Very Odd

tango

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Here's an interesting take on the events in DC.


Let's hope the incoming administration truly does seek to heal and listen to everybody rather than letting the radical left push its agenda.
 

Lämmchen

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I think we can keep both conversations here in this thread since there isn't much more news about what happened at the Capitol and talking about the reasons why it happened and how it can be avoided is helping to enrich our lives :)
 

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This conversation was just getting interesting, and I would love to continue, but my courses have opened up. This means the next 7 weeks are going to be out of the question for posting meaningful dialogue. Sorry... I wish more people had engaged because it would have made a good read! Tango, you made some really good points that I wish we could talk further about...
 

hedrick

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Here's an interesting take on the events in DC.


Let's hope the incoming administration truly does seek to heal and listen to everybody rather than letting the radical left push its agenda.
One of the most important things BIden needs to do is find a way to convince people in rural areas that the administration cares about them. Doing things that objectively help them isn't good enough. People don't vote based on likely outcomes but on who seems to be like them and sympathetic to them.

If I were in his position I'd ask a couple of cabinet officers (maybe agriculture) to act as ambassadors to the rural population, and do lots of symbolic things as well as real things. I'm not seeing much sign that the incoming administration is going to do this sort of thing.
 

Lämmchen

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One of the most important things BIden needs to do is find a way to convince people in rural areas that the administration cares about them. Doing things that objectively help them isn't good enough. People don't vote based on likely outcomes but on who seems to be like them and sympathetic to them.

If I were in his position I'd ask a couple of cabinet officers (maybe agriculture) to act as ambassadors to the rural population, and do lots of symbolic things as well as real things. I'm not seeing much sign that the incoming administration is going to do this sort of thing.

Biden is his own worse enemy though. If you recall, he flamed Trump supporters when they were honking their horns at his rallies. That's not very Presidential according to Democrats when Trump flamed...so why did Biden get a pass? People remember how they're treated. Biden should start apologizing, but he won't for offending the other side.

I agree with you that it's important that he starts making the other side feel as if he cares about them.

On FoxNews they brought it up a couple times that the reason people flocked to Trump was because he heard them whereas "politicians" did not.
 

hedrick

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Biden is his own worse enemy though. If you recall, he flamed Trump supporters when they were honking their horns at his rallies. That's not very Presidential according to Democrats when Trump flamed...so why did Biden get a pass? People remember how they're treated. Biden should start apologizing, but he won't for offending the other side.

I agree with you that it's important that he starts making the other side feel as if he cares about them.

On FoxNews they brought it up a couple times that the reason people flocked to Trump was because he heard them whereas "politicians" did not.
Of course plenty of Republican leaders demonize liberals as well. Put together, these encourage tribalism. We need a president who sees dealing with tribalism as more important than defeating the other party. I'm not seeing many of either party who are willing to do that.
 

Lämmchen

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Of course plenty of Republican leaders demonize liberals as well. Put together, these encourage tribalism. We need a president who sees dealing with tribalism as more important than defeating the other party. I'm not seeing many of either party who are willing to do that.

Well, we've been told for 4 years now how bad Republicans are...but my point is that Biden does the same exact things that Trump has done with mocking and name calling, yet no one calls him out for it? Why? And that isn't going to lead to unity if he can't shut his mouth.
 

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Well, we've been told for 4 years now how bad Republicans are...but my point is that Biden does the same exact things that Trump has done with mocking and name calling, yet no one calls him out for it? Why? And that isn't going to lead to unity if he can't shut his mouth.

And for the 8 years before that we were told how evil Obama and the Democrats were and the GOP made every attempt to thwart Obama from doing his duties as President. Biden may have a few nasty comments but in fact it is stepping out of character for him and he could never approach the master of nasty, Trump. When has Trump ever shut his mouth?
 

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And for the 8 years before that we were told how evil Obama and the Democrats were and the GOP made every attempt to thwart Obama from doing his duties as President. Biden may have a few nasty comments but in fact it is stepping out of character for him and he could never approach the master of nasty, Trump. When has Trump ever shut his mouth?

Aren't we trying to talk about how Unity is to be done? How does what you say bring up any type of relief to say.... WELL YOU SAID THIS FOR 8 YEARS.

How does what you say relieve Biden from responsibility for his own words and how that isn't going to bring unity? Do you see what I'm saying. People need to start being responsible and not constantly do the "but they said it first" which is part of some of the same type of flaming issues we have had here for 5 years on CH! We have people who feel insulted and then flame and then instead of taking responsibility for their own words they place blame on the other guy.

So please don't say that Biden should mistreat Americans because there were some people who mistreated Obama. That doesn't fly.
 

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People need to start being responsible and not constantly do the "but they said it first" which is part of some of the same type of flaming issues we have had here for 5 years on CH! We have people who feel insulted and then flame and then instead of taking responsibility for their own words they place blame on the other guy.
Which is exactly what you were doing in the message I was responding too. But you are correct in that we must look to the future and co-operate. I am not hopeful at all that the Trumpist wing of the GOP can do that.
 

tango

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This conversation was just getting interesting, and I would love to continue, but my courses have opened up. This means the next 7 weeks are going to be out of the question for posting meaningful dialogue. Sorry... I wish more people had engaged because it would have made a good read! Tango, you made some really good points that I wish we could talk further about...

