What Would You Do?

[BiblicallyCorrect]

Hebrews 13:17
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves:
for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account,
that they may do it with joy, and not with grief:
for that is unprofitable for you.


What do you have to say to this,
that is written in the book of Hebrews
concerning you? If I had rule over you
would you obey me and submit yourselves to it?
Or would you rebel and not live by this written in the book of Hebrews
as you are commanded by it?

 

[tango]

Looks like a loaded question. Since you don't have rule over me the answer is irrelevant.

 

[Albion]

That verse's advice is clearly not meant as a "blank check," i.e. advice that says to obey the rulers NO MATTER WHAT they demand of you.

As we all know, there are many passages in Scripture that teach the difference between moral behavior and immoral, unjust, unGodly behavior. Therefore, the idea that the verse in question could be saying to obey every governmental demand without exception is one that simply cannot be correct.

 

[BiblicallyCorrect]

Looks like a loaded question. Since you don't have rule over me the answer is irrelevant.

Hebrews 13:17
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves:
for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account,
that they may do it with joy, and not with grief:
for that is unprofitable for you.


What do you have to say to this,
that is written in the book of Hebrews
concerning you? If someone had rule over you
would you obey them and submit yourselves to it?
Or would you rebel and not live by this written in the book of Hebrews
as you are commanded by it?

 

[BiblicallyCorrect]

That verse's advice is clearly not meant as a "blank check," i.e. advice that says to obey the rulers NO MATTER WHAT they demand of you.

As we all know, there are many passages in Scripture that teach the difference between moral behavior and immoral, unjust, unGodly behavior. Therefore, the idea that the verse in question could be saying to obey every governmental demand without exception is one that simply cannot be correct.

I will take that as a No, you would not submit and obey.

 

[Albion]

I will take that as a No, you would not submit and obey.

You need to read my post again, if that is your conclusion.

 

[Lamb]

Well, I'm Admin here and rule over all of you guys....

This seems more like the start of a debate thread which isn't allowed in the Bible Study forum, so I'm moving it to Christian Theology.

 

[tango]

Hebrews 13:17
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves:
for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account,
that they may do it with joy, and not with grief:
for that is unprofitable for you.


What do you have to say to this,
that is written in the book of Hebrews
concerning you? If someone had rule over you
would you obey them and submit yourselves to it?
Or would you rebel and not live by this written in the book of Hebrews
as you are commanded by it?

Simply repeating the question really isn't a useful response here. Feel free to refer back to the answer I originally gave. If you repost the question again you'll get the same answer again.

 

[Messy]

Hebrews 13:17
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves:
for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account,
that they may do it with joy, and not with grief:
for that is unprofitable for you.


What do you have to say to this,
that is written in the book of Hebrews
concerning you? If I had rule over you
would you obey me and submit yourselves to it?
Or would you rebel and not live by this written in the book of Hebrews
as you are commanded by it?

Huh? Rule over you? In Dutch it says pastors and watch.

17Obey your pastors and submit (to them), for they are the ones who watch over your souls, and they will be held accountable there. Let them do it with joy, and not with sighs, for that would not profit you.

 

[Albion]

Huh? Rule over you? In Dutch it says pastors and watch.

17Obey your pastors and submit (to them), for they are the ones who watch over your souls, and they will be held accountable there. Let them do it with joy, and not with sighs, for that would not profit you.

You have raised a good point. The issue is generally taken to be about political rulers, but that's because other verses address this issue that way, especially in Romans 13.

However, a quick survey of a large number of English language versions, with reference to the verse in Hebrews, shows that most of them render it there as leaders and a few do translate it as spiritual leaders or pastors.

 

[BiblicallyCorrect]

Looks like a loaded question. Since you don't have rule over me the answer is irrelevant.

I will take that as a No, you would not submit and obey.

 

[BiblicallyCorrect]

Huh? Rule over you? In Dutch it says pastors and watch.

17Obey your pastors and submit (to them), for they are the ones who watch over your souls, and they will be held accountable there. Let them do it with joy, and not with sighs, for that would not profit you.

I will take that as a No, you would not submit and obey.

 

[Messy]

I will take that as a No, you would not submit and obey.

To you? No of course not. I don't even know you. If God said I had to obey someone from christianity haven I'd obey Lamb lol.

