Trying to find the right church

RCastle

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How can you know if the church you are sitting in is teaching the faith authentically? ive been searching my whole life and im feeling like ists not gonna happen for me ...im not a cafeteria christian but i am serious about my faith and i dont want to be mislead or looked down at for my zeal.



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Tigger

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Every church and/or denomination has been instrumental in my growth as a Christian. Never stop searching and studying, you'll never know all there is and if you did it wouldn't be the creator that you found.
 

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How can you know if the church you are sitting in is teaching the faith authentically? ive been searching my whole life and im feeling like ists not gonna happen for me ...im not a cafeteria christian but i am serious about my faith and i dont want to be mislead or looked down at for my zeal.



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In order to "know" that a church teaches the authentic faith - wouldn't you already have to have some idea of what this is and why?

If not, then how would you determine it?

Even if you found a church that matches the idea, don't expect it to be perfect. Even in teaching. People who get paid to teach/preach are not immune to their congregation's whims, and to other social pressure and influences. That isn't to make any single negative judgement about a particular individual - only to say - the monetary influence is often a corrupting influence.

This is one thing I like about Didache - in principle, at least. There are no paid clergy - or prophets.
 

MoreCoffee

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How can you know if the church you are sitting in is teaching the faith authentically? ive been searching my whole life and im feeling like ists not gonna happen for me ...im not a cafeteria christian but i am serious about my faith and i dont want to be mislead or looked down at for my zeal.

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For me the matter is not very difficult. If the church is Catholic and if the liturgy is followed then the holy scriptures are read and the gospel is preached in the prayers regardless of the quality and content of the homily.
 

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How can you know if the church you are sitting in is teaching the faith authentically? ive been searching my whole life and im feeling like ists not gonna happen for me ...im not a cafeteria christian but i am serious about my faith and i dont want to be mislead or looked down at for my zeal.



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Welcome to the forum! :)

I think if you're questioning the church you're attending then you're also questioning your own beliefs.

There was a point in my life when I was going to leave the Lutheran church because it was just too simple that Jesus paid the price for us and we had to do nothing. I decided I needed to know more and read the bible again from cover to cover in a relatively short amount of time. I found that Jesus did do it all and we do nothing in our salvation. I was drawn back to the Lutheran church because I saw how it was biblically correct and after exploring what other denominations believed I saw flaws.

Now as for you, what do you believe? Do you believe you contribute to your salvation? Do you believe that God is at work in baptism? Do you believe in the real presence in Holy Communion? These are questions that you have to answer to see which church you will attend.
 

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No church is going to teach the faith 100% authentically, even Sir MoreCoffee's Roman Catholic Church ... and my Anglican Church (God save the Queen and all that), but we're ever so slightly better. ;) All are flawed in one way or another due to the human failings of their leadership and adherents. (In MoreCoffee's case, just take one look at the adherent. Teehee.) However, if the church you attend is teaching and living the message of Jesus to the best of its ability, then I think you're pretty safe. For me, I kind of use Jesus' Sermon on the Mount and his wee tale about the sheep and the goats as my litmus test, since they pretty much sum up what it is to be a Christian.

Oh, and I really dislike the term "cafeteria Christian". Every Christian is one to some degree. The term is used derogatorily, especially by fundamentalists, to denigrate those who don't eat at their cafe, or if he or she dare to go there, the poor wretch doesn't clean the plate of everything, including the awful, gristly bits of meat and wilted, rusty lettuce that is served ... but mainly the condiments, since those are so important.

Don't expect perfection. Find a church that doesn't offend your core sensibilities of what it means to follow Jesus. The rest is just frosting on the cake anyway. (If you're so picky about the flavour of the cake that you won't eat anything but chocolate, then the problem may be more you than the bakery, however.)
 

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The Holy Spirit will let you know what is true and teach you, as for churchs none have 100 percent right so just find one thta is as close to the truth as possible and keep studying so you will not be decieved. There are many traditions of men that do not line up with scripture so beware of these.
 

Josiah

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How can you know if the church you are sitting in is teaching the faith authentically? ive been searching my whole life and im feeling like ists not gonna happen for me ...im not a cafeteria christian but i am serious about my faith and i dont want to be mislead or looked down at for my zeal.


Good to have you here! And thanks for starting this good thread!



To your question: I largely agree with Tigger, Lamm and IACOBVS above....


Your faith icon states that you are agnostic. If that's accurate, I'd suggest the Unitarian Universalist Association which is largely agnostic but has all the "trappings" of a church; it feels "churchy" but lacks any theology but in stead embraces each persons' individual quest for "spirituality" (even in a purely materialistic world where there may well be no divine). If there is no UUA church nearby, you might find a liberal Methodist church which although technically is quite tradition, it welcomes "free thinking" and those that don't accept its traditional statements of faith (some Congregational UCC churches do, as well).


