What NOT to Do in Church

[Josiah]

Perhaps, although I don't think I've ever questioned the point that an individual should be free to wear whatever s/he wants. Some people are more comfortable in a three-piece suit, others are more comfortable in baggy shorts and a T-shirt.

Well, friend, I think that respect is two-way. Yes, people should respect me - but I should respect them also. It's not all about what I find "comfortable and decent" - while considering it entirely, wholly irrelevant whether such is appropriate or offensive or rude to the community. IMO, it's not entirely ME..... we are in community and the community matters.

Sure, rules sometimes need to be put in place for the people who genuinely don't realize that showing up in clothes so badly torn they might as well be naked is inappropriate.

Again, friend, this thread isn't about what churches should NOT do, its' about what an individual who has chosen to go there should NOT do.

IMO, you've surrendered the point that we should not wear what is "inappropriate." Then, IMO, that means an individual choosing to attend a worship service in a church SHOULD take responsibility to dress appropriately. That is the entirely of my point. It's not only a case of what the individual - in the sole opinion of self - feels is comfortable or what meets the min. legal requirements for covering in that state/nation. I think the individual needs to consider what is appropriate in that community and situation. The Bible has much to say about not giving offense.

As you say we don't need rules for people who can show a little respect, and there's a world of difference between expecting someone to "cover their bits" (for want of a better phrase) and expecting someone to wear a specific type of outfit (e.g. a button down shirt, or a tie, or whatever else). In the context of a party we host, or a private venue, or a place of employment, it's perfectly reasonable for a very specific standard. If a nightclub requires patrons to wear a collar and tie the choice is simple - comply with the code or go somewhere else. If you don't want to comply with the code you aren't allowed in and if for some reason you are unable to comply with the code it's not their responsibility to make it happen for you (although as a matter of business practice they may be willing to rent you a tie).

I agree. And of course, part of this is simply respect. As in the case of accepting a dinner invitation in a home where it's considered appropriate to remove your shoes.

When we're talking about God's house and fulfilling our mission to reach out to the lost

Again, this thread is not about what CHURCHES should NOT do, it's about what an individual should not do when choosing to attend a certain church. We can debate if churches should or should not allow people to come in their PJ's - but that's another issue for another thread. I don't know of any churches that mandate designer clothes (but there are churches that mandate women wear a head covering).

Of course we'd expect her to cover up rather than simply sitting in the pews dressed to sell herself

Interesting point, but again, the issue is not what churches should NOT do but what individuals choosing to attend a church should NOT do. And yes, I think the discussion was meant to be a general one - there can be a rare exception to anything, I suppose.

But friend, you seem to be underlining my point: Yes, there is a responsibility on the part of the attendee AS WELL AS on the part of the community, respect works TWO WAYS. You seem to suggest this "lady of the evening" should not be rude and offensive and disrespectful. You are making my point.

When I attend a Catholic Church, I don't participate in the Eucharist. I go forward, arms crossed, for a blessing. Is this what I want? No, but I know the polity there, what they regard as appropriate, and I have no desire to be rude, to offend, to make a big point of doing what is inappropriate. Now, you or I could start a thread as to whether the Catholic Church should or should not have such an expectation but that's not the issue here.

With any church tradition, with any church practice, I think we need to ask the question of whether it promotes unity within the body or merely creates arbitrary divisions.

Valid.... although again, friend, the issue before us is not what communities should not do but what individuals should not do as they freely choose to associate with that community. IMO, if you are invited to be the best man at your friends wedding..... and you accept..... you should respect the wedding and the couple and the ceremony you have chosen to accept to attend (no legal mandate that you do). IMO, you should NOT regard yourself entirely void of any responsibility and entirely regard respect for others to be irrelevant from you to others but entirely demanded from others to you. IMO, the best man should not show up in jean cut offs, a tank top with "Bud Lite" on it, and floppies - because HE regards that as "decent" and because HE insists that all respect him but he needs to respect nothing and no one. I'm going to keep coming back to that, LOL. I think it is wrong to give offense, to be rude. In general. Again, there are always rare exceptions.

I agree that churches should not mandate that attendees wear $5,000 designer clothes (and that such would hinder the mission Christ gave to them) but that's not the issue here, is it? The issue is - in a general sense - should an individual (who freely chooses to attend a certain church) dress appropriately and in a way that won't be offensive to that community? I think - generally - yes. That's my point, that's what I posted. Do you disagree?



