What church?

[MoreCoffee]

When Jesus said

"Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father, who is in heaven. And I say to you, that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound, even in heaven. And whatever you shall release on earth shall be released, even in heaven."
Matthew 16:17-20​

What church was he talking about? Yours? An invisible one? Or a real one that is visible and that a person can join when God calls?

 

[psalms 91]

Christs church which is made up of those who have that close personal relationship with Him and obey Him, listen to the voice of the spirit and are led by it. These are those across all denoms but they are few just as is said that narrow is the road and few that find it

 

[MoreCoffee]

Christs church which is made up of those who have that close personal relationship with Him and obey Him, listen to the voice of the spirit and are led by it. These are those across all denoms but they are few just as is said that narrow is the road and few that find it

Really? That isn't what Jesus said is it? You just made that all up. Probably somebody told you that and you're repeating it as if it were true.

 

[psalms 91]

Really? That isn't what Jesus said is it? You just made that all up. Probably somebody told you that and you're repeating it as if it were true.

You mean like you repeat it for the Catholic church? We all know it was not started then and that there was a governing body in Jerusalem not in Rome and it was not Catholic. Lets get it straight as to who is making things up

 

[Josiah]

When Jesus said

"Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father, who is in heaven. And I say to you, that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound, even in heaven. And whatever you shall release on earth shall be released, even in heaven."
Matthew 16:17-20​

What church was he talking about? Yours? An invisible one? Or a real one that is visible and that a person can join when God calls?

The church that is the the community/communion of ALL believers. ALL those with the gift of faith (perhaps 5 billion or so - most now in heaven).... spread out over all the continents and centuries..... all children of God, brothers and sisters in Christ, all with the one faith in the one Savior. And yes, it is built on the faith that Peter had just proclaimed - faith in Christ, the Son of God, the Savior. God joins us to this church, this communion, this family when He gives us the gift of faith.



- Josiah

 

[MoreCoffee]

You mean like you repeat it for the Catholic church? We all know it was not started then and that there was a governing body in Jerusalem not in Rome and it was not Catholic. Lets get it straight as to who is making things up

I give the sources for my quotes. It's the polite thing to do. Besides if it is Catholic Teaching that one wants what better source than official Catholic documents intended to state Catholic doctrine? I am not ashamed of the gospel. It is the power of God for the salvation of the faithful. Quoting truth is a good thing psalms 91, even if you don't like it I will continue doing it.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The church that is the the community/communion of ALL believers. ALL those with the gift of faith (perhaps 5 billion or so - most now in heaven).... spread out over all the continents and centuries..... all children of God, brothers and sisters in Christ, all with the one faith in the one Savior. And yes, it is built on the faith that Peter had just proclaimed - faith in Christ, the Son of God, the Savior. God joins us to this church, this communion, this family when He gives us the gift of faith.
- Josiah

That's not what Jesus said, is it? You made that up didn't you or somebody told you that and now you're repeating it as if it were true. But it isn't what Jesus said.

 

[TurtleHare]

When Jesus said

"Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father, who is in heaven. And I say to you, that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound, even in heaven. And whatever you shall release on earth shall be released, even in heaven."
Matthew 16:17-20​

What church was he talking about? Yours? An invisible one? Or a real one that is visible and that a person can join when God calls?

The unbelieving are not a part of the Church that Jesus referred to so we know those who are the faithful build up the body of the true Church and they can be seen within the congregation churches spread throughout the world even though those churches contain the hypocrites who do not believe and will not receive the life eternal. If we have no faith we belong to satan the father of lies.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The unbelieving are not a part of the Church that Jesus referred to so we know those who are the faithful build up the body of the true Church and they can be seen within the congregation churches spread throughout the world even though those churches contain the hypocrites who do not believe and will not receive the life eternal. If we have no faith we belong to satan the father of lies.

What Jesus said is "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father, who is in heaven. And I say to you, that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound, even in heaven. And whatever you shall release on earth shall be released, even in heaven." There's no discussion about membership there. Why do these replies (yours, Josiah's, Psalms 91's) all centre on denominational teaching about membership? Can't the passage just say what it says without folk importing all sorts of denominational theology into it?