For me, it's "where the Word is rightly taught and the Sacraments are rightly administered." I looked for a church where the theology is simple, biblical and historic - in line with historic Christianity, the ancient ecumenical creeds, the ecumenical councils. And void of the MANDATED DOGMAS that are late, unique to one denomination and biblically problematic (such as an INFALLIBLE denominational bishop from Rome, the DOGMA of Purgatory, the DOGMA of Transubstantiation, etc.) - mandated DOGMAS that it is claimed one MUST accept or be at risk of hell, ones unique to a single denomination, ones very late in development, ones declared to be DOGMA - matters of highest importance and certainty and mandate to accept. And to me, it's important to have a church where there is humility (an embrace of MYSTERY), community and accountability rather than the OBSESSION some denomintions have on the power, authority, rulership of it itself and how it itself uniquely is unaccountable and infallible. I like to keep it traditional/historic, biblical, simple and humble. I left Catholicism and associated with Lutheranism.



Blessings!


- Josiah
 

tango

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How can you know if the church you are sitting in is teaching the faith authentically? ive been searching my whole life and im feeling like ists not gonna happen for me ...im not a cafeteria christian but i am serious about my faith and i dont want to be mislead or looked down at for my zeal.

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I've gone through the church hunt a couple of times. The first time was easy, I kinda landed in a church five minutes walk from home and stayed there for a little over 7 years. Still have lots of good friends there, the only reason I left the church is because I moved away from the area.

The second church hunt was nearly disastrous, I found a church that seemed OK at first but was into all sorts of weird and wonderful things. They believed they could declare this and decree that (based on a twisted reading of Scripture) but couldn't pay their bills and the congregation never seemed to grow (in number or in wisdom). When I left that church a friend who still attended said the church was "very needy". At my previous church there were always a few people who were needy in some way - with a regular attendance of maybe 200 it's inevitable that some in a group that size are sick, facing redundancy, bereaved, whatever. But where some were weak there were others who were strong, and those who were weak didn't usually stay weak. In this other church it seemed the entire congregation was permanently needy. As far as I could tell people weren't growing as Christians, the congregation wasn't growing, the church struggled to pay its bills, yet they continued to decree themselves prosperous. When I queried some of the issues I couldn't reconcile with my understanding of Scripture nobody could justify it - the minister became adept at dodging questions, one of the council members simply stopped talking to me, and another council member came up with a feeble defense but despite asking (perfectly reasonably) for more time to think about what I had put to him never got back to me with an answer.

The church I moved on to from there has a few things about it that I don't particularly care for. But the things I'm not thrilled about are purely matters of personal preference - the things that are important is that the Bible is preached and preached accurately (it's easy enough to pull verses out of context to justify all sorts of things it doesn't actually justify but if we're going to do that we might as well chuck our Bibles in the trash because we're not about following Jesus any more).

A few general thoughts on things that should raise huge red flags:

If God is demoted to becoming little more than a servant of man, run away. This might not be put quite as bluntly as this but anything that involves claiming this and decreeing that is probably turning God into little more than an errand boy. If prayer is presented as little more than a process where you put in the prayers, pull the lever and the cosmic vending machine spits out exactly what you wanted when you wanted, that's not a good sign.

If Jesus is demoted to being simply an anointed one rather than the Messiah, run away. Again this might be subtle, it might come couched in all sorts of terms about "Christ anointing" or similar. It may follow a line of reasoning that starts (correctly) by pointing out that Christ is a title but then turns down a dark alleyway as it claims we can have the same anointing. This subtly rewrites by implication the beginning of John's gospel to read "and the Word was a god".

If there's lots of focus on the Holy Spirit rather than Jesus, be careful. Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would glorify him, and too much focus on the Holy Spirit can easily become like going to a magnificent monument and spending time admiring the lights that illuminate it, rather than the monument itself. If there's endless talk of spiritual gifts but no evidence of spiritual fruit, be careful.

There are all sorts of things that I'd like to see in a church but as long as what's critical is there I can look past quite a lot of personal preference. For example my current church is an older demographic than I'd normally choose but they follow Scripture, they do what Jesus said and they stay faithful to the Scriptures. I can look past the fact about half the church are my parents' age.
 

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If God is demoted to becoming little more than a servant of man, run away. This might not be put quite as bluntly as this but anything that involves claiming this and decreeing that is probably turning God into little more than an errand boy. If prayer is presented as little more than a process where you put in the prayers, pull the lever and the cosmic vending machine spits out exactly what you wanted when you wanted, that's not a good sign.

I didn't want to infer agreement or disagreement with the rest of your quote - but this stuck out to me and I was thinking about it just last night/this morning.

