finding a spouse in more detail?

[Lucian Hodoboc]

Do you think that the Bible should address the topic of finding a spouse in more detail? Personally, I kind of do. When it comes to romantic relationships between men and women, there are a lot of commandments, but not enough instructions. Don't divorce, don't lust, find a partner if you don't want to burn with desire, keep the marriage bed pure, don't deprive each other of sexual intercourse except through mutual consent for short periods of time etc.

These are all good pieces of advice, but what about some tips on what to do if you are very ugly, disabled or in some other way socially unable to find a romantic partner or to sustain a marriage? Do exceptions apply for these people, like they applied in case of King David when he ate from the bread that he was not supposed to eat? Nope. No advice available for those people.

 

[Lamb]

I never thought of this. So I Googled...and of course I find a page that gives the goofy bible verses as a joke so I will spare you those and not list them. They're kind of funny though in a way.

It's an interesting question you bring up and I don't have an answer. Wish I did.

 

[tango]

Do you think that the Bible should address the topic of finding a spouse in more detail? Personally, I kind of do. When it comes to romantic relationships between men and women, there are a lot of commandments, but not enough instructions. Don't divorce, don't lust, find a partner if you don't want to burn with desire, keep the marriage bed pure, don't deprive each other of sexual intercourse except through mutual consent for short periods of time etc.

These are all good pieces of advice, but what about some tips on what to do if you are very ugly, disabled or in some other way socially unable to find a romantic partner or to sustain a marriage? Do exceptions apply for these people, like they applied in case of King David when he ate from the bread that he was not supposed to eat? Nope. No advice available for those people.

It certainly seems that in this day and age it's much harder to find a partner if you are physically imperfect in a significant and immediately obvious way. That said, I can't help thinking that if you can find someone who is willing to look past a physical imperfection you are likely to have found someone who will stay with you for the long term. After all, if you marry someone who is physically perfect in every imaginable way there's no guarantee that they won't suffer an accident or a major health complication.

When the Bible is silent on something I tend to think it's because it doesn't matter. The Bible isn't about dating tips or ways to impress someone. Our culture has become very shallow in so many ways and because of that it's not entirely surprising that the Bible doesn't specifically address some of the issues in the modern day dating game. When the Bible was written people didn't hop onto Tinder looking for nothing more than to get laid so there's no specific mention of that, just general rules on God's plan for sexual expression.

Much of modern culture seems geared around the process of dating, as if the best thing to do is little more than hop onto an app, swipe right until you find someone attractive, then message them and hope they find you attractive, then rinse and repeat until something sticks. It looks to move from nothing straight to a romantic relationship with no sense of finding out first whether you even have anything in common. But then so much about modern relationships seems to focus on "me, me, me" rather than "we, we, we". In any relationship, romantic or otherwise, if people are only interested in meeting their own needs what results is growing selfishness that ultimately breaks the relationship.

This is a serious question - what kind of advice were you hoping the Bible would contain?

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

This is a serious question - what kind of advice were you hoping the Bible would contain?

Well, you know, stuff like, what to do if you're a human who was given a high libido living in a world in which masturbation is prohibited while suffering from an illness that makes it impossible for you to even engage in sexual intercourse without risking death, much less be able to work to support a family. And no, I don't mean only men. There are women with a high libido too.

 

[JRT]

I suspect that in Biblical societies most marriages were arranged through a third party --- this is true of a great many tribal societies. This may be a large factor in the questions asked in the OP.

 

[Albion]

Maybe it is because the Bible, Holy Scripture, revelation exists for a purpose.

What would that purpose be? Anyone? Anyone?

I notice that no one ever suggests that it is meant as advice on how to bake cookies...or what mutual fund to buy...or what car is best. But as advice for the lovelorn? We we need help from somewhere or other on how to deal with a hundred or more things every day, don't we? :sweat:







/

 

[tango]

Well, you know, stuff like, what to do if you're a human who was given a high libido living in a world in which masturbation is prohibited while suffering from an illness that makes it impossible for you to even engage in sexual intercourse without risking death, much less be able to work to support a family. And no, I don't mean only men. There are women with a high libido too.

