Unresolvable Contradictions from a literal Rich Man and Lazarus

[hobie]

This is a excellent analysis of the problem if it was literal of the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus.

BY CORRECTLY CONCLUDING that the story of Rich Man and Lazarus is a parable, we maintain Scriptural harmony, discern a valuable lesson from its interpretation, and put an end to its illegitimate use as a "proof text" for the doctrine of Eternal Torment - because any Bible scholar worth his salt knows we can't substantiate a doctrine on an uninterpreted parable. Here are 14 irresolvable contradictions which result from attempts to make the passage literal:

1. DISEMBODIED BODIES?
The Eternal Torment crowd claims when a person dies his body is buried, but “his disembodied soul" leaves this world to points beyond without a body - so, why do the Rich Man, Lazarus, and Abraham have eyes, fingers, tongues, bosoms, legs to carry a warning, etc.? Obviously, "disembodied souls" by definition do not have bodies, and thus can't have eyes, tongues, fingers, bosoms, etc.

Now, before anyone jumps to any conclusions, we need to remember that 2 Corinthians 5:1 KJV plainly identifies only two types of bodies - the mortal and the resurrection - and that's the only two types of bodies God's Bible knows about. There's no mention in Scripture of any third type “interim body” for the dead prior to the resurrection, so extra-Biblical ideas about a "disembodied body" or "ghost body" or "temporary body" are pure fiction and warrant no consideration whatsoever.

2. ABRAHAM'S LITERAL BOSOM?
Lazarus was carried “into Abraham's bosom" - are we to believe all the righteous dead up until that time have been carried into Abraham's literal bosom? How big can Abraham's bosom be?

Now, those who claim “Abraham's Bosom” is a literal, actual name for “heaven” or “paradise” need to read Luke 16:23 KJV which says the Rich Man sees Abraham afar off and Lazarus "in his bosom” - in the bosom of the man himself - which is physiological, not geographical.

3. LYING EYES?
The Rich Man is able to see “Abraham afar off and Lazarus in his bosom” aka “place of comfort” aka “the kingdom” - but Jesus Himself said the wicked won't see the righteous in the kingdom until the end, in the Judgment, when the wicked are told to “depart”. Yet, here we find Lazarus and Abraham in full view of the Rich Man.

Now, for those who claim these dead guys are actually in some supposed “holding chamber” next door to hell called “paradise” (now that we've seen “Abraham's Bosom” is a purely fictitious place), we must remember that “paradise” is easily shown from the Scriptures themselves to be where God is up there, not anywhere near hell down here.

4. THE DEAD KNOW NOT ANYTHING
(Ecclesiastes 9:5 KJV; Job 14:21 KJV; Psalm 146:4 KJV)

These dead guys sure seem to know a whole lot for people who aren't supposed to know anything.

5. THE DEAD DON'T REMEMBER ANYTHING
(Psalms 6:5 KJV; Ecclesiastes 9:5 KJV; Psalms 88:12 KJV)

These dead guys are sure able to remember a whole lot for people who aren't supposed to remember anything.

6. THE DEAD DON'T HAVE EMOTIONS
(Ecclesiastes 9:6 KJV; Proverbs 10:28 KJV)

These dead guys do a great job of demonstrating loving concern and also condescending disdain for people who aren't supposed to be able to have emotions.

7. THE DEAD DON'T PERFORM WORK
(Ecclesiastes 9:10 KJV; John 9:4 KJV)

The dead Rich Man mustn't have gotten the memo that Lazarus had finished his shift and clocked out - permanently.

8. THE DEAD DON'T DEVISE ANYTHING
(Ecclesiastes 9:10 KJV)

The dead Rich Man was well able to devise a plan to warn his brothers for someone unable to do so.

9. THE DEAD DON'T HAVE WISDOM
(Ecclesiastes 9:10 KJV; Proverbs 2:6 KJV)

Dead Abraham was well able give wise testimony about the convicting power of the Word of God for someone unable to do so.

10. THE DEAD DON'T PRAISE GOD
(Isaiah 38:18 KJV; Psalms 115:17 KJV; Psalms 88:11 KJV)

Dead Abraham sure spoke highly of God's Word for someone unable to do so.

11. THE DEAD ARE IN DARKNESS
(Psalms 88:12 KJV; Job 10:21-22 KJV)

These dead guys must all have been wearing night vision goggles to see through all that darkness.

12. THE DEAD ARE IN SILENCE
(Psalms 115:17 KJV; Psalm 31:17 KJV)

These dead guys were loud enough to wake the rest of the dead what with all that shouting back and forth at each other across that great gulf.

13. THE DEAD ARE ASLEEP
(Psalms 13:3 KJV; Ephesians 5:14 KJV; John 11:11-14 KJV)

These dead guys are fully awake and aware of their surroundings, especially the thirsty guy whose completely engulfed in flames of torment.

14. THE DEAD ARE RESERVED FOR FUTURE TORMENT
(2 Peter 2:9 KJV; Revelation 20:10 KJV)

The dead Rich Man must have been pretty bad to find himself immediately in flames of torment since God Himself says He's “reserved the unjust unto the day of Judgment to be punished”.

 

[SetFree]

Christ's story about Lazarus and the rich man in Luke 16 is NOT... a parable. Paradise in the heavenly realm is real.


