What is the time of Jacob’s trouble?

[hobie]

The "time of Jacob's trouble" comes from Jeremiah 30:7...
Jeremiah 30:7 King James Version (KJV)
Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.

In previous verses, God promised He would someday restore His people to their land....
Jeremiah 30:1-6 King James Version (KJV)
1 The word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying,
2 Thus speaketh the Lord God of Israel, saying, Write thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee in a book.
3 For, lo, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the Lord: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.
4 And these are the words that the Lord spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah.
5 For thus saith the Lord; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace.
6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?

Despite a great time of distress the Lord would save them from it...
Jeremiah 30:8-11 King James Version (KJV)
8 For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him:
9 But they shall serve the Lord their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.
10 Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the Lord; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid.
11 For I am with thee, saith the Lord, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet I will not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.

The imagery in the Jeremiah passage most closely resembles the predictions given by Jesus in Matthew 24....

Matthew 24:3-22 King James Version (KJV)
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

We see it in other verses...

Luke 21:22-27 King James Version (KJV)
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

1 Thessalonians 5:3 King James Version (KJV)
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

 

[hobie]

I think we are seeing signs of it...
"The Dow had its worst point drop ever as stocks tumbled again"
The Dow had its worst point drop ever as stocks tumbled again - CNN
"Dow Plummets Nearly 3,000 Points As Virus Fears Spread
U.S. stocks drop sharply, while bond yields plummet again, despite Fed stimulus efforts"
Dow Plummets Nearly 3,000 Points As Virus Fears Spread
"Dow plunges nearly 3,000 points as Fed intervention does little to subdue Wall Street’s distress"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/03/16/stocks-markets-today-coronavirus/

 

[hobie]

This is not good...
"Live updates: Coronavirus cases confirmed in all U.S. states as death toll rises and world faces long-term turmoil
All 50 states and the District of Columbia have confirmed cases of the coronavirus, after West Virginia announced its first patient Tuesday. More than 110 people infected with the virus have died in the United States, a toll that experts expect to rise quickly."...

China reports zero new local coronavirus infections; Trump signs bill to ensure paid leave, other financial benefits

 

[psalms 91]

Made worse by the panic and hoarding

 

[hobie]

Made worse by the panic and hoarding

That is the most startling thing.. A friend of ours went out looking for necessities and after almost 3 days found some and had somebody come up to him in the store and pull a knife to try and steal it from him.

 

[atpollard]

This is not good...
"Live updates: Coronavirus cases confirmed in all U.S. states as death toll rises and world faces long-term turmoil
All 50 states and the District of Columbia have confirmed cases of the coronavirus, after West Virginia announced its first patient Tuesday. More than 110 people infected with the virus have died in the United States, a toll that experts expect to rise quickly."...

China reports zero new local coronavirus infections; Trump signs bill to ensure paid leave, other financial benefits

This is yellow journalism at its worst.
For example, there is exactly 1 case in West-Central Florida ... a man who was exposed and became sick while visiting Egypt and returned home to be hospitalized in Florida. In comparison we just had THREE reported cases that turned out to NOT be COVID-19.

That still does not stop the news from reporting 4 cases of COVID-19 on the local news and making it sound like it is running rampant through the general population. Fear mongering to sell advertisement slots and boost ratings. What ever happened to a press that actually reports NEWS and FACTS rather than prompting people to hoard toilet paper, hand sanitizer and surgical masks so they can survive a “Zombie Apocalypse”?

 

[hobie]

This is yellow journalism at its worst.
For example, there is exactly 1 case in West-Central Florida ... a man who was exposed and became sick while visiting Egypt and returned home to be hospitalized in Florida. In comparison we just had THREE reported cases that turned out to NOT be COVID-19.

That still does not stop the news from reporting 4 cases of COVID-19 on the local news and making it sound like it is running rampant through the general population. Fear mongering to sell advertisement slots and boost ratings. What ever happened to a press that actually reports NEWS and FACTS rather than prompting people to hoard toilet paper, hand sanitizer and surgical masks so they can survive a “Zombie Apocalypse”?

They seem to be purposely pushing a narrative to spread fear and panic, almost with one would say a agenda.

 

[hobie]

This gives understanding of why ...

Romans 1:18-32 King James Version (KJV)
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Here is a good article on this...

"What Is the Tribulation?
As we discuss the great tribulation to take place just before Jesus returns, keep in mind that there have been several other "times of trouble" for God's people in the past.

For example, the children of Israel endured 400 years of tribulation just before the Exodus (Acts 7:6). The early Christians also passed through a time of trouble immediately after the stoning of Stephen (Acts 8:1). From A.D. 303-313, during the era represented by the Smyrna church (Revelation 2:10), God's people suffered a 10-year period of tribulation. But perhaps the most notable time of trouble was the 1,260 years of intense persecution waged against true Christians during the Dark Ages. "And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and threescore days." "And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman." Revelation 12:6, 13.