Is it any different to trying to figure what to do if you have an unusually strong desire for material wealth but lack the skills to earn more than minimum wage? It's natural to have desires, all sorts of desires, but sometimes questions sound as if they are coming from a position of "I want this, how do I get it?" when perhaps it's better to step back and ask whether it's the right thing to have at all. These days it seems just about everything is defined by sex and sexuality, and our worth is defined by how much sex we have. Sometimes I wonder if people genuinely think that if their sexual desires are not met in full something is wrong. And yes, there are people out there who live like playboys, satisfying their every hedonistic desire. The vast majority of us don't live like that, often having to accept that some things (sexual or otherwise) just aren't available.

The Bible doesn't say anything about what a married woman is supposed to do if her husband suffers an accident or illness that leaves him unable to perform in the bedroom either. Presumably it figures that the marriage is about more than just what you do in the bedroom.

I'm curious here, what sort of condition are you describing that means sexual intercourse risks death but masturbation does not?

 

[tango]

I suspect that in Biblical societies most marriages were arranged through a third party --- this is true of a great many tribal societies. This may be a large factor in the questions asked in the OP.

I don't imagine the idea of working for seven years in exchange for someone's daughter in marriage, regardless of what the daughter thought of the arrangement, would sit very well with modern sensibilities.

 

[TurtleHare]

I suspect that in Biblical societies most marriages were arranged through a third party --- this is true of a great many tribal societies. This may be a large factor in the questions asked in the OP.

Yep yep, romance and love weren't part of the deal cuz get rid of the daughter and grow the son's family to gain more sons and get more land and it was all about multiplying each generation. If the son had many children he was considered blessed by God which is kinda why some men married more than one wife or was it because they had the high libido, I could be mistaken on that point there.

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

Is it any different to trying to figure what to do if you have an unusually strong desire for material wealth but lack the skills to earn more than minimum wage?

Absolutely. It's quite different. The Bible is pretty clear on the fact that human sexuality is a good thing when used according to God's Will, while the pursuit of material riches is not. From the very first chapter, the Bible makes it clear that God didn't think it was good for man to be alone (Genesis 2:18). God told people to be fruitful and multiply (Genesis 1:28). Jesus confirms this in Mark 10. The apostle Paul acknowledges that not everyone has the gift of celibacy (1 Corinthians 7:7) and makes it clear that is is better to marry than to burn (1 Corinthians 7:9). Comparing the innate desire to procreate that was given to us by God with the selfish desire for material gain is a bit of a stretch. Greed is a sin as it places the idol of financial gain above God. Wanting to marry and have children means desiring to do one of the things that God commanded all of us to do.

It's natural to have desires, all sorts of desires, but sometimes questions sound as if they are coming from a position of "I want this, how do I get it?" when perhaps it's better to step back and ask whether it's the right thing to have at all.

Well, considering that you have the desire for "this", that the majority of people have "this" and the Bible does not condemn "this" (1 Corithians 7:28 - "even if you do marry, you have not sinned"), then why would it not be the right thing to have?

These days it seems just about everything is defined by sex and sexuality, and our worth is defined by how much sex we have. Sometimes I wonder if people genuinely think that if their sexual desires are not met in full something is wrong. And yes, there are people out there who live like playboys, satisfying their every hedonistic desire. The vast majority of us don't live like that, often having to accept that some things (sexual or otherwise) just aren't available.

I don't know what you're trying to accomplish through this straw man argument, but my original post was about finding a spouse in order to avoid living in sexual immorality, so what does sexual hedonism have to do with the topic?
Not having your sexual and emotional desires met does have a damaging effect on people's health. It's been scientifically proven time and time again. Science is just catching up with the Bible by proving what God said from the beginning: it is not good for man to be single.

The Bible doesn't say anything about what a married woman is supposed to do if her husband suffers an accident or illness that leaves him unable to perform in the bedroom either. Presumably it figures that the marriage is about more than just what you do in the bedroom.

