Why do some Protestants put on rock concerts?

tango

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Sorry, but true. If you want to experience it then open youself up to it and seek it, if you are honest with it you will find it.

Sorry, still not working. I have experienced Jesus Culture's music, it troubled me sufficiently that I walked out of church during the service.

You're still presenting an argument to support one stance that could be used, word-for-word, to support the exact opposite stance. How can such an argument have any merit at all?
 

Full O Beans

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If being anointed or not is a matter of opinion then it would appear that a musician can be anointed and not anointed at the same time. How do you believe that works?

It's very easy to throw around spiritual-sounding terms like "anointed" in a way that strips them of any meaning at all. Perhaps you could explain your second line in layman's terms, without using the word "anointed" at all. I'm particularly keen to know how you would describe "experiencing the presence of God" and how you would differentiate experiencing God's presence from experiencing a sense of euphoria as would be expected after any time of listening to a lot of music you enjoy.

The Lord anoints musicians, but people are not always discerning or in a receptive place to receive it. Experiencing the presence of God isn't some mystical experience. It is literally knowing He is present, and He promises to be present when we worship and praise Him with all we've got.
 

tango

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The Lord anoints musicians, but people are not always discerning or in a receptive place to receive it. Experiencing the presence of God isn't some mystical experience. It is literally knowing He is present, and He promises to be present when we worship and praise Him with all we've got.

So when one person says God is present during something and another says God is absent, who is right? When the same music that causes you to consider the musicians to be "anointed" causes me a spirit so badly troubled I walk out, is God present or not, and how do you determine the answer to the question?
 

psalms 91

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Sorry, still not working. I have experienced Jesus Culture's music, it troubled me sufficiently that I walked out of church during the service.

You're still presenting an argument to support one stance that could be used, word-for-word, to support the exact opposite stance. How can such an argument have any merit at all?
If you want it then you will find it it isnt hard, a lot of preachers are annointed and a lot of music is as well. Have you ever sung a hymn and got thta feeling that God is present, I have and I know you accept that kind of music, I have gotten it with many things in church but I have also recognized when it was a manmade sermmon and not spirit led as well. All I can do is tell you, you accept it or you dont
 

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So when one person says God is present during something and another says God is absent, who is right? When the same music that causes you to consider the musicians to be "anointed" causes me a spirit so badly troubled I walk out, is God present or not, and how do you determine the answer to the question?
Better ask yourself if that is God taking you out or if it is yourself because you wont accept the style of music
 

Full O Beans

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So when one person says God is present during something and another says God is absent, who is right? When the same music that causes you to consider the musicians to be "anointed" causes me a spirit so badly troubled I walk out, is God present or not, and how do you determine the answer to the question?
If you are vexed to the point of fleeing from a place where Jesus alone is extolled, then you would need to check yourself.
 

tango

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If you want it then you will find it it isnt hard, a lot of preachers are annointed and a lot of music is as well. Have you ever sung a hymn and got thta feeling that God is present, I have and I know you accept that kind of music, I have gotten it with many things in church but I have also recognized when it was a manmade sermmon and not spirit led as well. All I can do is tell you, you accept it or you dont

You're still not saying anything that couldn't be used to support both sides of the same argument.

Sometimes I have sung a hymn (or song, or chorus, or whatever else) and got a feeling that I've associated with God's presence. But a lot of the time that feeling is so very transient it's hard to know whether it does relate to God's presence or merely enjoying the music. One observation I've often made in churches is that once you've been there a fairly short while you can usually predict to within a second or so when all the hands will go up. That suggests to me that it's a response to the music rather than anything spiritual.

The question still remains, when one person has a feeling that they say is God's presence, and another person has a feeling that troubles them so badly they walk out, is God present or not and how do you answer? Your answers use lots of words but ultimately I'm not seeing a message beyond "it feels right", and feelings generally aren't a good basis for anything of any importance. "It feels right" is countered equally by "it feels wrong", which is why I'm asking whether you have any objective means to determine whose feelings are correct.
 

tango

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Better ask yourself if that is God taking you out or if it is yourself because you wont accept the style of music

I have no problem with a particular musical style, I don't have an issue with hymns sung with no musical accompaniment at all, or contemporary songs sung to the backing of a contemporary band. So it's not that.

If you are vexed to the point of fleeing from a place where Jesus alone is extolled, then you would need to check yourself.

So if you can't answer my questions you assume I'm not spiritual? I wonder why I can be quite peaceful in a huge range of church settings where Jesus is worshiped but when listening to Jesus Culture it triggers the same sensations I get when I'm around occult material.
 

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I assume no such thing. If you get such a dire reaction, it is not the Holy Spirit recoiling. It's something else.
 

tango

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I assume no such thing. If you get such a dire reaction, it is not the Holy Spirit recoiling. It's something else.

You are assuming - you're assuming your viewpoint is correct and it couldn't possibly be anything wrong with Jesus Culture.