As dark as each of these times were for God's people, none can compare with the final, great tribulation that is yet to take place. The great tribulation corresponds with the time during which the seven last plagues of Revelation chapter 16 will fall. "And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God." Revelation 15:1.

God's wrath will be directed against the ones who disobey His law, distort His truth, and oppress His people. "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness." Romans 1:18.

The great tribulation also coincides with the Battle of Armageddon. Both take place immediately before Christ's second coming. "And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done."

It is my belief that the great time of trouble will last only a month or two. Here are a few Scriptures that show it will be a short period of time.

Revelation 18:8 tells us, "Therefore shall her plagues come in one day." A "day" in Bible prophecy represents one literal year (Ezekiel 4:6, Numbers 14:34, Luke 13:32). So when Revelation says that "her plagues come in one day," it means within, or less than, one year's time. The very nature of the seven last plagues-the rivers and seas turning to blood and the planet being scorched with great heat-would render it impossible for the human race to survive more than a month or two. This is why Jesus said, "And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened." Matthew 24:22, NKJV....

Through The Tribulation | Inside Report | Amazing Facts

The Great Basin bristlecone pine can live more than 4,000 years and is believed to be one of the oldest living trees on the planet. Found on lonely mountain tops, some of these ancient evergreens have weathered thousands of years of intense freezing wind, pounding rain, scorching sun, and...

www.amazingfacts.org

 

[NewCreation435]

I don't see the coronavirus mentioned or alluded to in the Bible. The death and destruction mentioned in Revelations makes the coronavirus look like a common cold

 

[hobie]

I don't see the coronavirus mentioned or alluded to in the Bible. The death and destruction mentioned in Revelations makes the coronavirus look like a common cold

Then you have to ask yourself, why are people so afraid and countries shutting down and commerce and trade grounding to a halt over a 'common cold'.

 

[hobie]

Here is what comes to mind from scripture...
2 Samuel 24:12-17 King James Version (KJV)
12 Go and say unto David, Thus saith the Lord, I offer thee three things; choose thee one of them, that I may do it unto thee.
13 So Gad came to David, and told him, and said unto him, Shall seven years of famine come unto thee in thy land? or wilt thou flee three months before thine enemies, while they pursue thee? or that there be three days' pestilence in thy land? now advise, and see what answer I shall return to him that sent me.
14 And David said unto Gad, I am in a great strait: let us fall now into the hand of the Lord; for his mercies are great: and let me not fall into the hand of man.
15 So the Lord sent a pestilence upon Israel from the morning even to the time appointed: and there died of the people from Dan even to Beersheba seventy thousand men.
16 And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the Lord repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the Lord was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite.
17 And David spake unto the Lord when he saw the angel that smote the people, and said, Lo, I have sinned, and I have done wickedly: but these sheep, what have they done? let thine hand, I pray thee, be against me, and against my father's house.

 

[NewCreation435]

Then you have to ask yourself, why are people so afraid and countries shutting down and commerce and trade grounding to a halt over a 'common cold'.

Because there isn't a vaccine yet, so the only way to protect yourself is social distancing until a vaccine is found. Part of the fear also is the media which is constantly talking about it and instilling fear

 

[hobie]

Because there isn't a vaccine yet, so the only way to protect yourself is social distancing until a vaccine is found. Part of the fear also is the media which is constantly talking about it and instilling fear

But why would 'Christians' react with 'fear' when they knew this would happen, and the end of it is Christ's Second Coming...

 

[hobie]

This seems to have reached worldwide...
"Coronavirus: the week the world shut down
It should not have come as a surprise. Life had already been upended in China. Iran and Italy have been reeling for a month. And yet it still felt sudden, this week, when walls were raised across the world, entire societies were quarantined and billions of people realised they had crossed a dividing line: from life before coronavirus to after.

After weeks of governments prevaricating over whether to ban mass gatherings, close businesses or seal borders, restrictions came in a flurry. “We are at war,” announced the French president, Emmanuel Macron. But without adequate weapons to fight the virus, let alone enough hospital beds or ventilators, this was the week the world beat a tactical retreat.

Spain’s 46 million citizens were in lockdown by Sunday morning. Its death toll would double by the end of the day to 288. People had partied in Dublin’s Temple Bar on Saturday night. It was a last hurrah: the neighbourhood’s water holes were indefinitely closed the following day.

The same day, Germany closed its borders to France, Switzerland and Austria, whose chancellor, Sebastian Kurz, warned the country the next weeks would be “challenging, difficult and painful”. More than 1,400 people had died in Italy.

In Mafraq, a small city in Jordan, a Syrian girl, Reem Ahmed, missed school for the first time since September. Though aged 11, the past six months were the only time she had ever spent in a classroom, part of a humanitarian programme to steer refugee children out of work and into education. But classes across Jordan had been suspended to prevent the spread of the coronavirus.

