What's the difference between God's will be done and "God wants all..."

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What's the difference between God's will be done and "God wants all..."

We know that God's will be done whether we try to get in the way or not. I look at Jonah for an example of that. But then we have some scripture that states God wants all to be saved and we know that's not going to happen because of other scripture. So what's the difference?
 

psalms 91

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Free will is the difference, we choose life or death, blessing or cursing. We know that Gods plan was to deliver Israel from the Egyptians and He did but when at the mountain they were given a choice and we know that not all accepted God or continued to follow and those who did not died in the wilderness. Example; Those bitten by the serpents.
 

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What's the difference between God's will be done and "God wants all..."

We know that God's will be done whether we try to get in the way or not. I look at Jonah for an example of that. But then we have some scripture that states God wants all to be saved and we know that's not going to happen because of other scripture. So what's the difference?

The one is His sovereign will, meaning that what He said or pre ordained will come to pass.
The other is His permissive will, where we have a say in the matter. He wants all to be saved yet not all will come to him.


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MennoSota

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The one is His sovereign will, meaning that what He said or pre ordained will come to pass.
The other is His permissive will, where we have a say in the matter. He wants all to be saved yet not all will come to him.


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Where do we find God having two separate wills in the Bible?
I know that the philosophy of free-will requires a mechanism by which God's will becomes subject under man's will.
God ordains all things. Does God say "yes" to the human will rejecting him, even though His own will is that all (universal) will be saved? Does He subject Himself under the authority of man's rebellion?
 

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What's the difference between God's will be done and "God wants all..."

We know that God's will be done whether we try to get in the way or not. I look at Jonah for an example of that. But then we have some scripture that states God wants all to be saved and we know that's not going to happen because of other scripture. So what's the difference?

There is no difference in that verse.
The "all" is not mankind universal.
 

MennoSota

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What is Peter discussing in this section?
Answer: Judgment. They say that Jesus has not returned, in a similar way that people didn't believe Noah and the coming flood.
Who is Peter addressing in verse 8?
Answer: The beloved (the elect-see chapter 1).
Who is Peter addressing in verse 9?
Answer: The same beloved found in verse 8.
Who is God patient toward?
Answer: The beloved of verse 8. The elect of chapter 1.
Who does God will to reach repentance?
Answer: The beloved. The elect.
What will finally come to pass?
Answer: God's judgment of the earth (like he did in the days of Noah).
Read the text and see for yourself.
2 Peter 3:1-13
3 This is now the second letter that I am writing to you, beloved. In both of them I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, 2 that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles, 3 knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. 4 They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5 For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, 6 and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. 7 But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

8 But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.

11 Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, 12 waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn! 13 But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
 

MennoSota

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Here's 2 Peter 1:1-2, 10-11
Two things:
1) Peter said his audience had equal standing with him and the apostles. So much for some here who put the Apostles on a pedestal.
2) Peter says they are elect.
Take this and connect it with 2 Peter 3 in my earlier post.

1*Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:
2*May grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.

*10*Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall. 11*For in this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
 

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Where do we find God having two separate wills in the Bible?
I know that the philosophy of free-will requires a mechanism by which God's will becomes subject under man's will.
God ordains all things. Does God say "yes" to the human will rejecting him, even though His own will is that all (universal) will be saved? Does He subject Himself under the authority of man's rebellion?

You misunderstood. What I meant was that God had one will yet there are two aspects of that will, not that God has two wills.




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MennoSota

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You misunderstood. What I meant was that God had one will yet there are two aspects of that will, not that God has two wills.




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Indeed. God has one Sovereign will that is never thwarted, never usurped and never kept from being accomplished by man.
Thus, man can never say that his will is free. Man is always subject under God's will. Man is never free.
In fact, the Bible tells us we are either slaves to sin or slaves to righteousness. Who is righteous? God alone is righteous.
There is no such thing as free-will. It cannot be without tearing God down and placing man on the throne.
This does not mean that determinism, as defined by an unthinking universe via evolution, is taking place. God ordains our lives by giving us the ability to think rationally and approving of our thoughts and actions or denying us thoughts and actions outside of His will.
God tells us that humans will not seek Him. This is the consequence of Adams sin. God must choose to open the eyes of men so they know Him as their Savior.
 

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There is no such thing as free-will

Are you a robot? Of course we have free will, did Adam and Eve have a choice? Or Did God remote control them to walk up to the tree and eat? Wouldn't that contradict Gods warning for them not to do that? Am I just a robot being forced under my will to type out this message?

