Why did Christ found a church?

[Faithhopeandcharity]

For what purpose?

 

[Josiah]

Yes He did. But not a denomination such as The Catholic Church.


The word "church" is used in two very different ways in Scripture:


CHURCH. (Invisible)

"The one, holy, catholic community of saints" as most Christians proclaim each Sunday. This is PEOPLE, the PEOPLE of God. ALL those to whom God has given the divine gifts of faith, spiritual life, justification (narrow) and the Holy Spirit. It is the entire corpus of such (both on earth and now in heaven). It is "invisible" in the sense that it is not a human/geopolical/legal/economic entity but is "visible" in the sense that faith among the faithful is observable. It is ONE (because we are one body, one family, brothers and sisters in Christ), united in our faith in CHRIST as THE (one, only, exclusive) Savior. It is HOLY because all in it are forgiven via that faith in that Savior. It is CATHOLIC because it embraces ALL believers everywhere and in every time, it is a communion because we are united into one spiritual entity.

Ephesians 2:19-22
Ephesians 4:4
1 Peter 2:9
Romans 12:4
Ephesians 1:1
Luke 17:21

Yes, Jesus founded this;... and Jesus is the Head and Lord of this (He never resigned).


CONGREGATION/PARISH (Visible)

Examples: Good Shepherd Catholic Church of Beverly Hills, CA. Concordia Lutheran Church of Jamestown, ND

A congregation is a gathering of Christian people in a given place and time. They gather together by their Lord's direction to worship, study, serve/minister, grow, support, love and hold each other accountable. They MAY put institutional aspects into place (name, constitution/by laws, articles of corporation, budgets, officers, property, etc.) so that that association has institutional aspects or simply may be Christians who gather in some living room. While the word "church" is often used for this too, it is NOT to be confused with THE Church - the one, holy, catholic, communion of saints: these associations are at most a tiny and current subset of THE Church. There are tens of millions of congregations in the world, very few last more than a century so they tend to have a beginning and an end. It is NOT divinely mandated that all Christians associate into some congregation/parish, but many do and many believe this is a good thing but there are hundreds of millions of "non-congregational" Christians.

Galatians 1:2
1 Thessalonians 1:1
Revelation 1:4
1 Corinthians 1:2

Jesus did not found any of these.



These are the ONLY TWO meanings found in Scripture.

But there are two other uses/meanings in modern English -



DENOMINATION

Example: The Catholic Church, The Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Church, The Orthodox Presbyterian Church in America


At times, a group of congregations MAY choose to associate together - forming an institution of them, an association of congregations.
This USUALLY is a formal institution - but it can at times simply refer to a common creed among congregations (as in "the Lutheran denomination" - there actually are over 300 Lutheran denomination institutions, but theoretically, most share a common creed, the Lutheran Confessions). These congregations associate together into denominations for similar reasons that Christians associate into congregations: for the purposes of mutual edification, ministry, support and accountability. Some of these are extremely "loose" (the "United Church of Christ" in the USA would be an example), the most radical forms are very strong they even may actually legally own and operate the member congregations (the Catholic Church or the Episcopal Church USA are examples of very radical, extreme denominations). There are thousands of denominations in the world currently, the largest (by far) being the Catholic Church although it is highly diversified into dioceses.

Congregations can be denominational (as most are) or non-denominational. Denominational ones are associated with other congregations - with a common formal statement of faith and often with some governance above and outside itself, whereas non-denominational ones are independent and autonomous. There is no divine mandate that a congregation be denominational (and millions aren't) but most are and most believe this is a benefit.

There are no Scriptures that mention denominations. Many hold that none clearly existed until the Roman Empire formed "The Roman Church" in the early 4th Century, created by itself for itself in the image of itself.

Some definitions:

From religioustolerance.com
Denomination: an established religious group, typically uniting a group of individual, local congregations into a single administrative body.


From thefreedictionary.com
Denomination: "A group of religious congregations united under a common faith and name and organized under a single administrative and legal hierarchy."


From onlinedictionary.com
Denomination: "a group of religious congregations having its own organization and often a distinctive faith."


From Allwords.com
Denomination: "a group of religious congregations having its own organization and a distinctive faith."


American Heritage Dictionary:
Denomination: "A large group of religious congregations united under a common faith and name and organized under a single administrative and legal hierarchy."


Is The Catholic Church a denomination? It is unless one insists that it has no Catechism or beliefs, that it has no bishops or archbishops or cardinals or pope, that each priest is entirely autonomous, that each parish is absolutely independent and has nothing to do with ANY other parish.


BUILDING:

In modern English, the word may refer to a physical facility that is typically used for religious purposes (especially for Christian worship and ministry).


These last two meanings are not found in the Bible.


- Josiah




.

 

[Josiah]

See post #2 above.....



But to add...

