When friends ask about finding the right church, what's the right advice?

[Albion]

We hear this all the time, it seems. Someone is asking how to find a really Bible-centered congregation or one "that teaches correctly." We aren't sure even what they believe, and it's usually the case that they don't either. However, telling them to stay home and read the Bible doesn't seem like the right answer, so how would you direct their search?

 

[Lees]

We hear this all the time, it seems. Someone is asking how to find a really Bible-centered congregation or one "that teaches correctly." We aren't sure even what they believe, and it's usually the case that they don't either. However, telling them to stay home and read the Bible doesn't seem like the right answer, so how would you direct their search?

It is a real problem today. Years ago, not so much.

When I was part of the workforce I had many opportunities to witness almost on a daily basis. So, this question would come up quite often. I had three main rules to help.

1.) Make sure the Church believes the Bible is the Word of God. From (Genesis) to (Revelation).

2.) No women preachers or women Bible teachers in a mixed assembly.

3.) No homosexual preachers or Bible teachers.

As to doctrine, one must ask the Church for a statement of faith. Churches today have gotten away from that, which is regretable. A church that doesn't have a statement of faith probably doesn't have much to offer doctrine wise. Or what they are offering they know is questionable.

Lees

 

[Lamb]

I'm guessing this question is for our online friends because the friends who live near me I would invite to the church I attend. Friends who live back in the other state I used to live it, I'd recommend my previous church.

For online friends I'd suggest a LCMS or WELS church in the US just because I know they would hear Law and Gospel rightly distinguished.

 

[Lanman87]

1. Find a church that has Orthodox Christology. Who Jesus is, Trinitarian, and so forth
2. Find a church that is Gospel centered. Simply put, a Gospel centered church is all about Jesus and His work on our behalf and living in and displaying His Grace and Mercy. Some churches are preacher center, program centered, tradition centered, and even "Social justice" centered.
3. Find a church that has a strong sense of community. A place where it is easy to make friends, where it is safe to share your struggles/sins, and a place where you are loved and supported and can easily love and support others.
4. Find a church that digs deep into scripture and tackles deep theological issues instead of giving shallow answers.
5. Find a church that respects church History and how the people of God have adjusted to different questions, historical ages, and church controversies

Having said that, it is very difficult to find a church with all those traits. 1 & 3 are probably the easiest. 4&5 are very rare in American Evangelicalism.

 

[Albion]

I'm guessing this question is for our online friends because the friends who live near me I would invite to the church I attend. Friends who live back in the other state I used to live it, I'd recommend my previous church.

For online friends I'd suggest a LCMS or WELS church in the US just because I know they would hear Law and Gospel rightly distinguished.

Yes, of course. Invite. However, this ^ amounts to trying to steer the inquirers to your own denomination.

My interest has been in helping the inquirer ( who usually knows almost nothing about denominations but has committed himself to Christ and believes the Bible) to a sound church/congregation, even if it may hold different non-essential beliefs--or has a different style of worship.

There are some denominations I'd say to avoid in probably all cases, but I wouldn't want to promote my own church over every other one, so long as the essential doctrines are the same. So that seems to require some discussion with the person before recommendations are made.

 

[Lamb]

Yes, of course. Invite. However, this ^ amounts to trying to steer the inquirers to your own denomination.

My interest has been in helping the inquirer ( who usually knows almost nothing about denominations but has committed himself to Christ and believes the Bible) to a sound church/congregation, even if it may hold different non-essential beliefs--or has a different style of worship.

There are some denominations I'd say to avoid in probably all cases, but I wouldn't want to promote my own church over every other one, so long as the essential doctrines are the same. So that seems to require some discussion with the person before recommendations are made.

You aren't very certain about your own denomination then?

 

[Josiah]

For online friends I'd suggest a LCMS or WELS church in the US

I do the same....



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[Albion]

You aren't very certain about your own denomination then?

Well, that isn't the point. Our churches are traditional and very ceremonial, but I tend not to feel like telling a new Christian who doesn't have any familiarity with the finer points that "this is the one for you!"

A lot of people do that, of course, and it is good to be welcoming and to extend the invitation you referred to. But if the new Christian and inquirer has come to you or me for help, and he feels personally drawn towards a non-liturgical kind of church, or one that practices open Communion, for example, or the members are oriented towards the idea that return of Christ is immanent, or he has other family members that attend such and such a church nearby...I am reluctant to steer that person away from such local churches just because I have a different opinion.