"Coronavirus: the week the world shut down

 

[NewCreation435]

But why would 'Christians' react with 'fear' when they knew this would happen, and the end of it is Christ's Second Coming...

Because many people who call themselves Christians probably aren't or they are very spiritually immature

 

[hobie]

Because many people who call themselves Christians probably aren't or they are very spiritually immature

Well, they will have to mature quickly as things are happening fast.

 

[atpollard]

Why all the panic over Covid-19?

Here are some real world numbers from the United States that are probably reasonably accurate as a percentage for other developed nations. (I just happen to have data on the US where I live).

The typical flue season kills about 30,000 people in the US each year.
Among a generally healthy population, COVID-19 appears to have about 3x the mortality rate of the common flu.
That suggests 90,000 people in the US could die from COVID-19.

The mortality rate for COVID-19 among healthy people is about 3 deaths per 1000 cases, however the mortality rate among the elderly is closer to 300 deaths per 1000 cases. So COVID-19 will strike a certain segment of the population disproportionately hard. Are you really prepared to almost be guaranteed to bury 1/3 of all the people that you know over retirement age this year?

Different virus attack different systems. Unfortunately, the serious cases of COVID-19 attack the lungs in a way that requires a respirator to survive. The combination of 3x as many serious cases as a normal flu and the need for a ventilator (which exist in finite numbers) to treat the serious cases, creates a potential for a crisis where a hospital will be forced to decide which of several patients gets the respirator and a chance to survive and which patients make due without and likely die (who might have been saved). This shortage of specific medical equipment could drive that 3 per 1000 death figure up higher ... theoretically as high as 10 per 1000 which would would equate to 300,000 deaths under a complete collapse of the US Heath system. This figure is just a hypothetical “worst case” number, but even a realistic doubling of 90,000 unavoidable deaths to 180,000 unavoidable and shortage induced deaths is a staggering increase from a typical year baseline of only 30,000 deaths.

So the question becomes, how much effort is enough to avoid the “shortage induced“ deaths as we get through what is a REALLY BAD “flu season”.

 

[hobie]

Why all the panic over Covid-19?

Here are some real world numbers from the United States that are probably reasonably accurate as a percentage for other developed nations. (I just happen to have data on the US where I live).

The typical flue season kills about 30,000 people in the US each year.
Among a generally healthy population, COVID-19 appears to have about 3x the mortality rate of the common flu.
That suggests 90,000 people in the US could die from COVID-19.

The mortality rate for COVID-19 among healthy people is about 3 deaths per 1000 cases, however the mortality rate among the elderly is closer to 300 deaths per 1000 cases. So COVID-19 will strike a certain segment of the population disproportionately hard. Are you really prepared to almost be guaranteed to bury 1/3 of all the people that you know over retirement age this year?

Different virus attack different systems. Unfortunately, the serious cases of COVID-19 attack the lungs in a way that requires a respirator to survive. The combination of 3x as many serious cases as a normal flu and the need for a ventilator (which exist in finite numbers) to treat the serious cases, creates a potential for a crisis where a hospital will be forced to decide which of several patients gets the respirator and a chance to survive and which patients make due without and likely die (who might have been saved). This shortage of specific medical equipment could drive that 3 per 1000 death figure up higher ... theoretically as high as 10 per 1000 which would would equate to 300,000 deaths under a complete collapse of the US Heath system. This figure is just a hypothetical “worst case” number, but even a realistic doubling of 90,000 unavoidable deaths to 180,000 unavoidable and shortage induced deaths is a staggering increase from a typical year baseline of only 30,000 deaths.

So the question becomes, how much effort is enough to avoid the “shortage induced“ deaths as we get through what is a REALLY BAD “flu season”.

Well, you can see how this can collapse the world economy, even the Russians as they depend heavily on their oil sales, to say nothing of China or Europe...

 

[atpollard]

Well, you can see how this can collapse the world economy, even the Russians as they depend heavily on their oil sales, to say nothing of China or Europe...

Just for a little perspective, the Spanish Influenza epidemic (in today’s population terms) would kill about 90 million Americans compared to a COVID-19 “doomsday” scenario of killing up to 300 thousand Americans. The world has survived epidemics 300 times worse than COVID-19.

I think this offers an example of HOW a pandemic could cripple the world economy, but this is not “THE BIG ONE”.

 

[hobie]

Just for a little perspective, the Spanish Influenza epidemic (in today’s population terms) would kill about 90 million Americans compared to a COVID-19 “doomsday” scenario of killing up to 300 thousand Americans. The world has survived epidemics 300 times worse than COVID-19.

I think this offers an example of HOW a pandemic could cripple the world economy, but this is not “THE BIG ONE”.

Very true, but never in the history of the world has the economic life been shut down so quickly and thoroughly by a 'flu'. Think about it...