When was Jesus Christ born?

[Ruth]

Just wondering if anyone knows the correct answer.

 

[Alithis]

At the time of the feast of tabernacles(also called the feast of trumpets)when God came and made his tent(tabernacle)among men.

In our calender its the end of september..also the time of the 4th bloodmoon this year.
It is fairly wide knowledge these days that dcember 25 has its origin in paganism .but the remembrance of his birth is not lessened by which day it is remembered.

Albeit it would be nice if we could observe it around the correct time.

 

[psalms 91]

Totally agree

 

[MoreCoffee]

Just wondering if anyone knows the correct answer.

Tradition points to 25th December 1 AD

Blessed Mary was visited by the angel Gabriel on 25th March 1 AD.

Blessed Mary visited saint Elizabeth around 25th June 1 AD.

And interestingly, because he was the last of the old covenant prophets and the greatest of them, saint John the Baptist was conceived around 25th September 1 BC.

Saint John the Baptist was born around 25th June 1 AD.

 

[psalms 91]

Hmmm they kept their sheep not in the fields, follow the courses of temple service and you will arrive at the fall feasts, not EDec 25th, tradition means nothing, so much of it is wrong

 

[MoreCoffee]

Hmmm they kept their sheep not in the fields, follow the courses of temple service and you will arrive at the fall feasts, not EDec 25th, tradition means nothing, so much of it is wrong

Nobody knows the dates for the courses and the holy scriptures do not give them besides which, Palestine is not especially cold in early winter. Sheep and goats are in the fields in December today so why not in 1 AD?

 

[Josiah]

No one knows for sure.

I think most scholars place the year somewhere between 4 BC and 7 BC (meaning the medieval monk who came up with the year "1" missed it by a little bit, lol).

There's NOTHING that remotely indicates the time of the year.


As I understand it, the Hebrews didn't celebrate birthdays and often had no idea what the date even was. But the Romans were OBSESSED with birthdays (seen not so much as an anniversary but as a celebration: the DATE not being all that critical), so when Christianity moved into the ROMAN world, there arose the issue of WHEN Jesus was born, WHEN to especially celebrate Him. Since no one knew, for years LOTS of VARIOUS dates were selected. After Christianity became a function of the Roman Empire, the Empire demanded one universal date be chosen. It was December 25. No one knows why that date was chosen, but there were already several pagan celebrations around that time and it seems the Roman Church perhaps wanted to displace those with a Christian one (killing two birds with one stone).

No one has ever claimed that December 25 is the actual date, so it's NOT the "Birthday of our Lord" but rather, "The FESTIVAL of the Nativity of Our Lord" - the date on which we celebrate it.


Thank you!



Pax




- Josiah

 

[Josiah]

Hmmm they kept their sheep not in the fields, follow the courses of temple service and you will arrive at the fall feasts, not EDec 25th, tradition means nothing, so much of it is wrong

The sheep raised around Jersalem were not for meat and wool - they were very special, prized, expensive sheep for sacrifice in the Temple. Because they were expensive, they were watched year around. The presence of shepherds "watching" their sheep says NOTHING about the time of year since they ALWAYS did that, year around. Now, ELSEWHERE, they'd be more likely to do that in the Spring when lambs are born (and often needed care) which some have suggested makes His birth in the Spring, but again, it's irrelevant here: Sheep around Bethlehem were watched year around.




.

 

[psalms 91]

The sheep raised around Jersalem were not for meat and wool - they were very special, prized, expensive sheep for sacrifice in the Temple. Because they were expensive, they were watched year around. The presence of shepherds "watching" their sheep says NOTHING about the time of year since they ALWAYS did that, year around. Now, ELSEWHERE, they'd be more likely to do that in the Spring when lambs are born (and often needed care) which some have suggested makes His birth in the Spring, but again, it's irrelevant here: Sheep around Bethlehem were watched year around.




.

And thecourses in the temple?

 

[Josiah]

Tradition points to 25th December 1 AD

Blessed Mary was visited by the angel Gabriel on 25th March 1 AD.

SIDE NOTE: That's always been stunning to me..... LONG before anyone came up with a dogma of the PERPETUAL Virginity of Mary, there was this Tradition that the Annunciation/Incarnation happened EXACTLY 9 months (to the day) before His birth. What is the ancient church saying there? What is the proclaimation and belief of early Tradition? That Mary conceived ON THE SAME DAY (perhaps same second!) as the Annunciation. There was no "lag" in the prophecy being fulfilled, not even 24 hours (perhaps not even one minute). IF Tradition is true, then that gives a good insight into why Mary said what she did - perhaps she understood from the Angel that this Incarnation would not be decades or years or even months in the future when she and Joseph would be together but rather would happen NOW. Suddently her questions and the verb tenses make perfect sense. And suddenly, it has NOTHING to do with her being a PERPETUAL virgin. To me, the newer tradition of the PVM simply conflicts with the older tradition of the Incarnation happened ON THE SAME DAY (if not same minute) as the Annunciation.



Back to the issue here....




Pax


- Josiah

Blessed Mary visited saint Elizabeth around 25th June 1 AD.

And interestingly, because he was the last of the old covenant prophets and the greatest of them, saint John the Baptist was conceived around 25th September 1 BC.

Saint John the Baptist was born around 25th June 1 AD.[/QUOTE]

 

[MoreCoffee]

I do not see any argument against the perpetual virginity of the Blessed Virgin Mary from the time of the annunciation and conception of the Lord and the time of his birth nine months later.

 

[Josiah]

I do not see any argument against the perpetual virginity of the Blessed Virgin Mary from the time of the annunciation and conception of the Lord and the time of his birth nine months later.