 

[BiblicallyCorrect]

To you? No of course not. I don't even know you. If God said I had to obey someone from christianity haven I'd obey Lamb lol.

Do you believe that if a member of the congregation, who
refuses to obey and submit themselves to the authority
of the pastor, that God has placed to rule over them, has the power and authority
from God, to do this to them in return for their disobedience?

1 Corinthians 5:5
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh,
that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

1 Timothy 1:20
Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan,
that they may learn not to blaspheme.

Yes or no?

 

[Messy]

Do you believe that if a member of the congregation, who
refuses to obey and submit themselves to the authority
of the pastor, that God has placed to rule over them, has the power and authority
from God, to do this to them in return for their disobedience?

1 Corinthians 5:5
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh,
that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

1 Timothy 1:20
Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan,
that they may learn not to blaspheme.

Yes or no?

No. Depends. If it's a good pastor, like Paul and he just says that they have to pray or whatever, do what God told him and they refuse, no Paul only delivered that guy who lived in blatant sin over to satan so he would get saved and first he got warned. If a pastor demands that you give him coffee or whatever selfish thing, don't obey. Cesar Castellanos, a pastor with a huge church who was used to being obeyed, said that to his wife. Coffee! Iron my suit! And she refused and he complained to God that she had become rebellious and God said he shouldn't be so domineering. He wrote a book about it.
This translation is really weird. Rules. A pastor is not to rule. Jesus washed the feet of the disciples. He only delivered Judas over to satan. If Jesus didn't even bark around and command, while He could, don't let some ego guy think he's all that and you have to obey him instead of God.

 

[tango]

I will take that as a No, you would not submit and obey.

Epic way to introduce yourself.... ask loaded questions and then start overtly making assumptions.

 

[BiblicallyCorrect]

Well, I'm Admin here and rule over all of you guys....

This seems more like the start of a debate thread which isn't allowed in the Bible Study forum, so I'm moving it to Christian Theology.

Do you have a pastor that rules over you and is accountable for you to the Lord? Yes or no?
If you do not answer with a yes I will assume it is a NO.
If not then why not?

 

[tango]

Do you have a pastor that rules over you and is accountable for you to the Lord? Yes or no?
If you do not answer with a yes I will assume it is a NO.
If not then why not?

Seriously, where do you get off on assuming answers if people don't respond exactly as you think they should? You know nothing about people here and yet act as if you have some kind of authority.

Honestly, as far as I'm concerned you're just another troll passing through.

 

[BiblicallyCorrect]

Seriously, where do you get off on assuming answers if people don't respond exactly as you think they should? You know nothing about people here and yet act as if you have some kind of authority.

Honestly, as far as I'm concerned you're just another troll passing through.

What is the difference between you a sinner, you know, one who disobeys God, and a troll?

 

[Messy]

Do you have a pastor that rules over you and is accountable for you to the Lord? Yes or no?
If you do not answer with a yes I will assume it is a NO.
If not then why not?

Lamb has a pastor. I don't anymore. I did obey when I had one. I was married to one too. I try to find one here, but I have no car and here is nothing. I'm Dutch. Pastors don't get paid, so a lot of churches have no pastor. I went to one church here. There was a wolf. I went to the elder for help. He didnt care. I should forgive the wolf. Okay bye. They had a pastor, but they kicked him out, cause he cheated on his wife and now noone watched the sheep. There is another church. That pastor kicked the wolf out and preached great and even prayed for ppl, so I thought: yay! That's a good pastor. Lets go there and yes one fabulous preaching and he prayed for me and that was that. Next week mrs whoever babbled about mothers day. Next week whoever talked about sex. I don't get my kids out of bed early on Sunday for this kind of nonsense. Dutch are stingy. Do it for free. That irritates pastors and they quit or they just have a normal job and preach once in a blue moon. Only a few big churches have a good pastor, but they're on the other side of the country. Luckily I found a preaching drummer on Facebook. He is no pastor, but he leads ppl, shows how to evangelize and how to pray for souls. In 2 years he lead 2000 ppl to the Lord on the street with a small group of ppl he disciples. I gladly listen to him. He has good fruit. He doesn't say obey me. He does say come on, pray for the lost, share the gospel, let me help you.