To push my own congregation, believing it a perfect choice, may very well amount to a missed opportunity since the inquirer could expect almost anyone they'd ask "how do I decide?" to reply that their own church is wonderful, etc. The inquirer almost expects that if the person he asks is a friend or acquaintance.

 

[Fritz Kobus]

I'm guessing this question is for our online friends because the friends who live near me I would invite to the church I attend. Friends who live back in the other state I used to live it, I'd recommend my previous church.

For online friends I'd suggest a LCMS or WELS church in the US just because I know they would hear Law and Gospel rightly distinguished.

Except that there are some areas where the LCMS churches are liberal, and to be avoided. A WELS pastor told my daughter what areas to avoid but I forgot, maybe I can get that info from her. It has been some years though.

At college at the University of Michgian the LCMS church was pretty bad, some of the guys walked out it was so bad. I found on that college campus the closer to the campus the more liberal was the church.

 

[Albion]

Except that there are some areas where the LCMS churches are liberal, and to be avoided. A WELS pastor told my daughter what areas to avoid but I forgot, maybe I can get that info from her. It has been some years though.

At college at the University of Michgian the LCMS church was pretty bad, some of the guys walked out it was so bad. I found on that college campus the closer to the campus the more liberal was the church.

I expect that you'd find that same situation in the case of most campuses and irrespective of denomination.

 

[Fritz Kobus]

I expect that you'd find that same situation in the case of most campuses and irrespective of denomination.

Oh yes. The Episcopalian church at the main campus was REALLY bad.

 

[Lamb]

Well, that isn't the point. Our churches are traditional and very ceremonial, but I tend not to feel like telling a new Christian who doesn't have any familiarity with the finer points that "this is the one for you!"

A lot of people do that, of course, and it is good to be welcoming and to extend the invitation you referred to. But if the new Christian and inquirer has come to you or me for help, and he feels personally drawn towards a non-liturgical kind of church, or one that practices open Communion, for example, or the members are oriented towards the idea that return of Christ is immanent, or he has other family members that attend such and such a church nearby...I am reluctant to steer that person away from such local churches just because I have a different opinion.

To push my own congregation, believing it a perfect choice, may very well amount to a missed opportunity since the inquirer could expect almost anyone they'd ask "how do I decide?" to reply that their own church is wonderful, etc. The inquirer almost expects that if the person he asks is a friend or acquaintance.

The liturgy isn't just about a style of service that might be palatable to someone. If I told someone to attend a LCMS or WELS church, I would be expected that the person would be fed on God's Word since the liturgy is filled with it. I would expect the Gospel to preached rightly so that a seed is planted. I can't expect that from other denominations with great confidence.

Except that there are some areas where the LCMS churches are liberal, and to be avoided. A WELS pastor told my daughter what areas to avoid but I forgot, maybe I can get that info from her. It has been some years though.

At college at the University of Michgian the LCMS church was pretty bad, some of the guys walked out it was so bad. I found on that college campus the closer to the campus the more liberal was the church.

Yes, there are more churches turning liberal, but for the most part LCMS and WELS are still very much conservative and have a liturgical service that will feed the spiritually hungry.

 

[Albion]

The liturgy isn't just about a style of service that might be palatable to someone. If I told someone to attend a LCMS or WELS church, I would be expected that the person would be fed on God's Word since the liturgy is filled with it. I would expect the Gospel to preached rightly so that a seed is planted. I can't expect that from other denominations with great confidence.

Okay. if that is your approach, then it is. And it answers the question.

I suppose that if the person being asked thinks there is only "one true church" and it's his own denomination, the urge to proselytize is hard to resist. My own view of the matter is that trying to herd a sincere convert who has yet to find a church home into my own denomination when he asks how he should go about finding a church for himself is likely to be counterproductive.

The liturgy isn't just about a style of service that might be palatable to someone.

Certainly. But that was just one of several examples I used of issues that might affect a newcomer's choice of church home.

 

[Lamb]

Okay. if that is your approach, then it is. And it answers the question.