Awww.... hope your courses go well. I'm always open to a discussion so if/when you're free to continue I won't be too far away. To be honest I find a discussion like this to be particularly interesting because I get to see something of what inspires people with different viewpoints to reach and hold those viewpoints, which in turn makes me think about how and why I believe what I do.
 

tango

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Which is exactly what you were doing in the message I was responding too. But you are correct in that we must look to the future and co-operate. I am not hopeful at all that the Trumpist wing of the GOP can do that.

I'm not sure that the most vocal fringes of either party are even remotely interested in healing divides.

From the silly fringes of the Republican party who think "making liberals cry" is a good reason to vote for Trump to the silly fringes of the Democrat party who think that a reduced majority in Congress and wafer-thin control of the Senate is some kind of overwhelming mandate for a full-on progressive agenda, there are certainly reasonable numbers on both sides who seem to think it's their job to impose their world views on everyone. Which leads me, time and again, to the conclusion the best government we can possibly have is a small government that can't do some of the more silly things the fringes of both sides might like to do.

What we have now, as mentioned above, is the kind of silly games of endless tit-for-tat and "but they did it first" arguments that just push ever-further into a situation where each party tries to prevent the other party from achieving anything while consolidating their own power, and both sides have lost any right to complain about the other side being underhanded. Requirements for bipartisan approval for certain key appointments make sense but when both sides become more interested in obstructing the other than in actually getting anything done it's easy to see why they start to fall by the wayside. And as they do so the party in power has ever-fewer checks on what they can do.

As hedrick said a few posts back, there needs to be a real sense that people in more rural communities are being listened to and taken seriously. Having lived in very rural areas and in big cities the huge differences in lifestyles are very apparent. Things that work in very urban areas (where many of the more vocal liberals hail from) simply don't work in the country. Country living is much more self-sufficient, by its very nature because people are more spread out and provision of central services just doesn't work as well. That makes it easy to see why country dwellers start to resent city dwellers - to give just one example I see cities with publicly funded fire companies while my local fire company is run by volunteers and local donations. In other words my taxes fund someone else's fire protection but if I want fire protection I have to pay again to keep the local fire company operating.

When I'm out walking/hiking I typically carry a weapon of some kind. My primary concern isn't aggressive humans, more the potential to encounter an aggressive dog/bear/rabid raccoon or similar. Of course if I were to encounter an aggressive human the weapon would be equally effective against them. I really don't care to be told by some urbanite that I don't need a weapon because I can call the police. Firstly, I can't call the police if there's no cellphone service and in any event when the nearest police station is a 45 minute drive away it's hard to see a police response to an emergency situation being very useful. Where I lived in the city the police station was a 5 minute walk away, which changes the dynamic completely. Likewise, when I'm hiking in the woods I carry things like a folding saw so I can clear fallen branches if I need to. That saw could be used to cause horrendous injuries, if used as a weapon. Prohibiting the carrying of a saw like this (as would be the case in countries with sillier weapon control laws, like the UK) doesn't make people any safer but does make hiking more exposed to problems. As a law-abiding hiker taking my saw away isn't going to make other hikers any safer but does potentially put me in danger if I find an impassable obstacle and have to retrace my steps, leaving me out in the woods after dark because I wasn't expecting to lose hours of time retracing and rerouting. Perhaps when walking along a city street you don't need a folding saw, but in my part of the world it has come in very handy on multiple occasions. Needless to say the criminal element ignores the rules, as is frequently evident in inner-city Chicago, Baltimore etc.

One problem that seems to be very common among politicians of all stripes and all flavors is the sense that they know best. Since the country was founded on the concept of personal liberty it seems to me that liberty should be protected unless there are very compelling reasons to restrict it, and the inherent assumption is that all things should be allowed unless there is a very clear reason to prohibit it. At the same time the government should be reined in unless there is a very clear and compelling reason to permit government involvement in something. If nothing else it offers more protection to the 48% of the population who don't want to be ruled over by the 52%. In the analogy that likens democracy to two wolves and a sheep voting on who is for dinner, any system that governs the people must focus on protecting the sheep more than granting the wolves their wish.
 
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ImaginaryDay2

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Aren't we trying to talk about how Unity is to be done? How does what you say bring up any type of relief to say.... WELL YOU SAID THIS FOR 8 YEARS.

How does what you say relieve Biden from responsibility for his own words and how that isn't going to bring unity? Do you see what I'm saying. People need to start being responsible and not constantly do the "but they said it first" which is part of some of the same type of flaming issues we have had here for 5 years on CH! We have people who feel insulted and then flame and then instead of taking responsibility for their own words they place blame on the other guy.

So please don't say that Biden should mistreat Americans because there were some people who mistreated Obama. That doesn't fly.
It seems the opposite of the "but they said it first..." is the "yeah, but they (insert name here) also... for which they need to be accountable". I was, sadly, unable to vote as I did not receive my ballot as requested. I would have had fewer issues voting the Democratic ticket this go-'round as Biden seems to have interests of both sides more in mind (leaving aside Kamala Harris for the moment, about whom I have other opinions).

The point is that a number of things have been said by Presidents and politicians that have raised the ire of the populace before, and they will for aeons to come.
"Mr. Gorbachev, Tear down this wall!" - a powerful statement at the time, to which Mr. Gorbachev sarcastically responded "well, Reagan was a Hollywood actor..."
 
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