What do Pentecostals believe?

[atpollard]

Your question is a red herring. No one claims that anyone controls God.
Your church claims that the Holy Spirit possesses human bodies, like demons possess human bodies.
The Holy Spirit is our counselor, not one who possesses our bodies. The Spirit is our helper, not one who possesses our bodies. The Holy Spirit prays for us, He does not possess our bodies. The Holy Spirit gives gifts to the body of Christ, He does not possess our bodies. Never once in Scripture do we find God possessing one of His creation.

Which part of "No, that is not what they believe." are you having trouble comprehending?
Of course, you, a Reformed Christian, know more about what Pentecostals believe than someone who attends a Pentecostal Church ... so why bother telling you anything. You already know everything.

Proverbs 26:4

 

[George]

Before I came to this forum I didn't even know they existed. If I have to choose between protestant or catholic I'd say it looks more like catholic.

Somewhat similar views, but still not Catholic, thanks.

 

[MennoSota]

Which part of "No, that is not what they believe." are you having trouble comprehending?
Of course, you, a Reformed Christian, know more about what Pentecostals believe than someone who attends a Pentecostal Church ... so why bother telling you anything. You already know everything.

Proverbs 26:4

You are running from the question because you cannot answer it. The question is not foolish, but you are plucking a verse so as to run from your dilemma.
What makes your church think that being filled with the Spirit is equal to being possessed by the Spirit? The Bible never indicates that filling equals possession. Perhaps your church just chose poor wording. I doubt that all pentacostal groups believe a Christian can be possessed by God so that there is no control over any body functions. That is not to say that God is incapable of doing that, but that God never indicates that He does any such thing with any of His creation.
We see that some of the prophets were in a trance or had a vision, but that is not possession.
Words are important because they convey meaning. When your church uses the word "possesed" it is used as a adjective, that means to take over and control a person's body. Why did your church choose that word? Does your pentacostal church believe in being bodily possessed by God the Spirit?
I assume they believe in free-will. How does Spirit possession fit with free-will teaching?

 

[Andrew]

Your question is a red herring. No one claims that anyone controls God.
Your church claims that the Holy Spirit possesses human bodies, like demons possess human bodies.
The Holy Spirit is our counselor, not one who possesses our bodies. The Spirit is our helper, not one who possesses our bodies. The Holy Spirit prays for us, He does not possess our bodies. The Holy Spirit gives gifts to the body of Christ, He does not possess our bodies. Never once in Scripture do we find God possessing one of His creation.

Sorry Meno but you are dismissing a very crucial and logical reason for the term "possessed", I was using your definition of the word and using scripture to explain why that church may have chose to use it.

You posted the definition of the word "Possessed" as...
---------
spurred or moved by a strong feeling, madness, or a supernatural power (often followed by by, of, or with):

The army fought as if possessed. The village believed her to be possessed of the devil.
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Madness does not mean the same as super natural power or spurred or moved by a strong feeling, these meanings differ in context obviously.
'The army fought as if possessed' is used in the context meaning 'moved by a strong feeling' and the 'The village believed her to be possessed of the devil' would seem to fit the 'madness' context but not 'moved by a strong feeling...

I would like to use the first phrase used in the definition and relate it to Elijah
'Spurred or moved by a strong feeling'

--------------
1 Kings 18:45-46: 45 Meanwhile, the sky grew black with clouds, the wind rose, a heavy rain started falling and Ahab rode off to Jezreel. 46 The power of the Lord came on Elijah and, tucking his cloak into his belt, he ran ahead of Ahab all the way to Jezreel
-----------
Wouldn't you agree that even though the word "possessed" is not used in verse 46, that the notion of 'tucking his cloak into his belt and running ahead of Ahab all the way to Jezreel' being a form of 'Spurred'... and that he was 'moved by a strong feeling' (ran ahead of Ahab..) as "The power of the Lord came on Elijah"?

I used your definition, determined its examples by context, applied it to scripture, compared the context to scripture, used scriptural phrases as examples for the definition and concluded that Elijah was moved by a strong feeling and was spurred as the power of the Lord came to him.
So yes one can be spurred and moved by a supernatural power from the Lord and one may even call Elijah 'mad' for running such a loooooong long distance.

Menno I am just making an effort to help you understand that the word "possessed" is not always necessarily sinister or demonic, depends on the context. In this case the context is referring to the Holy Spirit so cannot be sinister. Im sure most people wont even question what 'possessed by the Holy Spirit' means.

At least consider the possibility for sake of arguing with others strong beliefs.





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[MennoSota]

Sorry Meno but you are dismissing a very crucial and logical reason for the term "possessed" using your definition of the word and by scripture to explain why they may have chose to use it.

