What do you think about Jude quoting Enoch?

[Josiah]

Paul never specified that he’s quoting Menander. Why must we assume that he is?

Jude (whoever he is) never specified that he's quoting the Book of Enoch. Why must we assume he is?

And this author (whoever he is) never indicated that he considers anything to be the inerrant, fully/equally canonical, inscripturated words of God. Why must we assume he thinks he is and he's right?




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[Origen]

Paul never specified that he’s quoting Menander.

He doesn't. That's the point.

You said "Paul made it clear that he was quoting someone else’s literature, not the Bible." Nowhere in 1 Cor. 15:29-34 Paul make "it clear he was quoting someone else’s literature." Thus your claim is blatantly false.

 

[Origen]

Jude specifies that he’s quoting Enoch.

He references a specific prophecy made by Enoch.

Paul never specifies that he’s quoting Menander.

Yes, that is the point.

You said "Paul made it clear that he was quoting someone else’s literature, not the Bible." Nowhere in the above passage does Paul make "it clear he was quoting someone else’s literature." Thus your claim is blatantly false.

Jude indicates that he’s quoting the scriptures.

No where does Jude claim he is quoting the book of 1 Enoch as Scripture.

Your comparison is nonsense.

As always you are missing your own error. You said "Paul made it clear that he was quoting someone else’s literature, not the Bible." Nowhere in 1 Cor. 15:29-34 does Paul make "it clear he was quoting someone else’s literature." Thus your claim is blatantly false.

 

[Origen]

Jude (whoever he is) never specified that he's quoting the Book of Enoch. Why must we assume he is?

Exactly! Judes references a specific prophecy made by Enoch, certainly not the book of 1 Enoch. As I have pointed out Nathan's claim that the quote is "word-for-word verbatim" is completely FALSE.

 

[NathanH83]

Jude (whoever he is) never specified that he's quoting the Book of Enoch. Why must we assume he is?

And this author (whoever he is) never indicated that he considers anything to be the inerrant, fully/equally canonical, inscripturated words of God. Why must we assume he thinks he is and he's right?




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Actually, Jude specifically DID mention Enoch BY NAME and then quoted him. And we find that quote NOT in the Old Testament, but in the book of Enoch.

Paul never mentioned Menander by name and then claimed to be quoting him. Never happened.

Not the same comparison. Not the same in the least bit.

 

[NathanH83]

He doesn't. That's the point.

You said "Paul made it clear that he was quoting someone else’s literature, not the Bible." Nowhere in 1 Cor. 15:29-34 Paul make "it clear he was quoting someone else’s literature." Thus your claim is blatantly false.

In the verses where we know that Paul is quoting Greek literature (in Acts and Titus), he DOES make it clear that he’s quoting someone else’s literature. What I said is quite true.

But as for the verse in Corinthians, he never claims to be quoting anyone. So you don’t even know if he is quoting Menander, and thus your argument is moot.

 

[NathanH83]

He references a specific prophecy made by Enoch.


Yes, that is the point.

You said "Paul made it clear that he was quoting someone else’s literature, not the Bible." Nowhere in the above passage does Paul make "it clear he was quoting someone else’s literature." Thus your claim is blatantly false.


No where does Jude claim he is quoting the book of 1 Enoch as Scripture.


As always you are missing your own error. You said "Paul made it clear that he was quoting someone else’s literature, not the Bible." Nowhere in 1 Cor. 15:29-34 does Paul make "it clear he was quoting someone else’s literature." Thus your claim is blatantly false.

You are the one who made the error.
You are the one who made the claim that Paul quoted Menander. But you cannot back up that claim, since Paul does not claim to be quoting anyone.

But in the verses where he IS quoting someone (as he says) he specifies that he is quoting someone else’s literature, NOT the Bible.

Your claim is baseless.

 

[NathanH83]

Exactly! Judes references a specific prophecy made by Enoch, certainly not the book of 1 Enoch. As I have pointed out Nathan's claim that the quote is "word-for-word verbatim" is completely FALSE.

That is a baseless, nonsensical claim.

How did Jude know that Enoch prophesied this? That prophecy is not found in the Old Testament. It’s found in the Book of Enoch and ZERO books of the Old Testament.

Are you even listening to yourselves? Your claims are complete nonsense that defies all reason and logic.

 

[Origen]

Actually, Jude specifically DID mention Enoch BY NAME and then quoted him

I never said he didn't mention his name.

And we find that quote NOT in the Old Testament

Again I never claimed otherwise.

And we find that quote NOT in the Old Testament, but in the book of Enoch.

First, a close analysis reveals those quotes have significant differences. Second, Jude never clams it come from the book of 1 Enoch.

Paul never mentioned Menander by name and then claimed to be quoting him. Never happened.

Yes I know. That was my point in regard to your claim is blatantly false concerning Paul.

Not the same comparison. Not the same in the least bit.

I never claims they were so your point is irrelevant.

 

[Origen]

You are the one who made the claim that Paul quoted Menander.

I agree with the scholarly consensus. If you can prove all them of wrong, then by all means do. However, it still would not change the fact your claim is completely false. You said "Paul made it clear that he was quoting someone else’s literature, not the Bible." Nowhere in 1 Cor. 15:29-34 does Paul make "it clear he was quoting someone else’s literature" no matter who it was.

 

[Josiah]

Actually, Jude specifically DID mention Enoch BY NAME and then quoted him.

He did not mention any book.

Nor did he mention anything being among the inerrant, fully/equally canonical, divinely-inscripturated words of God.

Nor did he claim to be a child of Mary or an Apostle.

Your claims are completely baseless.



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[Origen]

That is a baseless, nonsensical claim.

Hardly! It is fact.

Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his holy ones, to execute judgment on all and to convict all the ungodly of all their deeds of ungodliness that they have ocommitted in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”

Just as I said:
(1) Judes references a specific prophecy made by Enoch. That is it.
(2) Jude makes no mention of the book 1 Enoch.

How did Jude know that Enoch prophesied this?

It is not my job to help figure out your claims.

That prophecy is not found in the Old Testament.

No one has said otherwise so your point is moot.

It’s found in the Book of Enoch and ZERO books of the Old Testament.

First, a close analysis reveals those quotes have significant differences. Second, Jude never clams it come from the book of 1 Enoch.

Are you even listening to yourselves? Your claims are complete nonsense that defies all reason and logic.

Facts are facts and nothing you have said changes the above facts.