Did you learn this from Jim Carry who believes that everything just happens and we have no control but are just happening?
 

psalms 91

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Where do we find God having two separate wills in the Bible?
I know that the philosophy of free-will requires a mechanism by which God's will becomes subject under man's will.
God ordains all things. Does God say "yes" to the human will rejecting him, even though His own will is that all (universal) will be saved? Does He subject Himself under the authority of man's rebellion?
Look around, are all saved? Have all been saved? That should answer your question
 

MennoSota

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Are you a robot? Of course we have free will, did Adam and Eve have a choice? Or Did God remote control them to walk up to the tree and eat? Wouldn't that contradict Gods warning for them not to do that? Am I just a robot being forced under my will to type out this message?

Did you learn this from Jim Carry who believes that everything just happens and we have no control but are just happening?

We make life choices within the will of God. That's not free-will. Free-will means there is no Sovereign power that can stop our actions or repel what we determine to do. Humans do not have such ability. We are either slaves to sin or slaves to righteousness. The only question is: Who's your master?
Jim Carey simply embraces the logical outcome of evolution without a Creator.
 

MennoSota

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Look around, are all saved? Have all been saved? That should answer your question

Not all are saved because God is not obligated to pardon rebels of their sins. God chooses to be gracious to some, because...He is Sovereign...and He can.
You ignore all the scripture that tells you that God chooses and that no human ever seeks God. Why do you ignore scripture? Is it because you believe the philosophy of free-will more than you believe God's word?
91, I provided a very clear observation of 2 Peter 3, which shows that verse 9 is not talking about universal will of God to save everyone. You just misunderstand that passage. You then attempt a prooftext from your bad interpretation.
 

psalms 91

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We make life choices within the will of God. That's not free-will. Free-will means there is no Sovereign power that can stop our actions or repel what we determine to do. Humans do not have such ability. We are either slaves to sin or slaves to righteousness. The only question is: Who's your master?
Jim Carey simply embraces the logical outcome of evolution without a Creator.
Actually we make choices good or bad and bad choices are not in the will of God. You are making it sound like murder is within the will of God or dont you agree with that? You said everything man does has to be within the will of God, see how rediculous that is?
 

psalms 91

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Not all are saved because God is not obligated to pardon rebels of their sins. God chooses to be gracious to some, because...He is Sovereign...and He can.
You ignore all the scripture that tells you that God chooses and that no human ever seeks God. Why do you ignore scripture? Is it because you believe the philosophy of free-will more than you believe God's word?
91, I provided a very clear observation of 2 Peter 3, which shows that verse 9 is not talking about universal will of God to save everyone. You just misunderstand that passage. You then attempt a prooftext from your bad interpretation.
And you ignore scripture that says we choose, Exodus is the best example of this. Ignore all you want and deny that man has free will but it wont make it any more right
 

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We make life choices within the will of God. That's not free-will. Free-will means there is no Sovereign power that can stop our actions or repel what we determine to do. Humans do not have such ability. We are either slaves to sin or slaves to righteousness. The only question is: Who's your master?
Jim Carey simply embraces the logical outcome of evolution without a Creator.
Do you ever sin? Is that Gods will?
 

MennoSota

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Actually we make choices good or bad and bad choices are not in the will of God. You are making it sound like murder is within the will of God or dont you agree with that? You said everything man does has to be within the will of God, see how rediculous that is?
Bad choices are allowed by God's ordained will. If God didn't want you to do it, he wouldn't let you. See Balaam and the donkey for reference.
God gives a "yes" to evil creatures doing evil things to other evil creatures. God shows us this in the book of Job and in Habakkuk.
If God did not say yes, all evil would be removed...including you and me. God would rightly damn us because of our corruption.
Evil happens today because God is patiently waiting to redeem His elect. In the meantime, rebels gonna be rebels and God gonna say yes as they rebel. That's mercy and patience in the midst of allowing evil. If He stopped all evil, grace would no longer be available.
Because God has redeemed you, he gives the okay for you to sin, with the knowledge that in His will, He will use it to for His good work of discipline and sanctification in your life.
Romans 8:28-30
28*And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. 29*For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30*And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
 

MennoSota

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And you ignore scripture that says we choose, Exodus is the best example of this. Ignore all you want and deny that man has free will but it wont make it any more right

I explain Joshua and those famous verses. I also note that those verses are used in relation to the Mosaic Covenant and the Law, by which no one can be saved. Not then...not now. The Law condemns, it doesn't save. I suggest you are leading with your man-made philosophy of free-will and then running to the Bible to force verses to fit your philosophy.
 

psalms 91

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I explain Joshua and those famous verses. I also note that those verses are used in relation to the Mosaic Covenant and the Law, by which no one can be saved. Not then...not now. The Law condemns, it doesn't save. I suggest you are leading with your man-made philosophy of free-will and then running to the Bible to force verses to fit your philosophy.
Wrong, and scripture proves you wrong but hang on to those beliefs I am done here. I have said what needs said for anyone reading this thread
 

MennoSota

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Do you ever sin? Is that Gods will?
I sin often. So far, God has said yes to me sinning. If He said no...I wouldn't be able to do it or I'd be dead. Read about Balaam and the donkey.
 
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