You posted the definition of the word "Possessed" as...
---------
spurred or moved by a strong feeling, madness, or a supernatural power (often followed by by, of, or with):

The army fought as if possessed. The village believed her to be possessed of the devil.
--------------
Madness does not mean the same as super natural power or spurred or moved by a strong feeling, these meanings differ in context obviously.
'The army fought as if possessed' is used in the context meaning 'moved by a strong feeling' and the 'The village believed her to be possessed of the devil' would seem to fit the 'madness' context but not 'moved by a strong feeling...

I would like to use the first phrase used in the definition and relate it to Elijah
'Spurred or moved by a strong feeling'

--------------
1 Kings 18:45-46: 45 Meanwhile, the sky grew black with clouds, the wind rose, a heavy rain started falling and Ahab rode off to Jezreel. 46 The power of the Lord came on Elijah and, tucking his cloak into his belt, he ran ahead of Ahab all the way to Jezreel
-----------
Wouldn't you agree that even though the word "possessed" is not used in verse 46, that the notion of 'tucking his cloak into his belt and running ahead of Ahab all the way to Jezreel' being a form of 'Spurred'... and that he was 'moved by a strong feeling' as "The power of the Lord came on Elijah"?

I used your definition, determined its examples by context, applied it to scripture, compared the context to scripture, used scriptural phrases as examples for the definition and concluded that Elijah was moved by a strong feeling and was spurred as the power of the Lord came to him.
So yes one can be spurred and moved by a supernatural power from the Lord and one may even call Elijah 'mad' for running such a loooooong long distance.

Menno I am just making an effort to help you understand that the word "possessed" is not always necessarily sinister or demonic, depends on the context. In this case the context is referring to the Holy Spirit so cannot be sinister. Im sure most people wont even question what 'possessed by the Holy Spirit' means.

At least consider the possibility for sake of arguing with others strong beliefs.





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Thank you.
If we take your perspective of being "spurred or moved by a strong feeling" as possession, then the word might fit. I can concede this possibility if we discount the idea of the Holy Spirit having a complete taking over of the body so the body has no control except by the demands of that spirit being.

 

[Andrew]

Thank you.
If we take your perspective of being "spurred or moved by a strong feeling" as possession, then the word might fit. I can concede this possibility if we discount the idea of the Holy Spirit having a complete taking over of the body so the body has no control except by the demands of that spirit being.

No problem


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[Imalive]

Are you inferring that the Spirit, at Pentacost, possessed the believers?
There is a difference between being empowered and being possessed. Your church chose the word "possessed." Why use that specific word?

We are the possession of Christ. He bought us w His blood. Thats why we cant be demon posessed.

 

[user1234]

We are the possession of Christ. He bought us w His blood. Thats why we cant be demon posessed.

Yes.
As is usual on the forums, there seems to be a misunderstanding of terms and usage.
(Couple that with my many typos and ppls tendencies to look for persecutions where there isnt any ... suspicious minds)
And this should be fun .....
I'll add my two-cents, if anyone cares to take me off ignore and read it .....

 

[user1234]

We are the possession of Christ. He bought us w His blood. Thats why we cant be demon posessed.

Yes, we are possessed by God, bought, purchased, by Jesus Christs blood.
So He OWNS us ... We are His POSSESSION.
Absolutely, like you said.
You got that right...IM AGREEING WITH YOU.

(Thats why osas is true, btw :cheer: )

And yes, no demon can own or possess us.
We also, as blood-bought sons and daughters, are INDWELT with the Holy Spirit ... Christ in you, the hope of glory.
So no demon can be IN us.

But we CAN be influenced by them, mainly through false doctrines and practices, and we are in a real battle, thats why we're to put on the full armor of God...and the battle often starts in our mind, our thinking (thats why we need to have on the HELMET of SALVATION.

Be saved and know it and know you cant LOSE your salvation...stand on the Solid Rock and hide yourself in it so as not to be tossed about with every wind of demonic doctrine and cunning sleight of men that would try to pull you from the all-sufficient sacrifice and salvation in Christ.

I think the confusion is over the way the word 'possession' is being used.
Being led of the Spirit is how we should be.
But if someone has set their own soundness of mind aside, and is just manifesting some strange actions or preaching false doctrine, then they are either being manipulated by a person or demon, or, if theyre not a saved believer, they could be 'possessed' by one.

I think at least one poster here is concerned that the term 'possessed' is being used in the same way as a person being 'possessed by demons', taking over their mind and/or body.

But God is not the author of confusion. Christ makes us free, not reckless and out of control. (Thats what we were before salvation, whether we acted like it or knew it or not)
He hasnt given us a spirit of fear but of love and a sound mind and He wants us to use it.

I just think the posters are worried over the usage of the term possessed in that churches Statement of Beliefs that makes it sound like ppl are expected to 'hand themselves over...body and mind...and allow themselves to be manipulated by an unseen force, even tho they're calling it the Holy Spirit.

Am I reading that right? Anyway, I think it's a proper concern, and it's good to look after each other like that ... Not to condemn the person, but to help and correct, and possibly expose any false teaching/practice ... If there is any. Peace.