When people say I'm a Christian but...

[Edward429451]

Yes, Christians will do good works. But what if you don't always see my good works? Or question that what I'm doing is good because you don't see both sides of a situation? You'd think I was not a Christian? That's why we can't be the ones judging other based on what they do or don't do.

That's true I guess.

There are some really amazing non-Christians who help others, volunteer and work at food pantries and shelters. They're such great people you'd think they were the Lords, right?

Why would you think that volunteer workers are Lords?

I've been on this Christian forum for 10 years. I know there are many faithful people here, but the biggest rule violation is name calling. So should I suspect they aren't truly believers because they sin like that and aren't loving toward their neighbor? Nonsense. We're both saints and sinners at the same time.

Not at all Sister. That's a great time to remember that no Christian is Perfect. Only, Forgiven. So people have good days and bad days. On forums you can't see their good works, but you can hear how they talk. And sometimes, you can tell a lot about a person by how they talk. In a way, you can see their fruit, or Light over the text, by how they phrase stuff and so forth. Sometimes I can tell how much one does or doesnt read the Bible for real, by how they talk. Debate. Name callers. Inane questions that anyone on their 1st day of the word 101 learns has learned, and all sorts of things like that.

Now it isnt 100% accurate, but many times, I am right. Kind of like, reading body language over the text, Lol! Just because a person has a bad day and slips and says something inappropriate to someone else doesn't mean they are not a Christian. They might have lots of fruit, but unperfected and still human, had a bad day, but tomorrow may be better. So it is cumulative and over time you get a feel for people.

 

[tango]

I meant to say true fruit. We can see fruit, but we don't know if it's good things done by believers or non-believers, right? I mean, I see nonbelievers doing nice things for people all the time, but if it's not done because of faith in God, it isn't fruit.

If Jesus told us we would know people by their fruit how does that turn into the idea that we can't see the true fruit? We can't judge someone's heart but we can see if the fruit is rotten.

Admittedly people can put on a good show so there's some merit to the argument that what looks like good fruit might be (metaphorically) plastic or something. You mentioned in another post about how we might not see all of someone's works, or we might only see one side of a situation, but if we see someone for any length of time we can get a good feel for whether they are walking the walk or just talking the talk. I'm thinking of a guy I used to know who liked to strut his stuff leading church services but more or less left his wife to do all the family stuff alone - the way she had to do absolutely everything regarding their children she might as well have been a single mother (I use the past tense because I don't know if it's still the case after losing contact with them).

It's always pretty sad when the people who don't claim to be Christians show more Christ-like fruit than the people who do. I can't help thinking of the warning that "not everybody who says Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven".

 

[Lamb]

That's true I guess.



Why would you think that volunteer workers are Lords?



Not at all Sister. That's a great time to remember that no Christian is Perfect. Only, Forgiven. So people have good days and bad days. On forums you can't see their good works, but you can hear how they talk. And sometimes, you can tell a lot about a person by how they talk. In a way, you can see their fruit, or Light over the text, by how they phrase stuff and so forth. Sometimes I can tell how much one does or doesnt read the Bible for real, by how they talk. Debate. Name callers. Inane questions that anyone on their 1st day of the word 101 learns has learned, and all sorts of things like that.

Now it isnt 100% accurate, but many times, I am right. Kind of like, reading body language over the text, Lol! Just because a person has a bad day and slips and says something inappropriate to someone else doesn't mean they are not a Christian. They might have lots of fruit, but unperfected and still human, had a bad day, but tomorrow may be better. So it is cumulative and over time you get a feel for people.

If Jesus told us we would know people by their fruit how does that turn into the idea that we can't see the true fruit? We can't judge someone's heart but we can see if the fruit is rotten.