Thank you.


- Josiah



.

 

[MennoSota]

Ephesians says:
"Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth. But, only such a word as is good for edification, according to the need of the moment, that it might give grace to those that hear."
It seems to me that we can apply our dress and behavior to this as well when we enter a place of worship. There are cultural practices that we can respect in order to keep the peace. They may not be our preferred practices for us, but they are preferred in that culture group. It is good for us to extend grace in those situations.

 

[~Jo~]

No idea any more since I don't go to church anymore, don't get me wrong I love churches, just not the people in them now..

 

[MennoSota]

No idea any more since I don't go to church anymore, don't get me wrong I love churches, just not the people in them now..

You must hate all humans because that's who shows up at church as well as the bar, the football game and any other event you choose to attend. This world is full of rebels like you and me. You focus on the rebels rather than the redeemer and it will disappoint you all the time.

 

[Imalive]

Well, friend, I think that respect is two-way. Yes, people should respect me - but I should respect them also. It's not all about what I find "comfortable and decent" - while considering it entirely, wholly irrelevant whether such is appropriate or offensive or rude to the community. IMO, it's not entirely ME..... we are in community and the community matters.






Again, friend, this thread isn't about what churches should NOT do, its' about what an individual who has chosen to go there should NOT do.

IMO, you've surrendered the point that we should not wear what is "inappropriate." Then, IMO, that means an individual choosing to attend a worship service in a church SHOULD take responsibility to dress appropriately. That is the entirely of my point. It's not only a case of what the individual - in the sole opinion of self - feels is comfortable or what meets the min. legal requirements for covering in that state/nation. I think the individual needs to consider what is appropriate in that community and situation. The Bible has much to say about not giving offense.





I agree. And of course, part of this is simply respect. As in the case of accepting a dinner invitation in a home where it's considered appropriate to remove your shoes.







Again, this thread is not about what CHURCHES should NOT do, it's about what an individual should not do when choosing to attend a certain church. We can debate if churches should or should not allow people to come in their PJ's - but that's another issue for another thread. I don't know of any churches that mandate designer clothes (but there are churches that mandate women wear a head covering).






Interesting point, but again, the issue is not what churches should NOT do but what individuals choosing to attend a church should NOT do. And yes, I think the discussion was meant to be a general one - there can be a rare exception to anything, I suppose.

But friend, you seem to be underlining my point: Yes, there is a responsibility on the part of the attendee AS WELL AS on the part of the community, respect works TWO WAYS. You seem to suggest this "lady of the evening" should not be rude and offensive and disrespectful. You are making my point.

When I attend a Catholic Church, I don't participate in the Eucharist. I go forward, arms crossed, for a blessing. Is this what I want? No, but I know the polity there, what they regard as appropriate, and I have no desire to be rude, to offend, to make a big point of doing what is inappropriate. Now, you or I could start a thread as to whether the Catholic Church should or should not have such an expectation but that's not the issue here.







Valid.... although again, friend, the issue before us is not what communities should not do but what individuals should not do as they freely choose to associate with that community. IMO, if you are invited to be the best man at your friends wedding..... and you accept..... you should respect the wedding and the couple and the ceremony you have chosen to accept to attend (no legal mandate that you do). IMO, you should NOT regard yourself entirely void of any responsibility and entirely regard respect for others to be irrelevant from you to others but entirely demanded from others to you. IMO, the best man should not show up in jean cut offs, a tank top with "Bud Lite" on it, and floppies - because HE regards that as "decent" and because HE insists that all respect him but he needs to respect nothing and no one. I'm going to keep coming back to that, LOL. I think it is wrong to give offense, to be rude. In general. Again, there are always rare exceptions.

I agree that churches should not mandate that attendees wear $5,000 designer clothes (and that such would hinder the mission Christ gave to them) but that's not the issue here, is it? The issue is - in a general sense - should an individual (who freely chooses to attend a certain church) dress appropriately and in a way that won't be offensive to that community? I think - generally - yes. That's my point, that's what I posted. Do you disagree?



Thank you.


- Josiah



.

Nice clothes cost a few bucks. Not 5000 but some ppl cant even pay 50 for some new stuff, so those will never visit then or feel uncomfortable and leave.

