What Is Sin?

[Imalive]

Sin is not obeying God.

 

[JRT]

In any discussion of moral standards I think that it might be helpful to discuss the difference between sin and evil. But before attempting that, let us examine a similar situation in the secular realm. Governments at every level pass legislation that prohibits certain actions. We use the word 'crime' to refer to the deliberate breaking of such a law. However, is the commission of a crime the same thing as committing an evil act? Here we come up against just how we might define evil. For the purposes of this discussion let me give a very simple definition:

Evil --- any deliberate action or inaction which compromises the physical or psychological integrity of a human being.

This, of course, is a narrow definition and we could likely spend a very long time extending it and refining it. Let us leave that at least for the moment. The point that I am sneaking up on here is that 'what is evil is not necessarily a crime' and conversely 'what is a crime is not necessarily evil'. To me this is obvious but let me just attempt an illustration of each statement.

First, 'what is evil is not necessarily a crime'. By my definition above, the killing of another human being is to be regarded as an evil act. However, the law does not regard this as a crime if it is done in self defence or in war.

Second, 'what is a crime is not necessarily evil'. In Singapore, for example, it is a crime to chew gum. I think most would not quibble about this not being evil according to the above definition.

Can we make similar distinctions in the spiritual realm concerning sin and evil? I believe that we can. First, we need a working definition of sin. Let me suggest a very simple definition:

Sin --- doing that which is forbidden by a spiritual authority.

Once again, we could debate this definition. Perhaps the most controversial aspect of this definition might involve whether or not a spiritual authority, such as a church or a scripture, can actually express the will of a Deity. Setting that aside, we once again are faced with two problems. The point being that 'what is evil is not necessarily a sin' and conversely 'what is a sin is not necessarily evil'.

First, 'what is evil is not necessarily a sin'. I think that most would agree that to torture someone is an evil. However, if we just look at Christian scripture, I do not see any specific prohibition that would make torture a sin. A similar argument could be applied to female genital mutilation (circumcision).

Second, 'what is a sin is not necessarily evil'. Here, we can get into a very much more controversial debates. It is certainly true that Christian scripture regards homosexual actions as sinful. However, within society at large and within a number of Christian churches in particular, homosexual behaviour is no longer regarded as an evil in and of itself. It is also certainly true that Jewish scripture regards the breaking of the dietary laws as sinful and even an abomination. However, within society at large and within a number of Jewish traditions in particular, the breaking of the dietary laws is no longer regarded as an evil in and of itself.

The distinctions made here between crime and evil and also between sin and evil lead us in a real quandry for society at large. The western world has become, and is increasingly becoming, extremely diverse in language, culture and religion. There is also no real way of reversing this. Since different religions cannot agree on what is sin, I do not think that we can rely on religion entirely to inform our moral and ethical behaviour. Since what is regarded as sin has so often in the past led us into framing our laws to determine what is criminal, I think we need a new approach to the problem. We need an approach that avoids the imposition of one set of religious beliefs on society at large --- an approach broadly constructed on a concensus of what is evil and therefore what is criminal. Leave what is regarded as sin to the consciences of those in particular religious traditions.

 

[Josiah]

Sin is not obeying God.

Yes. And obeying God is being morally PERFECT (as much as God is) in our thinking/attitudes, speaking and doing (both in terms of what we DON"T think/speak/do and what we DO), being holy just as God is, being loving just as Christ is. To the core of our being.

Thus, "for ALL have sin and fall short." "If one claims he has no sin, he is a liar."


- Josiah

 

[Imalive]

Yes. And obeying God is being morally PERFECT (as much as God is) in our thinking/attitudes, speaking and doing (both in terms of what we DON"T think/speak/do and what we DO), being holy just as God is, being loving just as Christ is. To the core of our being.

Thus, "for ALL have sin and fall short." "If one claims he has no sin, he is a liar."


- Josiah

If one claims he has not sinned. Ppl can attain it. Paul hadnt attained it yet. I think Enoch had. If someone attains that they get raptured.

 

[Lamb]

Yes. And obeying God is being morally PERFECT (as much as God is) in our thinking/attitudes, speaking and doing (both in terms of what we DON"T think/speak/do and what we DO), being holy just as God is, being loving just as Christ is. To the core of our being.

Thus, "for ALL have sin and fall short." "If one claims he has no sin, he is a liar."


- Josiah

I've come across a few hopeful liars who had logs in their eyes concerning their sin.

 

[Imalive]

I've come across a few hopeful liars who had logs in their eyes concerning their sin.