You're right. Marriage is more than just what you do in the bedroom. That's why my thread addresses the issue of finding a spouse, not the issue of finding a sex partner. As for what a married woman should do in the case you presented, my guess is that masturbation within marriage, as long as the object of your desire is your spouse, not pornography, is not a sin.

I'm curious here, what sort of condition are you describing that means sexual intercourse risks death but masturbation does not?

Any, really... Masturbation does not require the same amount of effort as sexual intercourse.

 

[tango]

Absolutely. It's quite different. The Bible is pretty clear on the fact that human sexuality is a good thing when used according to God's Will, while the pursuit of material riches is not. From the very first chapter, the Bible makes it clear that God didn't think it was good for man to be alone (Genesis 2:18). God told people to be fruitful and multiply (Genesis 1:28). Jesus confirms this in Mark 10. The apostle Paul acknowledges that not everyone has the gift of celibacy (1 Corinthians 7:7) and makes it clear that is is better to marry than to burn (1 Corinthians 7:9). Comparing the innate desire to procreate that was given to us by God with the selfish desire for material gain is a bit of a stretch. Greed is a sin as it places the idol of financial gain above God. Wanting to marry and have children means desiring to do one of the things that God commanded all of us to do.

Sexuality is a good thing, when used in accordance with God's will. What if it's not God's will for someone to marry at all?

Well, considering that you have the desire for "this", that the majority of people have "this" and the Bible does not condemn "this" (1 Corithians 7:28 - "even if you do marry, you have not sinned"), then why would it not be the right thing to have?

The fact we have a desire doesn't create any entitlement to have that desire fulfilled.

I don't know what you're trying to accomplish through this straw man argument, but my original post was about finding a spouse in order to avoid living in sexual immorality, so what does sexual hedonism have to do with the topic?

Not a strawman at all. In a culture that places a hugely disproportionate focus on sex and sexuality we shouldn't be surprised that there's such a focus on having our own sexual desires fulfilled. And at a stroke sex becomes an act of taking rather than an act of giving, at which point once again it's all about me, me, me.

Not having your sexual and emotional desires met does have a damaging effect on people's health. It's been scientifically proven time and

We can look at all sorts of studies based on people who want something and can't have it. Did the study look at people who would like something and have accepted that they aren't going to have it? Is the problem being single or being discontented?

Going back to the loose comparison with material wealth, how many people who have riches most of us would consider vast still feel that they need more? Not a sense that they work because they like what they do or believe in their mission, I'm talking people who work to earn more money because they are afraid that their $100m fortune won't be enough. If you ask the average working person how much money he needs to be rich he'll probably give you an answer of a few million. If you ask someone with a net worth of $10m the same question he'll probably say $100m. And so the constant striving to get something that may be out of reach creates problems.

I remember one guy I loosely knew some years ago. He was the head of a trading department for a major investment bank (Managing Director level). I wouldn't even like to think what he made in salary and bonuses. He kept working even though he was being treated for hypertension. I don't believe for a moment he needed the extra money, I truly believe that he could have retired and lived very nicely on what he had accumulated. Now it's academic because he died of a heart attack.

time again. Science is just catching up with the Bible by proving what God said from the beginning: it is not good for man to be single.

If your original premise was correct and it was so important for us all to be married you'd almost wonder why God didn't give a few pointers for people who struggle to find a partner in modern society. But then when society gets shallow to the point that the first focus is on physical attraction, and the less attractive and the disabled are constantly overlooked, maybe the problem is there rather than God not giving specific guidelines for how to perform certain tasks under every possible societal condition.

You're right. Marriage is more than just what you do in the bedroom. That's why my thread addresses the issue of finding a spouse, not the issue of finding a sex partner. As for what a married woman should do in the case you presented, my guess is that masturbation within marriage, as long as the object of your desire is your spouse, not pornography, is not a sin.

If an argument is based on little more than a guess whether something is a sin it doesn't sound like much of an argument. What if an unmarried person were to masturbate while thinking of nothing more erotic than their weekly grocery shopping?

Any, really... Masturbation does not require the same amount of effort as sexual intercourse.