 

[psalms 91]

If church were for perfeect people there would be noone there, have to keep in mind that God is continually doing a work in all of us and there will be many things you may not like as in any aspect of life. Wish it were not so but till tjhe chruch can get people out of the world and into Christ it will always be that way

 

[Josiah]

Nice clothes cost a few bucks. Not 5000 but some ppl cant even pay 50 for some new stuff, so those will never visit then or feel uncomfortable and leave.

I spoke in generic, general terms..... IMO, probably MOST middle aged men in the USA can afford long pants and a collared shirt and maybe at least some shoes rather than rubber floppy sandals. Yes, OF COURSE, if one's ONLY OPTION is dirty jeans cut offs, a tank top with "SMOKE POT" on it and rubber floppies - then I wholly agree, that's what they should wear (being that they have no legal option)! Absolutely! But I don't think that's USUALLY the case. My suspicion is that MOST middle aged men in America already own at least one pair of long pants and a collared shirt that at least sorta goes with that and maybe regular shoes (not necessarily dress shoes, however). If truly all they own is their PJ's, then... sure.....

Again, friend, this thread isn't about what churches should or should not do, it's about what one individual PERSON going to a church should or should not do - in a general sense (ALWAYS going to be exceptions, obviously.... but they are exceptions because they are not the norm).

The title (and issue) is what should (generally speaking) an individual not do in church, not what a church should (generally speaking) not do. See the difference?



Thank you!


- Josiah



.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Just get two rainbow flags, sew them together and wear them as a kind of toga or poncho

 

[Imalive]

I spoke in generic, general terms..... IMO, probably MOST middle ages men in the USA can afford long pants and a collared shirt and maybe at least some shoes rather than rubber floppy sandals. Yes, OF COURSE, if one's ONLY OPTION is dirty jeans cut offs, a tank top with "BUD LITE" on it and rubber floppies - then I agree, that's what they should wear (being that they have no legal option). But I don't think that's USUALLY the case. My suspicion is that MOST middle aged men in America at least own one pair of long pants and a collared shirt that at least sorta goes with that and maybe regular shoes (not necessarily dress shoes, however).

Again, friend, this thread isn't about what churches should or should not do, it's about what one individual PERSON going to a church should or should not do - in a general sense (ALWAYS going to be exceptions, obviously.... but they are exceptions because they are not the norm).

Lol well w the clothes I have now I would never visit an American church like I've visited years ago. Suits, nice dresses, pffff, costs a fortune only to please some ppl. Much better things I can do w that even if I won the lottery.

 

[Imalive]

Just get two rainbow flags, sew them together and wear them as a kind of toga or poncho

:=D:
It is colorful.

 

[Josiah]

Lol well w the clothes I have now I would never visit an American church like I've visited years ago. Suits, nice dresses, pffff, costs a fortune only to please some ppl. Much better things I can do w that even if I won the lottery.

Well.... perhaps if the church you are considering visiting suggests that you go out a buy a new dress, costing at least $200.00 (bring receipt, lol), at least you know that. And you can visit a different church. I suspect you'll find that 99.99999999999999999% of churches won't do that. Not knowing anything about your closet, I'm guessing you already own SEVERAL options that would be perfectly appropriate for the vast, vast majority of churches without having to buy anything (much less at a min. of $200.00). I'm simply saying don't use your liberty to offend. The Bible has much to say about giving offense. It's not ALL about the individual doing WHATEVER he/she wants, a church is a community and there's a role for mutual love and respect. If you agree that one should not visit a church in the nude just because the individual likes being nude then I think you are seeing my point.

 

[Confessional Lutheran]

Don't go to church if you feel like death warmed over. Especially don't go to your own church that way.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I suppose singing "cows with guns" would not be appropriate as a hymn in church?

:smirk:

 

[Imalive]

Well.... perhaps if the church you are considering visiting suggests that you go out a buy a new dress, costing at least $200.00 (bring receipt, lol), at least you know that. You'll find that 99.99999999999999999% of churches won't do that. Not knowing anything about your closet, I'm guessing you already own SEVERAL options that would be perfectly appropriate for the vast, vast majority of churches. I'm simply saying don't use your liberty to offend. The Bible has much to say about giving offense. If you agree that one should not visit a church in the nude just because the individual likes being nude then I think you are seeing my point.

No seriously, I had that stuff, I always looked perfect to please my ex in church, but I threw it all away after the divorce. Maybe I have one of those pants left somewhere wrinkled between old filth in a closet I never clean up.
Ppl shouldnt get offended if someone shows up in denim.