Those who disagree with Jesus' story there of course are the blind Jews. One of the traditions the Jews have is 'soul sleep'. They believe our soul dies with our flesh body, and must be resurrected together. The New Testament Scriptures does not support that soul sleep view of traditional Judaism.

In Matthew 10:28, Lord Jesus told us to not fear those who can kill our flesh body, but NOT our soul. That means our soul continues on to God in heaven when our flesh body dies.

In 2 Corinthians 5, Apostle Paul taught that if our flesh house were dissolved, we still have another body not made with hands (i.e., non-matter), from God, eternal in the heavens.

In Ecclesiastes 12:5-7, when our flesh dies our "silver cord" is loosed, and our flesh goes back to the ground where it came from, but our spirit goes back to God Who gave it. Our spirit part and soul are attached together, and that is how Lord Jesus after His resurrection went and preached The Gospel to the "spirits in prison", which is about those who died back to the time of Noah. That was prophecy per Isaiah 42:7 that Jesus would do that, and free the prisoners out of Satan's prison house that believed. And in 1 Peter 4, Peter said the Gospel was preached also to the dead, so they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

 

[hobie]

Need to understand what Gods Word lays out, so you see Christ was giving just a parable. We must grasp what the Bible shows, that man does not have a 'immortal' soul as scripture makes that clear..

Ezekiel 18:4 - Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Ezekiel 18:20 - The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Revelation 16:3 - And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
Genesis 3:19 - In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Ecclesiastes 3:19-20 - For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

But what about the “spirit”? Does it remain conscious even after the death of the body as many believe so, and they even try to justify their view by saying it look at Ecclesiastes 12:7 which says it goes up to God so it must be living or immortal part of us.
Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Well the problem is this statement does not suggest that the spirit of the dead remains conscious in God’s presence or that man is immortal. What Ecclesiastes 12:7 refers to in death is the reversal of the creation process where God gave the breath of life and man came alive.

Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

So what is the 'spirit' that returns to God, is it living entity and floating on the clouds looking back down on earth. Well, there's a problem if one looks closely, it does not differentiate between the good people or the wicked, so essentially it opens the door to sinners going to heaven, and clearly that doesnt happen. So what is the 'spirit', it is the breath of life that God breathed into the nostrils of Adam, and that He has also provided to all other human beings is what returns to God or, in other words, simply stops flowing into and through them. In ancient times, all man knew was if you stopped breathing you were dead, and this was considered given of God as how could you explain what amazes us even today when people revive after drowning or other shock.

Now another thing is that its not just human beings that die this way but all the animals, and no one is going to say all the animals are taken to heaven, thats not supported in scripture. If the alleged spirits of all who die survive as conscious entities in the presence of God, then are the spirits of the wicked with God, of course not. This is not in harmony with the overall teaching of the scriptures, as only the saints will be there, not sinners. Because the same dying process happens both to human beings and to animals death is nothing else than ceasing to exist as living beings.

But what about Steven when he died some may say, what does that mean..
Acts 7:59
And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

Well as we see, the body plus the breath of life produced a living soul. The word for "breath" in Genesis 2:7 is neshamah in the Hebrew original and pnoe in the Greek translation and the words mean "breath, wind." The breath that God breathed into the inanimate body gave it life and we see this same breath of life is spoken of in Job 33:4, "The spirit [ruach] of God has made me, and the breath [neshamah] of the Almighty gives me life." The breath of life (neshamah) is, therefore, the spirit (ruach) that God breathed into Adam's nostrils. The word ruach means "breath, spirit, wind."

We see this more in Job. 27:3 when Job in referring to himself during life says, ". . . as long as my breath [neshamah] is in me and the spirit [ruach] of God is in my nostrils. . . ." (Job. 27:3). Once again the "breath" and the "spirit" are identified. When this spirit or breath returns to God the individual dies and awaits God to restore life at the resurrection. We see the same thought Psalms 146:4 when David described what happens to man in death that when their breath [ruach = spirit] departs, they return to the earth or the grave and on 'that very day their thoughts perish.
Psalm 146:4
His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

So no thoughts or what makes one who he is continue. Now compare the description of death as given in Ecclesiastes 12:7: "Then shall the dust [body] return to the earth as it was: and the spirit [ruach = breath] shall return unto God who gave it" . This simply reverses the process as described in Genesis 2:7. So now we see God takes the life force back to himself and the dead body disintegrates. The "spirit" or "breath" that goes back to God is not some kind of conscious part of us that separates from the body at death, it simply is what animates us, same as the beasts in the field. Look what it has in Ecclesiates 3:19-20, "For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath [ruach = spirit]; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast [in this respect]: for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again

Ecclesiastes 3:19-20
19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. 20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

So lets take a look at one more verse, which was when Christ died, and go over it...
Luke 23:46
And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Now did Christ go up to the Father that day, lets look and from what He declared..
John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Jesus and Stephen were committing their "spirit" or life force to God. They knew that they were about to die or dying. The life that came from God was being taken from them. The day Jesus died His human "spirit," "breath," or life force went back to God, but He certainly did not go to heaven as a conscious being that Friday afternoon, and all Christians should believe in His resurrection. Also, Stephen did not ascend to heaven when the life force was taken from him, and he will wait in the grave as dust until the saints are raised at the resurrection.