Lol Corrie ten Boom once met a man who never sinned and had never sinned. She said: Oh you must be very proud of that! Yes certainly, he said. Then I have found one sin, she said lol.

 

[MennoSota]

JRT, you seem to have created a subjective, relativistic definition of evil. I don't think God's definition is your definition.
Evil is rebellion against God. No human can follow God unless that person dies with Christ and is raised up with Christ. Thus all unregenerate humans are evil/corrupt. Are we as corrupt as we could be? No. But we are corrupt.
Sin is any action that goes against the will of God. God tells Christians that if they confess their sins God will forgive their sins. This is not true for non-Christians because non-Christians are not regenerated. They are evil and unforgiven.

 

[Imalive]

JRT, you seem to have created a subjective, relativistic definition of evil. I don't think God's definition is your definition.
Evil is rebellion against God. No human can follow God unless that person dies with Christ and is raised up with Christ. Thus all unregenerate humans are evil/corrupt. Are we as corrupt as we could be? No. But we are corrupt.
Sin is any action that goes against the will of God. God tells Christians that if they confess their sins God will forgive their sins. This is not true for non-Christians because non-Christians are not regenerated. They are evil and unforgiven.

Huh? If a non christian does that he becomes a christian.

 

[MennoSota]

Huh? If a non christian does that he becomes a christian.

No. If a non Christian confesses sins, she does not become a Christian and does not have her sins forgiven. All she does is say she's sorry. No sane judge will listen to a criminal say she's sorry and then let her go her way unpunished.
God chooses whom he will regenerate and whom he will not regenerate. God determines who will be a Christian. Humans do not have that power to decide. This is the entire purpose of Paul's dialogue in Romans 9.
God chooses.

 

[Imalive]

No. If a non Christian confesses sins, she does not become a Christian and does not have her sins forgiven. All she does is say she's sorry. No sane judge will listen to a criminal say she's sorry and then let her go her way unpunished.
God chooses whom he will regenerate and whom he will not regenerate. God determines who will be a Christian. Humans do not have that power to decide. This is the entire purpose of Paul's dialogue in Romans 9.
God chooses.

Ppl in John 6 couldnt come to Him because it was not given to them from the Father. Those don't confess their sins either and don't repent. They don't even go to Him.

All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

 

[Josiah]

Kind of off topic but....

"Repent" does not equal "I'm sorry." Even your dog feels sorry from time to time, lol....

Repent has four parts:
1. Realizing we are violating God's standard, missing God's mark, falling short of God's mark
2. Stopping (yeah, obviously, never absolute!)
3. Turning to God's mercy in view of the Cross
4. Walking in the right direction (yeah, obviously never absolute).

When the Bible calls us to repent, RARELY does it mean simply to feel badly about something (like your dog who peed on the carpet or licked the frosting off the cake).... It's not a psychological thing but a SPIRITUAL thing, and requires spiritual life and faith.

 

[MennoSota]

Ppl in John 6 couldnt come to Him because it was not given to them from the Father. Those don't confess their sins either and don't repent. They don't even go to Him.

All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

Indeed, the Father must choose to give.

 

[user1234]

Repenting is a 180° turn in thinking and believing in Jesus.
Turning from sin, growing in grace, etc., are all things that should follow salvation, but are not pre-requisites to it. Saved...born-again, FIRST. THEN grow in grace and knowledge of Jesus, walk in good works in His name, setting aside the weights and the sin that besets us so we can run the race better, looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.

 

[Josiah]

Repenting is a 180° turn in thinking and believing in Jesus.
Turning from sin, growing in grace, etc., are all things that should follow salvation, but are not pre-requisites to it. Saved...born-again, FIRST. THEN grow in grace and knowledge of Jesus, walk in good works in His name, setting aside the weights and the sin that besets us so we can run the race better, looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.

I agree....

Thus repenting is not a good work we perform as dead, unregenerate, atheists that God rewards with the payment of justification/salvation.

I'm glad to see much agreement on that....



:focus:




.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I agree....

Thus repenting is not a good work we perform as dead, unregenerate, atheists that God rewards with the payment of justification/salvation.

I'm glad to see much agreement on that....

So many dead unregenerate atheists in protestant ranks ... no wonder defining sin is so hard for them

 

[user1234]

I agree....

Thus repenting is not a good work we perform as dead, unregenerate, atheists that God rewards with the payment of justification/salvation.

I'm glad to see much agreement on that....



:focus:




.

