Vocational Courses at High School or Other

[Jason76]

When I was in high school (around 1991/92), I took a small engine repair class (which included some welding). Anyway, I wasn't much into vocational courses - instead often taking college prep stuff. However, though, I had fun in the vocational one I was in and regretting not taking Building Trades and Greenhouse.

 

[Lamb]

I wish schools would offer more vocational classes. There are plenty of students who won't or can't go on to college so having a knowledge of a vocation or trade would benefit them in their career choice. I went to art school which was an accredited college but did not offer a bachelor's degree until after I graduated in the late 80s. I learned how to get a job in my field and it helped. I didn't want to go to a regular college and have to fill my year with classes that wouldn't help me get a job!

 

[Josiah]

When I was in high school (around 1991/92), I took a small engine repair class (which included some welding). Anyway, I wasn't much into vocational courses - instead often taking college prep stuff. However, though, I had fun in the vocational one I was in and regretting not taking Building Trades and Greenhouse.

I never went to high school (long story, but yup, I sort of skipped it) but I'm opposed to having much "trades" courses there. SOME.... maybe permitting 3 or 4 such courses during the 4 years... but there is MUCH that should be learned in the "solids." It's good to have an educated man (who happens to earn her living as a plumber).


What I am very much in favor of is community colleges. We have these all over California.... they are VERY easy to get into.... they are almost free.... and one can do lots of things there: never take a "solid" but learn how to be a diesel machanic, learn to be a chief, learn to be a dental assistance or vocational nurse..... or complete the first two years of college (as I did) and automatically transfer to one of the best universities in the nation (as I did)... or any combo thereof. For like $20.00 per credit. With evening and weekend classes for those working. With childcare offered right on campus at greatly subsidized rates. THAT I support! THAT I made use of. But here's the deal.... IMO all who enter should have (or in combination get) a high school diploma - With English classes and the ability to read well and write well, with 4 years of science and at least algebra, with at least some knowledge of history and civics, etc. Essential if they are heading toward a BA and highly beneficial even if they will be doing computer repair.


Another reasons I passionately embrace community colleges is that they are "second chance" schools. In Europe, typically a person has one shot (and that determined when they are maybe 14!!!). In the USA, we believe in second changes (third, fourth, fifth, sixth changes, too!). People can go to a community college in California at ANY age (yup, I was 12 when I took my first college class), with or without a high school diploma (I don't have one, just a Ph.D.), and one can change their major 321 times. A FEW take advantage of these (as career students) - and that DOES need to be addressed - but I LOVE the idea of second possibilities.... the idea that college need NOT be a "one time" thing done when one is 18-22. And that there's nothing wrong with trades. BUT I think this should be done AFTER high school (or high school combined with it). Education is a good thing. Education blesses and enriches - not only our work but our lives and society.



- Josiah

 

[Josiah]

I wish schools would offer more vocational classes. There are plenty of students who won't or can't go on to college so having a knowledge of a vocation or trade would benefit them in their career choice. I went to art school which was an accredited college but did not offer a bachelor's degree until after I graduated in the late 80s. I learned how to get a job in my field and it helped. I didn't want to go to a regular college and have to fill my year with classes that wouldn't help me get a job!

When I was an undergrad, the college REQUIRED that I take a course in art history. Art history has NOTHING to do with physics (my major) and I knew nothing about it and cared nothing for it. It was one of MANY "core" classes the school MADE me take in order to get my degree (um.... declare me educated). I NEVER voluntarily would have taken that class - even if they had paid me.

I LOVED it. And was amazed how much religion, philosophy, history, even politics was involved in all this.... and amazed by the skill I never really noticed. Today - as a direct result - I LOVE to go to art museums and galleries. I'm a frequent visitor to such and I'm a patron of one in my town (supporting it with monthly contributions). When my beloved and I are on vacation, we love to visit art museums and galleries. I can engage (with SOME intelligence) in conversation with the artist. The college MADE a young man take this..... knowing it would enrich me.... and they were right.

I hold this is true with all education.




- Josiah

 

[tango]

When I was in high school (around 1991/92), I took a small engine repair class (which included some welding). Anyway, I wasn't much into vocational courses - instead often taking college prep stuff. However, though, I had fun in the vocational one I was in and regretting not taking Building Trades and Greenhouse.

I wish there was more focus on vocational skills and practical skills than purely academic skills.

I remember a guy when I was at school. Even before the age of 10 it was pretty obvious that this guy was, academically speaking, thick. In English schools back then it was almost unheard of for a student to be kept back to repeat a year, so there was quite a lot of stigma attached to being kept back. He was held back at least once. It was only after he got chance to do something other than academic stuff that he discovered what he was good at.

At that time if you gave me a piece of wood and some woodworking tools I'd make some offcuts and sawdust. He'd make just about anything you could think of. If you gave me a green space and some seeds and plants I'd turn it into either a wasteland or a weed-infested wilderness. He could start from the wilderness and make a beautiful garden. I could juggle numbers in my head but he was the sort of person who struggled to count beyond 10 without taking off his shoes and socks.

If you want someone to do your taxes you won't want him anywhere near the job. If you want someone to landscape your garden, you won't want to be asking me to do it unless you have a very loose definition of "landscape".

 

[tango]

Another reasons I passionately embrace community colleges is that they are "second chance" schools. In Europe, typically a person has one shot (and that determined when they are maybe 14!!!). In the USA, we believe in second changes (third, fourth, fifth, sixth changes, too!). People can go to a community college in California at ANY age (yup, I was 12 when I took my first college class), with or without a high school diploma (I don't have one, just a Ph.D.), and one can change their major 321 times. A FEW take advantage of these (as career students) - and that DOES need to be addressed - but I LOVE the idea of second possibilities.... the idea that college need NOT be a "one time" thing done when one is 18-22. And that there's nothing wrong with trades. BUT I think this should be done AFTER high school (or high school combined with it). Education is a good thing. Education blesses and enriches - not only our work but our lives and society.

- Josiah

In the UK you can go to university at any age but obviously it's harder to actually do it once you've got things like a job and a mortgage. Increasingly it seems you can take a degree on day release although obviously that requires your employer to support it because you're out of work one day every week for an extended period. There's also the Open University where you take classes to earn credits in your own time - for the longest time it was considered a second-class option but over time I think employers came to understand that completing a degree course while also holding down a full time job was actually more of achievement than attending class for 15 hours a week when you don't have other commitments.

I'd support any opportunities for people to learn without breaking the bank. As I've said elsewhere there's more to learning than sitting down in a classroom and being told stuff but if you can take a class without having to find lots of money to fund it that seems like a good thing.

Commenting on your other post about art history, an old friend of mine has a doctorate in pure mathematics from Oxford University. As far as numbers goes he's the ultimate propeller-head. Last I heard he was working as a professional cryptographer. He also took multiple units in philosophy (in the US I think you'd call it a minor), to make sure he kept his feet on the ground while immersing himself in numbers.