Voting your moral values.

[MoreCoffee]

In the USA 71% of Evangelical Christians - a group usually associated with "moral values" in their voting - voted for Donald Trump. A man divorced and remarried several times, alleged to have made unwelcome and improper sexual advances to numerous women, who concealed his tax status both prior to the election and after it, and who is alleged to have had ties to foreign powers (specifically Russia) in the foreign powers' efforts to influence the USA presidential and congressional elections in November 2016. I am guessing the desire for a voice in the corridors of power in the USA trumped moral values for those voters. Which is odd when one considers that the moral values are allegedly Christian values which form a fundamental part of religious identity for Evangelical Christians in the USA.

 

[Albion]

What people often forget is that an election is a contest between two alternatives. Whatever list of supposed offenses is laid at the feet of candidate Trump,
the voters were not faced with choosing between him and St. Francis of Assisi.

In other words, the voters--and perhaps especially the Evangelical ones--knew very well that Hillary was much, much less admirable. And that's not the end of it, either. President Trump has actually done right by Christians whereas Hillary would have continued Obama's policy of restricting religious freedom and expression. That means that, on a purely practical basis, Evangelicals had good reason to choose him over her.

 

[Confessional Lutheran]

It was a lousy election with two lousy choices. Who sucked less?

 

[psalms 91]

Yup, and I am amazed that people a re surprised with Trump, you could see what he is before the election, did you think he would magically change? I just hope the poor people will survive his presidency, at least the Republican senators have blocked his taking away health care, fix what is wrong with Obamacare, dont scrap it and hurt millions. I am just waiting to see what else he has in store for the poor while trying to rewqard those who have a lot.

 

[MoreCoffee]

What people often forget is that an election is a contest between two alternatives. ...

No, it is not between two alternatives. An election is between as many candidates as the ballot paper holds. In nearly every presidential and congressional election that is more than two. IN the last Presidential election is was more than four.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Yup, and I am amazed that people a re surprised with Trump, you could see what he is before the election, did you think he would magically change? I just hope the poor people will survive his presidency, at least the Republican senators have blocked his taking away health care, fix what is wrong with Obamacare, dont scrap it and hurt millions. I am just waiting to see what else he has in store for the poor while trying to rewqard those who have a lot.

Two bad candidates from two parties but what about the Greens, independents, Libertarians, and whoever else ran? Surely at least one was better from a "moral values" point of view.

 

[Albion]

No, they weren't. But that aside, it's hard to fault any voter who thinks it's not a good policy to just throw one's vote away. Doing that makes you feel principled, but in reality it is to cast half a vote for the worst of the candidates who have a chance of winning (in this case, Hillary).

 

[MoreCoffee]

Voting for any candidate is not throwing one's vote away.

 

[Albion]

No, it is not between two alternatives. An election is between as many candidates as the ballot paper holds.

Only in theory. At least that's so in the American (not Parliamentary) system of government.

 

[Albion]

Voting for any candidate is not throwing one's vote away.

As I said, you get personal satisfaction out of doing that. However, it's not going to change the outcome of the election, which is what is meant when people speak of throwing your vote away.

 

[NewCreation435]

In the USA 71% of Evangelical Christians - a group usually associated with "moral values" in their voting - voted for Donald Trump. A man divorced and remarried several times, alleged to have made unwelcome and improper sexual advances to numerous women, who concealed his tax status both prior to the election and after it, and who is alleged to have had ties to foreign powers (specifically Russia) in the foreign powers' efforts to influence the USA presidential and congressional elections in November 2016. I am guessing the desire for a voice in the corridors of power in the USA trumped moral values for those voters. Which is odd when one considers that the moral values are allegedly Christian values which form a fundamental part of religious identity for Evangelical Christians in the USA.

I had a conversation about this with a friend who is a very conservative pastor and now a professor at a seminary. He told me he was primarily picking Trump because he would be the one to make the next supreme court pick and maybe more than one. This would have influence on court decisions for possibly decades to come. Particularly with issues such as abortion. Which, I believe Clinton was in favor of even late term abortions.

 

[NewCreation435]

Two bad candidates from two parties but what about the Greens, independents, Libertarians, and whoever else ran? Surely at least one was better from a "moral values" point of view.

I had a friend on facebook who actually defriended me because I said I was voting 3rd party. He was a pastor and said that a vote for 3rd party is a vote for Hilary and abortion on demand

 

[MoreCoffee]

I had a friend on facebook who actually defriended me because I said I was voting 3rd party. He was a pastor and said that a vote for 3rd party is a vote for Hilary and abortion on demand

Well, he was wrong. He was also immature. He probably ought not be a pastor.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I had a conversation about this with a friend who is a very conservative pastor and now a professor at a seminary. He told me he was primarily picking Trump because he would be the one to make the next supreme court pick and maybe more than one. This would have influence on court decisions for possibly decades to come. Particularly with issues such as abortion. Which, I believe Clinton was in favor of even late term abortions.

Your professor friend was making excuses. But that is okay, people make excuses for their bad decisions all the time

:smirk:

 

[Imalive]

Yup, and I am amazed that people a re surprised with Trump, you could see what he is before the election, did you think he would magically change? I just hope the poor people will survive his presidency, at least the Republican senators have blocked his taking away health care, fix what is wrong with Obamacare, dont scrap it and hurt millions. I am just waiting to see what else he has in store for the poor while trying to rewqard those who have a lot.

My uncle lives in America and he voted for Trump, my dad said. Cuz hes filthy rich and wants to have as much as possible. He was a bit offended when my dad said he didn't like Trump.

 

[NewCreation435]

Well, he was wrong. He was also immature. He probably ought not be a pastor.

I know, I was shocked by his behavior. When I emailed him about it he told me that he wasn't mad at me, but had strong feelings about abortion.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I know, I was shocked by his behavior. When I emailed him about it he told me that he wasn't mad at me, but had strong feelings about abortion.

I am old enough not to care when people get all worked up about nothing ... when I am feeling naughty I'd be tempted to email back to him saying "I have strong feelings about what being a pastor means and you don't make the grade."

 

[Albion]

Well, he was wrong. He was also immature. He probably ought not be a pastor.

He might have been wrong to defriend anyone, but not because he opposes abortion on demand and the candidate who favored that policy.

 

[hedrick]

As you obviously know, Christians differ radically on what Christian morals are. Anyone who thinks Hillary was worse holds morals that I don't recognize. But the fact is that many Christians, maybe a majority, do hold such values.

There's really not much we can say that is going to affect that.

 

[Albion]

As you obviously know, Christians differ radically on what Christian morals are. Anyone who thinks Hillary was worse holds morals that I don't recognize. .

Oh, you know--Racism, anti-Semitism, criminal activity, dishonesty, soliciting and accepting bribes through the Clinton Foundation, threatening her husband's sexual victims, etc.

All things considered, no, the average Christian probably doesn't match up to that profile.