What do we tell unsaved about biblical election?

MoreCoffee

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How can you preach about what Christ did if you do not mention those whom He did it for, and therefore election?
Christ died for all, "For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again." (2 Corinthians 5:14-15 KJV), the just for the unjust, "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit" (1Peter 318)
 

brightfame52

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Christ died for all, "For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again." (2 Corinthians 5:14-15 KJV), the just for the unjust, "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit" (1Peter 318)
Thats the elect all, Paul had called them the called and chosen in 1 Cor 1:26-29

26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

29 That no flesh should glory in his presence
 

MoreCoffee

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Thats the elect all, Paul had called them the called and chosen in 1 Cor 1:26-29
It's always amazing how adroitly some Protestants insert their theology into the scriptures, and they proclaim that they form their theology from the bible alone, or at least from the scriptures as the sole infallible authority for the forming of doctrine. Let's take a look at the paragraph that contains the passage you cited.
For the word of the cross, to them indeed that perish, is foolishness: but to them that are saved, that is, to us, it is the power of God. For it is written: I will destroy the wisdom of the wise: and the prudence of the prudent I will reject. Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this world? Hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For, seeing that in the wisdom of God, the world, by wisdom, knew not God, it pleased God, by the foolishness of our preaching, to save them that believe. For both the Jews require signs: and the Greeks seek after wisdom. But we preach Christ crucified: unto the Jews indeed a stumblingblock, and unto the Gentiles foolishness: But unto them that are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ, the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than men: and the weakness of God is stronger than men. For see your vocation, brethren, that there are not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble. But the foolish things of the world hath God chosen, that he may confound the wise: and the weak things of the world hath God chosen, that he may confound the strong. And the base things of the world and the things that are contemptible, hath God chosen: and things that are not, that he might bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his sight. But of him are you in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom and justice and sanctification and redemption: That, as it is written: He that glorieth may glory in the Lord.​
(1 Corinthians 1:18-31 DRB)
The members of the Church of the living God, which is the pillar and foundation of truth as stated in 1 Timothy 3:15, are summoned by the gospel. They are selected through faith in Jesus Christ, all by the grace of God—an unmerited gift bestowed through Jesus Christ. Scripture indicates that the purpose of this calling and selection is to confound the wise, powerful, and prominent of this world with the gospel's appeal to the humble, weak, and seemingly insignificant, choosing them to nullify what is considered significant in worldly terms. The Lord sought out sinners for repentance, not the righteous, associating with prostitutes and tax collectors rather than the leading religious figures and the affluent of His era. Thus, the election is by grace, not by worldly merit. This is the essence of Saint Paul's message.

Nevertheless saint Paul desires therefore, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions and thanksgivings be made for all men: For kings and for all that are in high station: that we may lead a quiet and a peaceable life in all piety and chastity. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour, Who will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God: and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus: Who gave himself a redemption for all, a testimony in due times. (1 Timothy 2:1-6 DRB)

And so, we know that Christ died for all, God's just man died for the unjust and that is what election is about, God's purpose to give his only begotten Son: that whosoever believeth in him may not perish but may have life everlasting.
 

brightfame52

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@MoreCoffee
It's always amazing how adroitly some Protestants insert their theology into the scriptures,

And yet thats exactly what you do!
 

brightfame52

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Show me where I did that. I am curious to see what you think was a theology insert.
You know where we disagree,havent you been keeping up with what you posted.
 

MoreCoffee

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You know where we disagree,havent you been keeping up with what you posted.
Okay, you haven't given an example, and I'll take that as evidence that you cannot find one.
 

brightfame52

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Okay, you haven't given an example, and I'll take that as evidence that you cannot find one.
Obviously you lack the ability to keep up with what's been discussed already
 

fuddy

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Calvinism has always struck me as the Gospel of Luck. If you're really, really, REALLY lucky, you'll turn out to be one of the elect.

It seems so hideously out of character for the God we are all supposed to try and emulate.

Just me...
 

BruceLeiter

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How can you preach about what Christ did if you do not mention those whom He did it for, and therefore election?
No, election of believers happened before creation. You don't have to mention that part of the truth at that point in order to invite them to trust in Jesus and his grace. You don't want to confuse them; It should come later when they are maturing believers, when they will be more ready for their comfort, not their confusion. Think about it pastorally for their good.
 