(sorry, didnt mean to go off topic, was just going w the flow of the earlier posts.)

Not sure you'll get 'MUCH' agreement, but just getting SOME can be good.
But obviously atheists arent expecting any rewards from God.

When believers repent, post-salvation, it shouldnt be for seeking rewards (not that you dont already know that, I was just concurring w your point.)

So many dead unregenerate atheists in protestant ranks ... no wonder defining sin is so hard for them

Many dead unregenerate atheists in religious ranks of all kinds. So glad to be saved from dead (and deadly) religion, false teaching and practices, whether it be Romancatholic or protestant(?) ranks (not really sure what protestant means these days, I guess it depends who's defining it) , or some of the ungodly nonsense (sins) I used to indulge in before getting saved. (And after, too :crazy: )

 

[MoreCoffee]

...
Many dead unregenerate atheists in religious ranks of all kinds. So glad to be saved from dead (and deadly) religion, false teaching and practices, whether it be Romancatholic or protestant(?) ranks (not really sure what protestant means these days, I guess it depends who's defining it) , or some of the ungodly nonsense (sins) I used to indulge in before getting saved. (And after, too :crazy: )

You had dead and deadly religion?

 

[user1234]

You had dead and deadly religion?

Of course, when Jesus saves us, He saves us from sin and death, and false teaching/practice is a major part of that...dead and deadly religion, along with all kinds of other things on the path of destruction.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Of course, when Jesus saves us, He saves us from sin and death, and false teaching/practice is a major part of that...dead and deadly religion, along with all kinds of other things on the path of destruction.

What was this religion that you had?

 

[atpollard]

from the Heidelberg Catechism:

Q. How do you come to know your misery?
A. The law of God tells me.1
1 Rom. 3:20; 7:7-25


Q. What does God’s law require of us?
A. Christ teaches us this in summary in Matthew 22:37-40:
“‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’1
This is the greatest and first commandment. “And a second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’2
“On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”
1 Deut. 6:5
2 Lev. 19:18


Q. Can you live up to all this perfectly?
A. No.1
I have a natural tendency to hate God and my neighbor.2
1 Rom. 3:9-20, 23; 1 John 1:8, 10
2 Gen. 6:5; Jer. 17:9; Rom. 7:23-24; 8:7; Eph. 2:1-3; Titus 3:3


Q. Did God create people so wicked and perverse?
A. No.
God created them good1 and in his own image,2
that is, in true righteousness and holiness,3
so that they might truly know God their creator,4
love him with all their heart, and live with God in eternal happiness, to praise and glorify him.5
1 Gen. 1:31
2 Gen. 1:26-27
3 Eph. 4:24
4 Col. 3:10
5 Ps. 8


Q. Then where does this corrupt human nature come from?
A. The fall and disobedience of our first parents, Adam and Eve, in Paradise.1
This fall has so poisoned our nature2
that we are all conceived and born in a sinful condition.3
1 Gen. 3
2 Rom. 5:12, 18-19
3 Ps. 51:5


Q. But are we so corrupt that we are totally unable to do any good and inclined toward all evil?
A. Yes,1 unless we are born again by the Spirit of God.2
1 Gen. 6:5; 8:21; Job 14:4; Isa. 53:6
2 John 3:3-5


Q. But doesn’t God do us an injustice by requiring in his law what we are unable to do?
A. No, God created human beings with the ability to keep the law.1
They, however, provoked by the devil,2
in willful disobedience,3
robbed themselves and all their descendants of these gifts.4
1 Gen. 1:31; Eph. 4:24
2 Gen. 3:13; John 8:44
3 Gen. 3:6
4 Rom. 5:12, 18, 19


Q. Does God permit such disobedience and rebellion to go unpunished?
A. Certainly not. God is terribly angry with the sin we are born with as well as the sins we personally commit. As a just judge, God will punish them both now and in eternity,1
having declared: “Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey all the things written in the book of the law.”2
1 Ex. 34:7; Ps. 5:4-6; Nah. 1:2; Rom. 1:18; Eph. 5:6; Heb. 9:27
2 Gal. 3:10; Deut. 27:26


Q. But isn’t God also merciful?
A. God is certainly merciful,1
but also just.2
God’s justice demands that sin, committed against his supreme majesty, be punished with the supreme penalty— eternal punishment of body and soul.3
1 Ex. 34:6-7; Ps. 103:8-9
2 Ex. 34:7; Deut. 7:9-11; Ps. 5:4-6; Heb. 10:30-31
3 Matt. 25:35-46