Who was Melchizedek?

[NewCreation435]

Abraham offered a tithe to Melchizedek and it says that he was a priest. This was before the Levitical priest had begun or the Bible written. They didn't even know God's name at the time. Here are some scripture references for Melchizedek. Who was he and how did he get his authority to be a priest?

Genesis 14:18 Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine. He was priest of God Most High, 19 and he blessed Abram, saying,
“Blessed be Abram by God Most High,
Creator of heaven and earth.

Psalm 110:4 The Lord has sworn
and will not change his mind:
“You are a priest forever,
in the order of Melchizedek.”

Hebrews 5:9-10 "and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him 10 and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek."

Hebrews 6:19-20 9 We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain, 20 where our forerunner, Jesus, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.

Hebrews 7:10-12 10 "because when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the body of his ancestor.
11 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood—and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood—why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? 12 For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also."

 

[Josiah]

I think you excellently answered your question, my friend.

 

[NewCreation435]

I think you excellently answered your question, my friend.

Questions remain.
Did he get his instructions about how to worship from God himself? Such as sacrifices?
How did he know the nature of God?
Is this a preincarnate Christ as some have said?
How did Abram know him and who he was?

 

[Josiah]

Questions remain.
Did he get his instructions about how to worship from God himself? Such as sacrifices?
How did he know the nature of God?
Is this a preincarnate Christ as some have said?
How did Abram know him and who he was?

IMO, the verses you quoted answer who he was. And of course, it's all we are told. I SUSPECT, but cannot know... I can THEORIZE but cannot state.... that this man was educated - whether by God directly or indirectly, we cannot know. And that there was probably some conversation between Abraham and this man.

IMO, this reveals that that God has something of a relationship with MORE and JUST His "chosen people." Interesting.... because SOME like to spin that Judaism started as simply a tribal religion, but I think this suggests that both Hebrews and non-Hebrews understood that God is the God of ALL and that ALL can have a relationship with Him. Certainly, there is something special with the Hebrews (His 'chosen ones') but it's not entirely exclusive.

Yeah.... the significance of this to Jesus is interesting. "After the order of Melchizedek." Interesting because this man is pretty obscure in the OT and yet.... Some suggest this has some connection to Jesus being the Great High Priest but was He of the right "tribe" (not a descendant of Aaron) within the Hebrew Old Covenant for such? Perhaps this whole account is to show that the HEBREW OLD COVENANT was not the only factor? Ah, just a personal theory.


That's my worthless opinion...


- Josiah




.

 

[psalms 91]

IMO, the verses you quoted answer who he was. And of course, it's all we are told. I SUSPECT, but cannot know... I can THEORIZE but cannot state.... that this man was educated - whether by God directly or indirectly, we cannot know. And that there was probably some conversation between Abraham and this man.

IMO, this reveals that that God has something of a relationship with MORE and JUST His "chosen people." Interesting.... because SOME like to spin that Judaism started as simply a tribal religion, but I think this suggests that both Hebrews and non-Hebrews understood that God is the God of ALL and that ALL can have a relationship with Him. Certainly, there is something special with the Hebrews (His 'chosen ones') but it's not entirely exclusive.

Yeah.... the significance of this to Jesus is interesting. "After the order of Melchizedek." Interesting because this man is pretty obscure in the OT and yet.... Some suggest this has some connection to Jesus being the Great High Priest but was He of the right "tribe" (not a descendant of Aaron) within the Hebrew Old Covenant for such? Perhaps this whole account is to show that the HEBREW OLD COVENANT was not the only factor? Ah, just a personal theory.


That's my worthless opinion...


- Josiah




.

Someone without beginning or end as far as the Word, Many think it was Jesus but I would say that the verse that says like Melchezadek discounts that. But I do believe he came from heaven and we do not know for sure if it was a man or Jesus or an angel. As you say we can speculate but not know because the Word does not tell us

 

[NewCreation435]

Someone without beginning or end as far as the Word, Many think it was Jesus but I would say that the verse that says like Melchezadek discounts that. But I do believe he came from heaven and we do not know for sure if it was a man or Jesus or an angel. As you say we can speculate but not know because the Word does not tell us

if he had no beginning or end then we can rule out man since it is appointed for all men to die once. Hebrews 9:27

 

[psalms 91]

if he had no beginning or end then we can rule out man since it is appointed for all men to die once. Hebrews 9:27

Again only speculation that one came about because there is nothing saying that he did but if I remember correctly it does talk about an eternal priesthood

 

[NewCreation435]

Again only speculation that one came about because there is nothing saying that he did but if I remember correctly it does talk about an eternal priesthood

The book of Hebrews makes the comparison because unlike the priest in the Old Testament who had his own failures and sins, Jesus is our High Priest now and has an eternal priesthood

 

[Andrew]

Freemasons seem to know much about him but they wont tell me because its a secret

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[Andrew]

Freemasons seem to know much about him but they wont tell me because its a secret

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I do have a masonic bible tho lol i just remembered that... anyway

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[RichWh1]

Questions remain.
Did he get his instructions about how to worship from God himself? Such as sacrifices?
How did he know the nature of God?
Is this a preincarnate Christ as some have said?
How did Abram know him and who he was?