 

[TurtleHare]

My response was not inclusive of membership so I will not clarify it since you are trying to be disagreeable and not wanting to read what has been typed up in front of you and that is that only the faithful believers belong to the church that Jesus referred to.

 

[MoreCoffee]

My response was not inclusive of membership so I will not clarify it since you are trying to be disagreeable and not wanting to read what has been typed up in front of you and that is that only the faithful believers belong to the church that Jesus referred to.

Honestly sweet TurtleHare, if I were trying to be disagreeable then I'd do a far better job of it than my posts in this thread

 

[TurtleHare]

I honestly believe you sweet MoreCoffee hehe

 

[MoreCoffee]

I honestly believe you sweet MoreCoffee hehe

Isn't it lovely to be sweet together. Now how about dealing with what Jesus said in the passage from the first post? It really doesn't say a thing about membership in the Church.

"Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father, who is in heaven. And I say to you, that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound, even in heaven. And whatever you shall release on earth shall be released, even in heaven."

 

[psalms 91]

I give the sources for my quotes. It's the polite thing to do. Besides if it is Catholic Teaching that one wants what better source than official Catholic documents intended to state Catholic doctrine? I am not ashamed of the gospel. It is the power of God for the salvation of the faithful. Quoting truth is a good thing psalms 91, even if you don't like it I will continue doing it.

Fine but present the gospel not Catholic doctrine that I have no problem with. Catholic doctrine belongs in the Catholic section

 

[MoreCoffee]

Fine but present the gospel not Catholic doctrine that I have no problem with. Catholic doctrine belongs in the Catholic section

Catholic Church teaching is the gospel. That's where your posts are in error. They say all sorts of things about Catholicism that are wrong because they don't go to Catholic Church sources to find the truth.

 

[psalms 91]

So be it I am done with this pointless arguing and pointing out things that do not change

 

[MoreCoffee]

So be it I am done with this pointless arguing and pointing out things that do not change

Excellent. now you can discuss the thread's topic rather than complain about it.

 

[Rens]

When Jesus said

"Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father, who is in heaven. And I say to you, that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound, even in heaven. And whatever you shall release on earth shall be released, even in heaven."
Matthew 16:17-20​

What church was he talking about? Yours? An invisible one? Or a real one that is visible and that a person can join when God calls?

A real one. One woman went to a pastor and asked for prayer in the prayer line. He said: What church do you attend? She said the universal church. He said: then ask the pastor from the universal church to pray for you.

 

[tango]

When Jesus said

"Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father, who is in heaven. And I say to you, that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound, even in heaven. And whatever you shall release on earth shall be released, even in heaven."
Matthew 16:17-20​

What church was he talking about? Yours? An invisible one? Or a real one that is visible and that a person can join when God calls?

It obviously wasn't a physical church if it was built upon a person, unless there is a church somewhere that is literally built upon the physical remains of Peter. In that regard it seems more reasonable to conclude that "my Church" refers to a group of people rather than a physical building and therefore is arguably, to use your words, "an invisible one". You can physically see and point at individual people but the sense that "a group of people" is a concept over and above those people being physically present in one place isn't something that can be seen. The individual people can be seen, the friendship/fellowship between them cannot.

 

[MoreCoffee]

It obviously wasn't a physical church if it was built upon a person, unless there is a church somewhere that is literally built upon the physical remains of Peter.

There is a Church built upon the tomb of saint Peter the name of the church built there is Saint Peter's on the Vatican hill. It is the Basilica where the pope conducts masses and in which popes are crowned. The famous church building seen in virtually every papal mass from Rome. Another church is built on the tomb of saint Paul it is called Papal Basilica of St. Paul outside the Walls. It looks like this

But you are mistaken to think that the Lord's words to saint Peter signified a place where a building would be built. He spoke of the Church not of a church building. And by saying that the Church would be built upon saint Peter he appears to have been speaking of both the testimony of saint Peter and Peter's role in the Church as first among the apostles leading them in the establishment of the Kingdom of God on Earth.

In that regard it seems more reasonable to conclude that "my Church" refers to a group of people rather than a physical building and therefore is arguably, to use your words, "an invisible one". You can physically see and point at individual people but the sense that "a group of people" is a concept over and above those people being physically present in one place isn't something that can be seen. The individual people can be seen, the friendship/fellowship between them cannot.