Why do you suppose I get the same sensation when surrounded by occult and New Age material as I do when listening to Jesus Culture, and don't get anything like that sensation when singing praises to God? If you want to say it's not the Holy Spirit but something else, what do you believe the "something else" might be, why is it greatly bothered when I am surrounded by occult material, and why is it not bothered when I am singing God's praises?
 

Full O Beans

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You are assuming - you're assuming your viewpoint is correct and it couldn't possibly be anything wrong with Jesus Culture.

Why do you suppose I get the same sensation when surrounded by occult and New Age material as I do when listening to Jesus Culture, and don't get anything like that sensation when singing praises to God? If you want to say it's not the Holy Spirit but something else, what do you believe the "something else" might be, why is it greatly bothered when I am surrounded by occult material, and why is it not bothered when I am singing God's praises?

I don't assume, but I would suggest that you take up your concerns and/or fears with the Lord.
 

tango

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I don't assume, but I would suggest that you take up your concerns and/or fears with the Lord.

I have done, many times. My life over the last couple of years would have been vastly easier if I could accept statements like "Bethel church is anointed" but having looked into why things about them bothered me I like them less and less. Since you've probably noticed I preach a message of "test all things" I can't and won't hold anything above being tested, my own beliefs included. So yes, I have prayerfully considered all sorts of possibilities and concluded, among other things, that I wouldn't touch anything coming out of Bethel church without studying it very carefully for toxic teaching lurking among the words.

It does nothing to help the process when those most closely associated with churches like Bethel are most likely regard "it's anointed" as a valid argument and then hide behind vague statements like "it's spiritual and you either get it or you don't" that could support either side of the argument just as well. My experience is that churches that get involved with Bethel and their teaching go off the rails Scripturally speaking, abuse Scripture and refuse to use Scripture to support their claims. (That's not a dig at you personally, just an observation of a number of people from more than one church that went that way).
 

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ok ,so some have a favorite band and get a bit touchy when others don't consider it all that special .

im so over the so called chrsitian music industry ..and that is all it is - an industry , there i threw my spanner in .

BUT .. the question asked here is " Why do some Protestants put on rock concerts?" and i feel it is a valid question even if i suspect it is asked with "other "agenda .

i answered based only upon my opinion that they do so in error ,i an attempt to draw the world by means of worldliness..into the congregations.

and it isn't working..if you want large crowds you need to make large claims of blessing and wealth and appeal to folks sense of need and greed -then you wil get large crowds to perish along with you .
OR you can teach them that if they join and you wear a fancy robe and bless them .they will be saved from hell (even though they have no love for God nor shred of repentance) and get them also to perish with you .

Doing THINGS in the flesh is the trap we fall into when we have begun to lose faith in The promises of God .. because the promises of God are taken hold of by faith ..in prayer and fasting in patience and endurance .. but these things are difficult on the flesh , so we take the easier road becaseu we think we can do Gods Job for him.. so we remodel congregational meetings on worldly templates to "bring the world into the congragations" but there that thing .. the world is not supposed to be in our congragations ..they are the world . the church .. being every one of us is commanded to GO out with the Gospel , not stay IN with it and expect the world to come .

we Need the manifestation of the power of God out in the world .then the lost will be saved and come and join in congregation with us .and when we need something according to God wil he tells us that we should .. "hold meetings styled like the word"?.. NO !! he says" i know what you have need of before you ask ".. SO ASK . but so many no longer ask ,because they no longer believe God means what he says .
and the result .. congregational meetings that look so like worldly motivational gathering you can barely tell them apart (except that they are sometimes even crazier the world version )

polished smooth singing that makes us feel "nice" .. does not always equate to "annointed " ..
in the azuza st revivals .. young ladies would sing under the anointing and grown MEN would begin to weep and repent of thier SINS and be converted...
 

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I am not responding for a band or anything else. What I see is there is nothing wrong with Christian artists getting paid well fortheir talent as the world does. If the people in the churchs would have kept them from starving and paid them according to their worth perhaps they wouldnt feel the need to commercialize their talent
 

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hmmm im reminded (because its is on my heart so much lately ) of the lord promise to look after us more then the birds and the flowers .in contrast with the western mindset .

we need to constantly have our soulish minds renewed ,to have "the mind of Christ..is actually not some great mystery .. he spoke his mind in the 4 gospels ... rather openly and very plainly .
 

psalms 91

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hmmm im reminded (because its is on my heart so much lately ) of the lord promise to look after us more then the birds and the flowers .in contrast with the western mindset .

we need to constantly have our soulish minds renewed ,to have "the mind of Christ..is actually not some great mystery .. he spoke his mind in the 4 gospels ... rather openly and very plainly .
Yes providing people are open to the Holy Spirit, you know as well as I do that a lot of Christians gaurd their pocketbook pretty well and yes artists that performed in churchs some of them did not get paid as they should so yes I agree with selling their music and advertising it, I have no problem with that. The only problem I have is if that is the only reason they are doing it
 

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hmmm im reminded (because its is on my heart so much lately ) of the lord promise to look after us more then the birds and the flowers .in contrast with the western mindset .

we need to constantly have our soulish minds renewed ,to have "the mind of Christ..is actually not some great mystery .. he spoke his mind in the 4 gospels ... rather openly and very plainly .