Now, it's true that SPIRITUALLY, all Christians (even those now in heaven) have "roots" in "the early church" (another sloppy term). With the exception of Mormons, JW's and a few others, perhaps 99% of rhe world's Christians are part of a heritage that goes back to the Third, Second, First centuries - yes, to the Apostles and to Jesus Himself. The vast majority in some way at least accept the Seven Ecumenical Councils and the Three Ecumenical Creeds (Anglicans, Orthodox, Lutherans, Methodist, Catholic and well beyond). In a sense, 99% of Christians "go back" to the Early Church... all our associations come from that root, which clearly was planted by Jesus and the Apostles.

But NONE of them is exactly the same as that. Remember: it was a very diverse group! Some in the years 33-313 denied the Trinity, some denied the two natures of Christ, some were strict pacifists, some were communist (believing all Christians must hold all things in common), it was a VERY diverse group in HOT debate with each other! Remember, the Roman Emperor called those Ecumenical Councils to resolve huge debates among Christians - debates that raged in the early church. There is no denomination TODAY that is just like the Christians who lived 33-313 AD. MANY of our teachings and practices have roots there -maybe even were common then - but none is EXACTLY like then. We all come FROM there but we are not then.

This video is 10 minutes long but raises this point:

So yes, 99% of Christians go back to Jesus.... but NO Christian person or church or denomination is a copy of the Early Church (all Christians who lived from 33-313 AD). Jesus didn't "found" any of us today.... in a sense, He started the movement that has become what is.

Add this to the institutional point made in post #2.



A blessed Advent season to all....


- Josiah




.

 

[Fritz Kobus]

My question is, where in the Bible does it say you should become a member of a particular congregation. Is it not enough to attend?

 

[Albion]

My question is, where in the Bible does it say you should become a member of a particular congregation. Is it not enough to attend?

You might make that case, I suppose. Is that what you've been doing?

 

[Spindle4]

For what purpose?

THE PROMOTION OF

SPIRITUAL LIFE AND GROWTH

AMONGST WHOSOEVER WILL BELIEVE

IN JESUS CHRIST​

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

Christ founded the church to teach His truth or revelation to the whole world!

to teach and rule the nations! Matt 28:19-20

therefore we must be taught of Christ and His church! Lk 1:4

 

[Spindle4]

Christ founded the church to teach His truth or revelation to the whole world!

to teach and rule the nations! Matt 28:19-20

therefore we must be taught of Christ and His church! Lk 1:4

We are His body . . .

Eph 4:10-16 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.) (11) And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, (12) for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, (13) till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; (14) that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, (15) but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— (16) from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

Yes
What is the basis of Christian unity?

 

[Josiah]

Yes
What is the basis of Christian unity?

In the church/community of faith/communion of believers/family of God - it's faith. One Lord, one faith, one baptism. Faith in Christ UNITES us as Christians and thus as the Church.

Unity of doctrine would mean all have exactly the same teachings. That's never been the case but it would be a good thing. The Catholic Church has unity with NONE in this sense, no other agrees with it on teachings (not even do Catholics necessarily agree with it on all teachings). The Catholic Church in this sense as EXACTLY the same unity as the LDS has - none, just with it itself alone (and even that, ONLY officially, formally, institutionally, currently and in those matters that it itself alone currently holds that it should agree with itself concerning.

Unity of brotherhood means there is love. It is the mark of Christians. "Love ... especially those of the household of God." This too has never existed to any great extent - although it should.





.

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

In the church/community of faith/communion of believers/family of God - it's faith. One Lord, one faith, one baptism. Faith in Christ UNITES us as Christians and thus as the Church.

Unity of doctrine would mean all have exactly the same teachings. That's never been the case but it would be a good thing. The Catholic Church has unity with NONE in this sense, no other agrees with it on teachings (not even do Catholics necessarily agree with it on all teachings). The Catholic Church in this sense as EXACTLY the same unity as the LDS has - none, just with it itself alone (and even that, ONLY officially, formally, institutionally, currently and in those matters that it itself alone currently holds that it should agree with itself concerning.

Unity of brotherhood means there is love. It is the mark of Christians. "Love ... especially those of the household of God." This too has never existed to any great extent - although it should.





.

Thou art wise! It is faith! And all must have the faith revealed by Christ! Jude 1:3

how is this faith to transmitted to all nations without error? What is the rule of faith!

 

[Spindle4]

Yes
What is the basis of Christian unity?

the unity of

• the faith and of
• the knowledge of the Son of God,

“In essentials, unity. In doubtful questions, liberty. In all things, charity.”

Eph 4:1-3 I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called, (2) with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love, (3) endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

how is this faith to transmitted to all nations without error? What is the rule of faith!

The Bible doesn't specify a rule of faith as such.

Quote: For evangelical Christians, the Word of God and its Author are the true rule of faith. This is not to say that preachers and teachers are unnecessary. But the doctrine of the sufficiency of Scripture is a cornerstone of the evangelical rule of faith. [ What Is The Rule Of Faith?]