BruceLeiter

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Calvinism has always struck me as the Gospel of Luck. If you're really, really, REALLY lucky, you'll turn out to be one of the elect.

It seems so hideously out of character for the God we are all supposed to try and emulate.

Just me...
Luck has nothing to do with Calvinism. It is the arrangement of circumstances without God. Such belief has nothing to do with that system of beliefs.

God must have a very good reason for choosing the elect, but he has not revealed it. It's obvious from Romans 8:28-30 and Ephesians 1:3-14 that God chooses some. He lets others have their own way at some point in their lives, since we're all born lost (Ephesians 2:1-3). The reason why is a mystery.

Also, the identities of the elect are a mystery, except for the assurance we can have about ourselves, because we can't see people's hearts to know absolutely for sure. Only God can.
 

brightfame52

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@BruceLeiter

You don't have to mention that part of the truth

Thats false, thats identifying who Christ died for, as well as why salvation is by grace. Salvation is by the Grace of election Rom 11:5-7

Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

You are withholding vital Grace Truth.
 

fuddy

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Maybe election isn't an either\or situation, or a who-chooses-first situation. Perhaps as God chooses us, we are simultaneously choosing him, and vice versa.

Neither exclusively chooses apart from the other, so election isn't predicated upon a movement forward into belief from either entity.
 

BruceLeiter

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@BruceLeiter



Thats false, thats identifying who Christ died for, as well as why salvation is by grace. Salvation is by the Grace of election Rom 11:5-7

Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

You are withholding vital Grace Truth.
No, you can say that God is a God of grace (free acceptance) apart from anything we can do to earn his approval, because Jesus earned it for us by taking our guilty verdict on himself and giving us our not-guilty verdict. which is absolutely free, before the Father, who is the Judge of all humans. All we have to do is to receive his free gift because of his death and give ourselves to follow Jesus in our daily lives because he rose from the dead.
 

brightfame52

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No, you can say that God is a God of grace (free acceptance) apart from anything we can do to earn his approval, because Jesus earned it for us by taking our guilty verdict on himself and giving us our not-guilty verdict. which is absolutely free, before the Father, who is the Judge of all humans. All we have to do is to receive his free gift because of his death and give ourselves to follow Jesus in our daily lives because he rose from the dead.
You cannot preach Salvation by Grace in the Gospel of Gods Grace, and withhold Salvation by the election of Grace Rom 11:5-7

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace[election], then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

See you are adding works by saying " All we have to do is to receive his free gift "

You are saying man has to do something, receive ! Thats a work then, which is contrary to grace Vs 6 You teach a false gospel
 

BruceLeiter

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You cannot preach Salvation by Grace in the Gospel of Gods Grace, and withhold Salvation by the election of Grace Rom 11:5-7

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace[election], then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

See you are adding works by saying " All we have to do is to receive his free gift "

You are saying man has to do something, receive ! Thats a work then, which is contrary to grace Vs 6 You teach a false gospel
No, receiving the good news isn't works, because the Holy Spirit enables them to do it. However, it's our human responsibility to receive it, according to many commands such as Peter's "Repent...," at the end of his Pentecost sermon. God's comprehensive plans for all events AND full human responsibility are both true.
 

BruceLeiter

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Maybe election isn't an either\or situation, or a who-chooses-first situation. Perhaps as God chooses us, we are simultaneously choosing him, and vice versa.

Neither exclusively chooses apart from the other, so election isn't predicated upon a movement forward into belief from either entity.
Fuddy, I'm afraid that your reasoning is outside of Paul's teachings in Ephesians 1:3-5, which says very clearly that he chose believers before he created anything:

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
Eph 1:5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
 

BruceLeiter

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My answer to the question at the beginning of this thread is with the short version, "No, not until they become believers and are ready to hear it as comfort instead of confusion."
 

brightfame52

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No, receiving the good news isn't works, because the Holy Spirit enables them to do it. However, it's our human responsibility to receive it, according to many commands such as Peter's "Repent...," at the end of his Pentecost sermon. God's comprehensive plans for all events AND full human responsibility are both true.
Yes receiving is a work, its something you did. It doesnt matter if the work was enabled to do by the Spirit, that makes it a work of righteousness, and we not saved by works of righteousness Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Repentance is a work, if you saved by your act of repentance, you reject Grace salvation. All you doing is showing more and more you reject Grace Salvation
 
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