I have heard the assumption that Melchizedek was a pre incarnate appearance of Jesus Christ.
The name Melchizedek means King of righteousness and Salem being Peace Jesus is Prince of Peace.
So there are some parallels however whether it was an incarnation of Jesus Christ we don’t truly know.



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[Pedrito]

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A few thoughts. (Not enough space to offer more at this stage.)

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“This was before the Levitical priest had begun or the Bible written.”

The Levitical priesthood was an integral part of God’s special, formal relationship with the nation Israel.

However, prior to that, God had established individuals as priests and prophets.

Melchizedek and Jethro were among them. (Note that in Exodus 2:16, Exodus 3:1, Exodus 18:1, Jethro is identified as “the priest of Midian. There were priests in other areas as well. Jethro was one of a number of priests. His later interaction with Moses seems to indicate that he was a priest appointed by God.)

Balaam is an example of a prophet external to Israel, to whom God gave autonomous power and with whom God spoke directly.

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“They didn't even know God's name at the time.”

Job is acknowledged to be the oldest written narrative in the Bible. It predates the giving of the Law to Israel. Yet that book contains many references to Yahweh. At that stage, Yahweh was being used as a title, acknowledging His revelation of Himself to Mankind. – the “self-existing one”. It was at a special meeting that God revealed to Moses that His former, most meaningful title was now to be used as His name.

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“Did he get his instructions about how to worship from God himself? Such as sacrifices?”
“How did he know the nature of God?”

God had revealed all that to Adam and his sons.

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“How did Abram know him and who he was?”

One can reasonably assume that someone in the official retinue of the King of Salem (Salem was later named Jerusalem) formally introduced them. Important leader to important leader.

Otherwise, he introduced himself.


(More thoughts could be offered – I’ll try to find time.)

 

[Pedrito]

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Post #3, jsimms435:
Is this a preincarnate Christ as some have said?

It would seem not. Jesus’ priesthood is said to resemble that of Melchizedek. (Psalms 91 in Post #5 points that out.) Jesus’ priesthood began after His substitutionary death, His resurrection and His ascension.

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Post #4, Josiah:
IMO, this reveals that that God has something of a relationship with MORE and JUST His "chosen people." Interesting.... because SOME like to spin that Judaism started as simply a tribal religion, but I think this suggests that both Hebrews and non-Hebrews understood that God is the God of ALL and that ALL can have a relationship with Him.

Before the nation of Israel was formed, and even during the wilderness journey, there were individually appointed prophets and priests.

The pagans knew about the Great God (and His hatred of adultery) even if they did not want to acknowledge Him. (Genesis 20:1-18, Genesis 26:6-11)

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Post #4, Josiah:
Yeah.... the significance of this to Jesus is interesting. "After the order of Melchizedek." Interesting because this man is pretty obscure in the OT and yet.... Some suggest this has some connection to Jesus being the Great High Priest but was He of the right "tribe" (not a descendant of Aaron) within the Hebrew Old Covenant for such?

Post #5, psalms 91
Someone without beginning or end as far as the Word, Many think it was Jesus but I would say that the verse that says like Melchezadek discounts that.

Post #6. psalms 91
if he had no beginning or end then we can rule out man since it is appointed for all men to die once. Hebrews 9:27

The whole point of the comparison was (is) to demonstrate the superiority of Jesus’ priesthood over the Levitical one.

1. Melchizedek’s priesthood was shown to be superior to the Levitical one. (Hebrews 7:4-10)

2. Melchizedek was individually and personally chosen and appointed to be a priest by God. His priesthood was not based upon genealogical descent. Just like our Saviour's. Nor was the temporal extent of his priesthood known (recorded), and thus notionally continued without end – unlike that of any Levitical priest. (Hebrews 7:3) Thus Melchizedek was a type (model, picture) of the future, individually God-appointed, Heaven-based, Great High Priest.

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Post #4, Josiah:
That's my worthless opinion...

I would suggest that no-one’s opinion is worthless. We should however be willing to modify our opinions in the light of fresh evidence.