I suppose that if the person being asked thinks there is only "one true church" and it's his own denomination, the urge to proselytize is hard to resist. My own view of the matter is that trying to herd a sincere convert who has yet to find a church home into my own denomination when he asks how he should go about finding a church for himself is likely to be counterproductive.


Certainly. But that was just one of several examples I used of issues that might affect a newcomer's choice of church home.

To me that shows that you don't have confidence that your denomination is feeding people. It's God's Word that feeds people, plants the seeds, baptism that waters, etc... I have every confidence that someone coming into a LCMS or WELS church will receive what God wants that person to receive.

 

[Josiah]

Except that there are some areas where the LCMS churches are liberal, and to be avoided. A WELS pastor told my daughter what areas to avoid but I forgot, maybe I can get that info from her. It has been some years though.

At college at the University of Michgian the LCMS church was pretty bad, some of the guys walked out it was so bad. I found on that college campus the closer to the campus the more liberal was the church.

My experience is that there are no "liberal" LCMS pastors or congregations... it's not allowed. I don't think you'll find LCMS pastors insisting that Jesus had no divine nature, that the Bible is just mythology and not genuine or normative, that the virgin birth is a laughable lie, that the resurrection never happened, that Communion is just bread and wine and nothing more than a symbol. In fact, LCMS pastors and congregations are committed to the Lutheran Confessions and tend to teach accordingly.

What I know DOES exist are LCMS pastors and congregations that differ on CUSTOMS, practices, traditions... what is called "praxis" (NOT doctrine). Some LCMS congregations forbid anyone to receive Communion unless they are a bone fide, confirmed member of THAT congregation.... others are more open. Some LCMS congregations forbid women from holding any office, teaching any male over the age of 12, or voting in congregational meetings (in one case I heard of, forbidding women to sing in the choir)... others don't do that. Some insist on using page 5 (and rarely page 15) from the 1947 LCMS hymnals and reject any other worship service, some use other hymnals or even "contemporary" forms of worship. Some celebrate Communion every Sunday, some once a month. In some, members do the Sign of the Cross, in others they don't. Praxis varies.

There are districts where "traditional" praxis is more common (for example, forbidding women from voting or reading the lessons or teaching teen boys) - Iowa East is known for that, and Districts where one might find more openness to other practices - Texas District, Northwest District are probably good examples there. But in none is it permitted to reach that the virgin birth is a myth, the resurrection never happened, Communion is only a symbol, etc. PRAXIS varies.... doctrine does not.

Now, Catholics and Mormons and Methodists may hold that the LCMS teaches wrong doctrine, but I don't think any of them would claim it's "liberal" - just wrong at some points.



To the point: There is no universal, pan-Christian "license" or "certification" for pastors (sound or otherwise). Whether they are "valid" is a denominational declaration; many pastors ARE certified by their denomination. Some of course just bought their ordination online or just declared themselves so. And yes, some belong to questionable denominations with questionable teachings.


Blessings on your Lenten observation.


- Josiah




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[Albion]

To me that shows that you don't have confidence that your denomination is feeding people.

Not at all. And, frankly, I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how you came up with the idea that I "don't have confidence that my denomination is feeding people."

The idea of helping a friend who is looking for a church home without deliberately steering him or her towards my own church and away from every other stable, orthodox, Bible-believing, dignified church seems to me to be taking advantage of that person's trust. If he'd said "you belong to a church, don't you; could I join it, too?" would of course be a different matter and not what this thread was asking.

 

[Fritz Kobus]

My experience is that there are no "liberal" LCMS pastors or congregations... it's not allowed. I don't think you'll find LCMS pastors insisting that Jesus had no divine nature, that the Bible is just mythology and not genuine or normative, that the virgin birth is a laughable lie, that the resurrection never happened, that Communion is just bread and wine and nothing more than a symbol. In fact, LCMS pastors and congregations are committed to the Lutheran Confessions and tend to teach accordingly.

My daughter has taken courses at one or more LCMS Concordia Universities/Colleges over the past 10 years. I showed her your entire post and here is her response:

"I hope none of them teach those things but they do teach wrong things. And one of my Concordia professors was teaching theistic evolution. My LCMS pastor said he didn’t like it but that happens."

Additionally, here are a couple articles about problems at LCMS colleges:

http://cnnewhaven.com/3M60-13b/index.html#issue/7

http://cnnewhaven.com/3M60-13b/index.html#issue/6