Admittedly people can put on a good show so there's some merit to the argument that what looks like good fruit might be (metaphorically) plastic or something. You mentioned in another post about how we might not see all of someone's works, or we might only see one side of a situation, but if we see someone for any length of time we can get a good feel for whether they are walking the walk or just talking the talk. I'm thinking of a guy I used to know who liked to strut his stuff leading church services but more or less left his wife to do all the family stuff alone - the way she had to do absolutely everything regarding their children she might as well have been a single mother (I use the past tense because I don't know if it's still the case after losing contact with them).

It's always pretty sad when the people who don't claim to be Christians show more Christ-like fruit than the people who do. I can't help thinking of the warning that "not everybody who says Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven".

The point I'm making to the both of you is that you can THINK you know who is a Christian because you see them doing good. Only God knows who has faith and who doesn't. Even wolves pretend to be shepherds, and scripture warns us about that, so keep that in mind.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

Only God can truly see the fruit, so that can be deceptive to human eyes, right?

I found this to be interesting, and perhaps alludes to the quote above
From a hymn sung this past week:

"To those who help in Christ have found
and would in works of love abound
it shows what deeds are his delight
and should be done as good and right.

But those who scornfully disdain
God's law shall then in sin remain;
its terror in their ear resounds
and keeps their wickedness in bounds."

Link:
The Law of God is Good and Wise

So the works of love can be seen just as the works of those who "scornfully disdain" God's law?

 

[Lamb]

I found this to be interesting, and perhaps alludes to the quote above
From a hymn sung this past week:

"To those who help in Christ have found
and would in works of love abound
it shows what deeds are his delight
and should be done as good and right.

But those who scornfully disdain
God's law shall then in sin remain;
its terror in their ear resounds
and keeps their wickedness in bounds."

Link:
The Law of God is Good and Wise

So the works of love can be seen just as the works of those who "scornfully disdain" God's law?

Do you agree that Atheists do good things even though God doesn't count them as good? That's why people can't point to someone and say that those are definitely good works. I have plenty of non-believer friends who are kind and loving to other people and you would think they're Christian, but they aren't.

 

[Lamb]

Thinking more on the verse of "you will know them by their fruits" we have to go back to the rest of the context of what Jesus was saying. In the beginning of that text, Jesus said to beware false prophets in Matthew 7. Those verses pertain to looking for doctrine (teachings). There are people who want to lead believers astray, but are their teachings pointing to Jesus and His salvation or to self to try to get to heaven?

 

[Edward429451]

There are people who want to lead believers astray, but are their teachings pointing to Jesus and His salvation or to self to try to get to heaven?

I don't know anyone saying you can save yourself. It should be easy when they start talking. Either they start talking about Jesus or they don't. Dick Tracy!

 

[Lamb]

I don't know anyone saying you can save yourself. It should be easy when they start talking. Either they start talking about Jesus or they don't. Dick Tracy!

People can talk about Jesus but turn His words into things He didn't say for salvation.

 

[Edward429451]

People can talk about Jesus but turn His words into things He didn't say for salvation.

Oh I see what you're saying. But the only people who would get confused is the people who do not read the word of God for themselves.

Hmm, not many people do read it, huh? So perhaps you have made a good point. So the answer would be for everyone to go read the word of God for yourself and see what it actually says. Then when someone comes out with something about Jesus that is wrong, it's immediately apparent to you.

 

[Edward429451]

So if a Believer is professing to follow Jesus, but they wont read the word, and they like to let someone else interpret it for them, they can be led astray. But if they wont read the word of God and simply listen to some man...then who are they really following?. Not Jesus.

Jesus 101 tells us read the word of God, study daily, pray unceasingly, so it's like they registered for school but never showed up for class. Will they Graduate?

 

[Frankj]

Do you agree that Atheists do good things even though God doesn't count them as good? That's why people can't point to someone and say that those are definitely good works. I have plenty of non-believer friends who are kind and loving to other people and you would think they're Christian, but they aren't.

FWIW:

People can talk about Jesus but turn His words into things He didn't say for salvation.

Good lies are almost entirely true to cover up the lie within them.

The Best lie, however, is entirely true but cleverly told in a manner that makes one believe a lie.