That would depend on just how you're going about it. There are ways to reduce the physical effort, either for fun or to reduce the physical impact for those that find it necessary.

 

[NewCreation435]

the Bible doesn't address it because in many cultures marriages were arranged by parents therefore this problem didn't exist then

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

Sexuality is a good thing, when used in accordance with God's will. What if it's not God's will for someone to marry at all?

If God gave a person a high libido / sex drive, but refused said person the gift of marriage, then according to 1 Corinthians 7:9, that would mean that God would have predestined said person to burn with desire because nowhere in the Bible can a Christian find any third alternative. 1 Corinthians 10:13 says that God doesn't let anyone be tempted beyond what they can bear.

The fact we have a desire doesn't create any entitlement to have that desire fulfilled.

It actually does, as long as the desire is not of a sinful nature and as long as you are a righteous person. Philippians 4:19 suggests that it is God's Will for all the needs of His children to be met. Psalm 84:11 says that "no good thing does He (God) withhold from those who walk uprightly. Marriage is a good thing according to Proverbs 18:22.

Not a strawman at all.

It is a straw man. You brought up a different topic, namely the desire for sexual immorality outside of marriage, while the thread was about why the Bible doesn't offer more detailed instructions on how to find a spouse. While sex is part of marriage, it is not the only component. Showing love for one another, praying together, spending time together, having someone to share your emotions and spend your time with in ways that offer you tenderness, cuddling, hugging, lifting each other emotionally and spiritually etc. All of these are aspects of marriage that the single people who desire to find a spouse are robbed of.

In a culture that places a hugely disproportionate focus on sex and sexuality we shouldn't be surprised that there's such a focus on having our own sexual desires fulfilled. And at a stroke sex becomes an act of taking rather than an act of giving, at which point once again it's all about me, me, me.

Well, seeing how Paul addressed this issues almost two millennia ago in the Middle Easte, it doesn't seem to be a cultural thing. It seems to be a pretty universal characteristic of humans.

We can look at all sorts of studies based on people who want something and can't have it. Did the study look at people who would like something and have accepted that they aren't going to have it? Is the problem being single or being discontented?

The problem is from both being single and discontented. The benefits of being in a relationship have been carefully analyzed and compared to the contentment offered by financial gain. While financial gain makes people happier until it reaches a certain satiation point, being in a relationship does not. It is constant until (unless) the romantic love between the two partners disappears.

Going back to the loose comparison with material wealth, how many people who have riches most of us would consider vast still feel that they need more? Not a sense that they work because they like what they do or believe in their mission, I'm talking people who work to earn more money because they are afraid that their $100m fortune won't be enough. If you ask the average working person how much money he needs to be rich he'll probably give you an answer of a few million. If you ask someone with a net worth of $10m the same question he'll probably say $100m. And so the constant striving to get something that may be out of reach creates problems.

Your assumptions have actually been anticipated by science and proven wrong: http://money.com/money/5157625/ideal-income-study/

I remember one guy I loosely knew some years ago. He was the head of a trading department for a major investment bank (Managing Director level). I wouldn't even like to think what he made in salary and bonuses. He kept working even though he was being treated for hypertension. I don't believe for a moment he needed the extra money, I truly believe that he could have retired and lived very nicely on what he had accumulated. Now it's academic because he died of a heart attack.

Workaholism and unhealthy obsessions with accumulating money are quite real, but again, that is irrelevant to the topic currently being discussed.

If your original premise was correct and it was so important for us all to be married you'd almost wonder why God didn't give a few pointers for people who struggle to find a partner in modern society. But then when society gets shallow to the point that the first focus is on physical attraction, and the less attractive and the disabled are constantly overlooked, maybe the problem is there rather than God not giving specific guidelines for how to perform certain tasks under every possible societal condition.

Society was quite shallow in Paul's time too, yet that didn't stop God from inspiring Paul to write letters to them to give them some basic instructions.

If an argument is based on little more than a guess whether something is a sin it doesn't sound like much of an argument. What if an unmarried person were to masturbate while thinking of nothing more erotic than their weekly grocery shopping?

That would be sex outside of marriage, so fornication.