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[Arsenios]

1. Melchizedek’s priesthood was shown to be superior to the Levitical one. (Hebrews 7:4-10)

2. Melchizedek was individually and personally chosen and appointed to be a priest by God. His priesthood was not based upon genealogical descent. Just like our Saviour's. Nor was the temporal extent of his priesthood known (recorded), and thus notionally continued without end – unlike that of any Levitical priest. (Hebrews 7:3) Thus Melchizedek was a type (model, picture) of the future, individually God-appointed, Heaven-based, Great High Priest.[/COLOR][/B]

I should think that more than chosen and appointed by God individually and personally, the Priesthood of Melchizedek is actually ordained by God directly without human intermediaries... The priesthood of the Ekklesia is the co-equivalent fulfillment of the Levitical Priesthood, whereas the Melchizedek Priesthood in that same Ekklesia is normally found in Her God-Bearing Saints, although some in the Priesthood actually are Saints as well...

One question I asked at first when I looked at this issue was: "What is the discipleship of this Priesthood?"

When we look at Christ, though growing up under the Law, He was not discipled in the Law, as was, say, David...

Christ was discipled through His obedience to His Father...

And Paul, discipled under the Law, shifted His discipling to the Risen Christ after being Baptized into Christ by Ananias, who restored to him his sight and filled him with the Holy Spirit...

So the Order of Mechizedek seems to be quintessentially NOT the Priesthood where the laying on of hands ordains the Priest, but is instead that of God Himself discipling and Ordaining priests into its ranks...

Yet there is a good argument for the Priesthood of the Ekklesia ordained by manumission as being Melchizedekian because these ordinations are now BY God Himself through the hands of His Servants...

And remember, the Priesthood is quintessentially the Power to IMPART God's Grace to those in need...
As Ananias did with Paul...

So Pedrito, why are you sniffing around this topic?


Arsenios

 

[Pedrito]

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Post #14, Arsenios: So Pedrito, why are you sniffing around this topic?

I suppose it could be jokingly stated: “What a dog of a thing to say.”


But could it be that I simply have a nose for getting to the heart of a matter?

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[Arsenios]

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Post #14, Arsenios: So Pedrito, why are you sniffing around this topic?

I suppose it could be jokingly stated: “What a dog of a thing to say.”


But could it be that I simply have a nose for getting to the heart of a matter?

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You have a decent nose, but my question was more personal...
And thank-you for finally, you dog!, getting around to a reply...
I was getting worried I might have said something wrong...

Point being I was wondering if you had a dog in this sniff...
Because I have such a dog...
I have Melchidezek's Icon...

The difference between the Melchidezekian Priesthood and that of all others is, in my understanding, its Ordination by God-direct without human intermediaries... The business about "no past" simply means that the past is hidden from view by God, yet not without a beginning... And I also think that it is what I will coin as a Kosmos-oriented discipleship, rather than one that is obedience oriented...

I further think that it is what the solitaries among the Monastics seek in the silence of their solitude, and hence their ministries from remote and isolated caves is unto the whole world by God's direction... And that the Love in which they abide is not imaginable to us lesser, behemothic, and knuckle-dragging wanna-be Spiritual brutes...

So that for us, simply by being members of the Body of Christ, we are not thereby members of this Priesthood in full, but only in part by proxy qua membership... Among monastics, the closest we come is the stavrophore monks who are highly ascetic, and I am fairly sure a goodly number of these attain God's Ordination and are then pretty much cloistered away so they can do their hidden work without distraction...

So why are you interested in this Order?

Arsenios

 

[Andrew]

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[Pedrito]

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Post #16, Arsenios: You have a decent nose, but my question was more personal...
And thank-you for finally, you dog!, getting around to a reply...
I was getting worried I might have said something wrong...

It’s fun to see Arsenios keeping the dog humour going. Time tends to be my enemy (or one of them). There are threads I would love to contribute to, but lack of time precludes that. Any lack of speedy response on my part can be attributed to time constraint, and nothing more. Readers might have noticed that I recently posted into an old thread that had slipped through the cracks at the time (because of time). And naturally I cannot call time out to allow me to catch up. If it is thought I might have missed replying to something I should have, after a week or so I am open to and encourage reminders. It is my established custom to not deliberately avoid issues.

Point being I was wondering if you had a dog in this sniff...

I am unfamiliar with the idiom. But having investigated a little, I deduce that it relates to the “have a dog in the fight” idiom that appears to be used in the USA and Britain.

Looking around, I don’t see a fight. So my watchcat (I don’t own a dog) is still curled up on my favourite lounge chair.

Because I have such a dog...
I have Melchidezek's Icon...

I always wondered what Melchizedek looked like. The artist who painted him back then was tops. It almost looks like a photograph.

Are we certain that Melchizedek’s headgear and raiment were black?

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So why are you interested in this Order?

