In fairness to the text of my original quote, and the fact that I have and do occasionally pray for members of this site (although it may not always be evident through the "pray" button - which I don't think I've used (or will use)), and in general -
The title of this thread "what good is prayer?" is not really what I was aiming for as a suitable summary for the points I raised. I do pray, and I find it helpful.
What I can gather so far is that no one (forgive if I missed it) is really answering the first question in my quote:
"May I ask (and in spirit of those kinds of prayers that ask for instant healing, assurances of things that may not be true etc) - what kind of witness Christians hope to share when and if those prayers are not answered to their liking?"
The reason I phrased the question this way is because prayers for certain things (like healings) fall remarkably short of Yeshua's healings in the bible - and His disciples healings in the bible. Do not use the excuse that they were "more special" -because according to His own teachings - real followers of Him get results.
Some people answer that God simply has determined it's time for some to "come home" with regards to terminal illness (especially if they are at earlier stages in life), or say that the answer to prayers of healing for them is simply "no".
Anyone who has watched a loved one suffer through cancer or other terminal illness (and more acutely - watched them suffer even more with the so called "treatments" that they receive from the medical establishment) - cannot tell me that they honestly all believe in a loving Creator who has deemed millions of people suffer the lot of Job - and for no reason at all except as some sort of test of devotion - or to "bring them home quicker" - because it's getting lonely in Heaven? Who knows.
To me this is neither consistent with the character of a loving God nor is it consistent with the Faith of Yeshua, nor of the apostles who never failed to deliver in the healing area - except in cases of Yeshua and certain unbelieving towns (whole groups of people, apparently) where it's not even said He tried but just that He couldn't as there was so little faith in them.
I've long thought modern lack of healings in Christianity had to do with non-Sabbath observance - because if you look - nearly all the healings of Christ were done on Sabbath - and in Acts with the disciples this is also so. If there is preaching in the synagogues where the Jews are, or the disciples are on their way - it's the Sabbath - as there is no other day for them to be gathered in a Synagogue or the Temple - unless it is a Jewish holy day (also Sabbaths).
I still think this is part of it. Most people (Except Adventists and others who think they are keeping the correct day in good conscience) wearing the Christian mantel are also rebels with regard to this particular day. Active and antagonistic rebels, some of them - some who would even claim Yeshua as their example - by believing the Jews accusations that he was actually breaking the command! If so - their "savior" is not a sinless one
- and is hence a type of false Christ.
But there is something more.
Many of the diseases that plague western society in particular (and through the influence of companies worldwide - now plague other nations) come down to what we consume. This is now an established fact.
The original diet given to man was completely herbivorous. Plants, trees, their fruit and their seed. What does this tell us? According to the original plan of God we weren't designed to eat animals at all. However - there was a great great rebellion before the flood and man had become exceedingly evil - so bad that God deemed it necessary to wipe all humans off the earth save Noah and his family. It is after this period that God says "ok - you can now eat animals - but here are the rules".
Man's physical design did not change between pre-flood and post flood. We were created as herbivores according to the bible - and nothing physiologically changed after the flood. The human body can consume, digest and get nutrients from meat - but only in a way that no other animal - carnivore or omnivore does - we have to cook it so we don't get sick. All of our physical characteristics class us as herbivores - from intestine length to teeth to how we move our jaw to lack of claws for tearing our prey.
The frustration of my post and some of the things I mentioned directly reflect these things. As humans - we are meant to consume whole foods - plant based foods. And of the plant based foods - we are certainly not meant to greatly separate them in order to sell their individual parts for more money (refined sugar vs molasses) or for longer shelf life ( taking out the bran and germ in grains like wheat ).
Refined foods (foods that have great decreases in vitamins, minerals, fiber, protein), chemical foods (additives like Aspartame and others) and getting all or most of our vitamin, mineral and protein needs through animal foods (B vitamins, iron etc or calcium from cow milk)
- are the reasons I believe the western world is suffering epidemics of all kinds of disease from diabetes to heart disease to cancer. These are the base or causal reasons and it is to plants we must look in general for the cure (and sometimes, special ones like Cannabis that has properties in it that if consumed as intended (eaten) greatly speeds up the healing.
Getting back to how this ties in to prayer:
As a Deist, I firmly believe that God does not break His own Design except in special circumstances. This is one of the things that makes some of the miracles in the Bible so special. But they are not the norm - they are done for reasons. When it comes to design issues and
diseases arising from rebellion against design:
Scurvy: Refusing all plant foods will result in lack of Vitamin C - humans (unlike carnivores) don't make it - we need to eat it from the plant world - so scurvy is brought on by rebellion against design!
Pellagra and BeriBeri are also brought on by B vitamin nutritional deficiencies when grains are refined (their parts are separated from each other). In Pellagra (niacin deficiency) the germ is removed from the corn in making cornmeal. In beriberi(thiamine deficiency) -it's the husk of rice that's removed - both of these are examples of messing with nature that results in a disease from a deficiency.
Rebellion against Design results in a greater chance of disease.
God is not going to change his Design to fit humans. So a person who refuses all plant foods and develops scurvy - they have brought it on themselves - the only prayers that are of use is the one that leads the person to the knowledge that plants containing vitamin C help their condition.
Magic healing prayers in Jesus name will not work - if they are done in a context of rebellion against design!
God is not going to change his Design to fit humans. A diet that is high in processed, refined and chemical foods and meats is not how God designed humans. Most of our modern diseases are a direct result of degrees of rebellion against design. Obesity, heart disease, diabetes, clogged arteries, cancer - come from our dietary habits, exposure to chemicals - and in infants - mostly from their mother's dietary habits or exposure to chemicals.
These are design issues - and so far in human history - God doesn't provide the greater answer for the masses in any other form - His design. Not miracles - And Christians don't get a free pass.