The earlier Tradition than the PVM embraces the the Incarnation happened AT THE SAME DAY (if not same second) as the Annunication. If this ancient Tradition (older than the PVM) is correct (and Catholics usually swallow such), then unless the Tradition is wrong or Mary was wrong, it means the questions Mary asked were directed NOT to some date decades in the future (toward the time of her death, perhaps) or even years or months in the future (to support the PVM) but directed to the NOW. Since I do not NOW know a man, TODAY. Her response to the Angel thus has NOTHING to do with the PVM. I think I was 10 or so when I figured that out.


Back to the issue..... I didn't mean to detour the thread



Pax



- Josiah

 

[MoreCoffee]

I think that 25th December is likely to be the correct day, tradition is not empty speculation while guess work about priestly courses and dates is.

 

[psalms 91]

The courses are well defined and while it takes a lot of digging you can trace it out. That is fact and not speculation, if you are willing to do the work then you will find the answer

 

[MoreCoffee]

The courses are well defined and while it takes a lot of digging you can trace it out. That is fact and not speculation, if you are willing to do the work then you will find the answer

Well defined by whom?

 

[Alithis]

At the time of the feast of tabernacles(also called the feast of trumpets)when God came and made his tent(tabernacle)among men.

In our calender its the end of september..also the time of the 4th bloodmoon this year.
It is fairly wide knowledge these days that december 25 has its origin in paganism .but the remembrance of his birth is not lessened by which day it is remembered.

Albeit it would be nice if we could observe it around the correct time.

you see nothing , but , nothing ,is random in the scriptures ,,not one day nor time nor feast which the LOrd God set in place .
he was born into the world at the time of the feast of tabernacles according with all the pattern of scripture and he was sacrificed at the time of passover for he is the one the only true passover lamb to end all pass overs "-said John the baptist by the holy spirit ,," behold the LAMB of GOD who takes away the sin of the world .

 

[Alithis]

I do not see any argument against the perpetual virginity of the Blessed Virgin Mary from the time of the annunciation and conception of the Lord and the time of his birth nine months later.

what on earth has that got to do with when he was born ? she wasn't a perpetual virgin her and joseph went on to have kids , the bible says so plain clear simple and precise .

 

[Alithis]

The courses are well defined and while it takes a lot of digging you can trace it out. That is fact and not speculation, if you are willing to do the work then you will find the answer

what? your saying God did everything according to his plan and will and in his perfect timing and traditions are wrong ... lol how dare you suggest traditions are wrong and the word of God is right ..


yahh preach it bro

the simple method is .. the lord was about 30 years old when he stepped into is full calling publicly and he ministered for 3 and a half year .. and was crucified at the time of passover in accordance with the scripture .. So go backwards 33 and a half years and you arrive with a variance of days between the hebrew calendar and our calendar .. at the end of september and beginning of october ... the feast of tabernacles - and the lord came and tabernacled among men .

in contrast 25 december has zero prophetic bible basis and is know quite plainly for its pagan origin . and not adopted by christianity even remotely until rome introduced it as a set holiday in AD 324 .. for 300 years before this it did not exist and was never observed . yet another teaching introduced from outside of the bible by none other then rome .

bill -for you interest check this link out http://www.hope-of-israel.org/cmas1.htm - i have not read it in depth enough to say i agree with everything in that ..but the infomation is presented in quite a nice uncomplicated manner .

 

[MoreCoffee]

SIDE NOTE: That's always been stunning to me..... LONG before anyone came up with a dogma of the PERPETUAL Virginity of Mary, there was this Tradition that the Annunciation/Incarnation happened EXACTLY 9 months (to the day) before His birth. What is the ancient church saying there? What is the proclaimation and belief of early Tradition? That Mary conceived ON THE SAME DAY (perhaps same second!) as the Annunciation. There was no "lag" in the prophecy being fulfilled, not even 24 hours (perhaps not even one minute). IF Tradition is true, then that gives a good insight into why Mary said what she did - perhaps she understood from the Angel that this Incarnation would not be decades or years or even months in the future when she and Joseph would be together but rather would happen NOW. Suddently her questions and the verb tenses make perfect sense. And suddenly, it has NOTHING to do with her being a PERPETUAL virgin. To me, the newer tradition of the PVM simply conflicts with the older tradition of the Incarnation happened ON THE SAME DAY (if not same minute) as the Annunciation.

Back to the issue here....

Pax
- Josiah

Blessed Mary visited saint Elizabeth around 25th June 1 AD.

And interestingly, because he was the last of the old covenant prophets and the greatest of them, saint John the Baptist was conceived around 25th September 1 BC.

Saint John the Baptist was born around 25th June 1 AD.

I do not see any argument against the perpetual virginity of the Blessed Virgin Mary from the time of the annunciation and conception of the Lord and the time of his birth nine months later.

The earlier Tradition than the PVM embraces the the Incarnation happened AT THE SAME DAY (if not same second) as the Annunication. If this ancient Tradition (older than the PVM) is correct (and Catholics usually swallow such), then unless the Tradition is wrong or Mary was wrong, it means the questions Mary asked were directed NOT to some date decades in the future (toward the time of her death, perhaps) or even years or months in the future (to support the PVM) but directed to the NOW. Since I do not NOW know a man, TODAY. Her response to the Angel thus has NOTHING to do with the PVM. I think I was 10 or so when I figured that out.


Back to the issue..... I didn't mean to detour the thread

Pax
- Josiah

what on earth has that got to do with when he was born ? she wasn't a perpetual virgin her and joseph went on to have kids , the bible says so plain clear simple and precise .

It appears to be some sort of speculation from Josiah ... I don't see the basis for it. It is best to move on

 

[Ruth]

Thank you for all of your answers. This is very interesting!