I laugh at statements like this. Really. As a child, I grew up during a great Pentacostal revival in our area. People were leaving the Baptist churches because they were "worldly". Folks received the baptism in the Holy Ghost, but, they got lost in the shout it seemed to me. They were wonderful people though. But it tickled me when I saw most of them in later years migrate back to the Baptist (worldly) churches. I agree though that our minds need to be renewed by the Word of God which is the MIND of Christ. But you will not find anything about styles of music in any one of the Gospels, nor in the Epistles.
 

tango

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im so over the so called chrsitian music industry ..and that is all it is - an industry , there i threw my spanner in .

I think you make a good point here. A few times in church I've heard people talk excitedly about "the great new (songwriter) song" and asking if people have heard it. It's really no different to getting excited about the latest (secular band) song and wondering what people think of it. I wouldn't blame the songwriters themselves because I have no way of knowing whether they are putting stuff out in the hope of maintaining a high profile for themselves or their heart is truly about worshiping God, but the situation seems unhealthy to me.

BUT .. the question asked here is " Why do some Protestants put on rock concerts?" and i feel it is a valid question even if i suspect it is asked with "other "agenda .

i answered based only upon my opinion that they do so in error ,i an attempt to draw the world by means of worldliness..into the congregations.

and it isn't working..if you want large crowds you need to make large claims of blessing and wealth and appeal to folks sense of need and greed -then you wil get large crowds to perish along with you .
OR you can teach them that if they join and you wear a fancy robe and bless them .they will be saved from hell (even though they have no love for God nor shred of repentance) and get them also to perish with you .

From my experiences in my younger days it does seem very easy to get a lot of people in one place, play (or get people to sing) very upbeat and very repetitive music for an extended period, then either passively let them think (or actively encourage them to think) that the euphoria induced by the upbeat repetitive music is "a great move of God" and sell them a bill of goods. Then they go away thinking they've made a huge change and they are fired up to change the world, only to realise that the euphoria faded away after a couple of days and the world around them still wears them down. Then over time they conclude that there's no point trying because every time you get a new experience (or new anointing, or whatever fancy term the preacher comes up with) it lasts a couple of days and then fades away. Sometimes you don't even get out of the parking area before it faded away.

Doing THINGS in the flesh is the trap we fall into when we have begun to lose faith in The promises of God .. because the promises of God are taken hold of by faith ..in prayer and fasting in patience and endurance .. but these things are difficult on the flesh , so we take the easier road becaseu we think we can do Gods Job for him.. so we remodel congregational meetings on worldly templates to "bring the world into the congragations" but there that thing .. the world is not supposed to be in our congragations ..they are the world . the church .. being every one of us is commanded to GO out with the Gospel , not stay IN with it and expect the world to come .

As with so many other things there's a balance to be struck. I don't have a problem with particular musical styles - there would have been a time when the contents of "Hymns Ancient and Modern" were considered pretty radical - the problem is when we dilute the message. And that's something more associated with contemporary songs that might be described as theologically thin or compositionally lazy. Compare and contrast:

"Praise my soul the King of Heaven, to his feet thy tribute bring, ransomed healed restored forgiven, who like me his praise should sing?"

"You laid aside your majesty, gave up everything for me, suffered at the hands of those you had created / You took all my guilt and shame, when you died and rose again, now today you reign, in heaven and earth exalted"

"And if he goes to the left then we go to the left and if he goes to the right then we go to the right, we're going to jump jump jump jump in the river, jump jump jump jump everybody"

Spot the lyrics that have no theological depth at all in them...

we Need the manifestation of the power of God out in the world .then the lost will be saved and come and join in congregation with us .and when we need something according to God wil he tells us that we should .. "hold meetings styled like the word"?.. NO !! he says" i know what you have need of before you ask ".. SO ASK . but so many no longer ask ,because they no longer believe God means what he says .
and the result .. congregational meetings that look so like worldly motivational gathering you can barely tell them apart (except that they are sometimes even crazier the world version )

I remember years ago attending an outreach program (as a helper), hoping for lots of people to come through the doors to figure out what the church was all about. In the end we had a few people who were fairly familiar with the Christian faith who wanted to know more about the church and one young lady who attended wanting to know about Christianity. At first I was hugely disappointed - we'd done all the preparation and said all the prayers and we had one person arrive. But God put me straight on that one - it didn't take long for him to let me know that if one person came to Christ as a result then the course was worthwhile. And, as it happened, the young lady in question did come to Christ (and also became a good friend).

My error there was expecting divine fireworks, lines of people wanting to know more and the rest of it. What God wanted may have looked modest from the world's perspective but fits perfectly with the parables of the shepherd who left his 99 sheep to find the one lost one.

polished smooth singing that makes us feel "nice" .. does not always equate to "annointed " ..

Very true. Having been there myself several times I was always a little concerned when the young people in my church used to come back from some concert or another and gush about how awesome it was to be among 20,000 people all praising God. I did wonder how many were praising God and how many were having a good sing-song that happened to mention some God guy in the lyrics.
 
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