Well, an order was given to Timothy: Give diligence to present yourself approved to God, a workman unashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth. (2 Timothy 2:15) It seemed in order to assume that the injunction applied in orderly fashion to "footstep followers" of the Master, in their order. Applying that diligence to the Order of Melchizedek, we see that the "Order" there means "the style" or "the manner" in Hebrew, and that therefore the most most closely related meaning in the later Greek ("rank") is the one that applies. Melchizedek was a type of the then-to-come Messiah. That, and no more. (But that was certainly sufficient.) At no time did there exist – not then, not now, and at no time in between – any justification for the introduction of any post-Apostolic, hierarchical organisation. Let alone a multiplicity of them.

Why was I interested in that “Order”? I think that is now clear. The subject came up. I checked it out. I now move on.

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[Arsenios]

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Post #16, Arsenios: You have a decent nose, but my question was more personal...
And thank-you for finally, you dog!, getting around to a reply...
I was getting worried I might have said something wrong...

It’s fun to see Arsenios keeping the dog humour going. Time tends to be my enemy (or one of them). There are threads I would love to contribute to, but lack of time precludes that. Any lack of speedy response on my part can be attributed to time constraint, and nothing more. Readers might have noticed that I recently posted into an old thread that had slipped through the cracks at the time (because of time). And naturally I cannot call time out to allow me to catch up. If it is thought I might have missed replying to something I should have, after a week or so I am open to and encourage reminders. It is my established custom to not deliberately avoid issues.

Point being I was wondering if you had a dog in this sniff...

I am unfamiliar with the idiom. But having investigated a little, I deduce that it relates to the “have a dog in the fight” idiom that appears to be used in the USA and Britain.

Looking around, I don’t see a fight. So my watchcat (I don’t own a dog) is still curled up on my favourite lounge chair.

Because I have such a dog...
I have Melchidezek's Icon...

I always wondered what Melchizedek looked like. The artist who painted him back then was tops. It almost looks like a photograph.

Are we certain that Melchizedek’s headgear and raiment were black?

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So why are you interested in this Order?

Well, an order was given to Timothy: Give diligence to present yourself approved to God, a workman unashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth. (2 Timothy 2:15) It seemed in order to assume that the injunction applied in orderly fashion to "footstep followers" of the Master, in their order. Applying that diligence to the Order of Melchizedek, we see that the "Order" there means "the style" or "the manner" in Hebrew, and that therefore the most most closely related meaning in the later Greek ("rank") is the one that applies. Melchizedek was a type of the then-to-come Messiah. That, and no more. (But that was certainly sufficient.) At no time did there exist – not then, not now, and at no time in between – any justification for the introduction of any post-Apostolic, hierarchical organisation. Let alone a multiplicity of them.

Why was I interested in that “Order”? I think that is now clear. The subject came up. I checked it out. I now move on.

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Thank-you -

Forgive me for thinking you might have had a personal stake, perhaps even a pressing need - eg a dog in the fight that you were betting on winning or losing - in bringing Melchidezek into the discussion...

Looks like you have that set of words and understandings well categorized, organized, and put away in the file...

Are Christians in the Order of Melchidezek?

Arsenios

 

[Pedrito]

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Post #19, Arsenios: Are Christians in the Order of Melchidezek?

It is a good question. The answer can be determined by breaking that question into two component parts, and considering each in turn:
- According to Holy Scripture, what does the Order of Melchidezek actually mean with respect to Jesus?
- According to Holy Scripture, what is a true believer’s relationship to Jesus, and what is the implication of that?

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1. What does the Order of Melchidezek actually mean with respect to Jesus?

a. Jesus is a priest forever, with a rank likened to that of Melchizedek (Hebrews 5:6)
b. Jesus is called by God, a high priest with a rank likened to that of Melchizedek. (Hebrews 5:10)
c. Jesus was made a high priest for ever with a rank likened to that of Melchizedek. (Hebrews 6:20)
d. The Levitical priesthood performed the intermediary process that linked man to God. (Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy)
e. Melchizedek’s priesthood was superior to that of the Levites. (Hebrews 7:1-11)
f. Melchizedek’s priesthood presaged another priesthood that would be superior to the Levitical. (Hebrews 7:12-28)

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2. What is a true believer’s relationship to Jesus, and what is the implication of that?

True believers are said to be members of the Body of Christ. But does that include inheritance of the high priestly “Order of Melchizedek”?

Do the following statements throw any light on the subject?

a. Jesus, the Son of God who has passed into the heavens, is our great high priest. (Hebrews 4:14)
b. As part of that priestly accession, Jesus has been made higher than the heavens. (Hebrews 7:26)
c. Jesus is our forerunner (and still was a forerunner, not a co-runner, at the time of the epistle being written). (Hebrews 6:20)
d. We have not entered into that state yet. (Hebrews 6:19)

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Based on the above, I submit that Christians can in no way be considered to be “in the Order of Melchidezek”.

And thus another potential door (back door?), possibly invoked to permit the justification of an organised, hierarchical priesthood, remains firmly locked shut.

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