Couldn't agree more. Out of all the churches I have attended in my life the one that left the worst taste in my mouth and made God seem to be so unreal was the one where the pastor was a true "holy roller" who loved to "lord it over" his church - not in service or humility but arrogance. He also treated God as his personal servant for petty concerns - such as clearing a path when stuck in traffic. It wasn't a request or even remotely petitionary in nature - it was barked as a command and described as evidence of faith. Ugh.
 

Josiah

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A few general thoughts on things that should raise huge red flags:

If God is demoted to becoming little more than a servant of man, run away. This might not be put quite as bluntly as this but anything that involves claiming this and decreeing that is probably turning God into little more than an errand boy. If prayer is presented as little more than a process where you put in the prayers, pull the lever and the cosmic vending machine spits out exactly what you wanted when you wanted, that's not a good sign.


Good point!


My # 1 issue would be: Who is Jesus? If Jesus is ANYTHING other than THE SAVIOR - run, don't walk, run! Too often, Jesus is just a HELPER or a POSSIBILITY MAKER or PET (who rolls over when told to do so) or a giant ATM machine..... lots of things that mean He's not the (one, only, all-sufficient) Savior. Watch out for "Jesus is the Savior BUT you gotta......" (which is a contradiction). Watch out for "hoop jumping Christians" who throw up HELL as the warning and HEAVEN as the prize IF, you only IF, you perform X,Y,Z (and do it GOOD ENOUGH, though no one will say what GOOD ENOUGH is). The Number One thing I've come to appreciate and stress since my conversion is the importance of the Gospel, and how even slight messing with it destroys Christianity. Nothing matters more.



If Jesus is demoted to being simply an anointed one rather than the Messiah, run away. Again this might be subtle, it might come couched in all sorts of terms about "Christ anointing" or similar. It may follow a line of reasoning that starts (correctly) by pointing out that Christ is a title but then turns down a dark alleyway as it claims we can have the same anointing. This subtly rewrites by implication the beginning of John's gospel to read "and the Word was a god".


Yup.


JESUS is the point. JESUS is the Savior. JESUS is the Lord. When you hear more about the denomination, more about the parish, more about pop psychology, more about the pastor/priest/pope..... run, don't walk, run.

I remember when I was a boy, the "sermon" was often just a chain of claims and promotions about the denomination. So much so that I began referring to the sermon as "commercial time" - it was ultimately about promoting, protecting, defending, praising the denomination.




If there's lots of focus on the Holy Spirit rather than Jesus, be careful. Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would glorify him, and too much focus on the Holy Spirit can easily become like going to a magnificent monument and spending time admiring the lights that illuminate it, rather than the monument itself. If there's endless talk of spiritual gifts but no evidence of spiritual fruit, be careful.


Exactly!


The Holy Spirit desires one thing: Jesus to be lifted high, Jesus to be believed and followed. Nothing disappoints the Holy Spirit more than for Him to be the focus.




There are all sorts of things that I'd like to see in a church but as long as what's critical is there I can look past quite a lot of personal preference. For example my current church is an older demographic than I'd normally choose but they follow Scripture, they do what Jesus said and they stay faithful to the Scriptures. I can look past the fact about half the church are my parents' age.


Amen!

When I joined my Lutheran parish, I was still single and a "young professional." My parish socially is a total mis-match. It's very small (we worship in the 50's), many are my parent's age, there was not one single female remotely my age. The fellowship activities all seemed designed around "empty-nester" seniors. BUT..... it's where I found sound teaching, good worship, and an obvious spirit of love, humility, community and service. I liked that Jesus is lifted high - not the pastor and not the denomination (I think I went to the church for at least 2 years before I heard the word "Lutheran" during a worship service).

My older brother now attends a HUGE mega church. LOTS of fun stuff (they have a Starbucks on the church campus), LOTS of social stuff for all ages and interests (even its own theatre companies - several of them), more pastors than you can count and a STAR for the "lead pastor." Celebs belong there, celebs come as special guests (football players, actors, etc.). The worship is ...... LOUD (that's my only adjective I have for it, but obviously thousands love it). My church worships in the 50's, his in the THOUSANDS - with only about half that actually fit in the HUGE "worship center", the rest in a variety of venues with the service shown on a big screen TV). But there is no theology. I can't say it's bad theology because there is no theology; it's less than "Christianity-Light". LOTS of fun "one-liners" that sound good but when you think about it.... My bro says it's "inspirational" and "uplifting." Okay. Is THAT the purpose of Christianity? Is it good for faith to be based on weekly emotional highs instead of on Jesus? To quote a hymn my bro's church would NEVER sing, "On CHRIST the solid rock I stand, all other ground is sinking sand."


No, there is no perfect church because there are no perfect people and no perfect family. The key is to make YOU as good of a Christian as possible, focus on the only one you can change - YOU. Instead of looking for a perfect church family, look for where Christ is Savior, where they lift high the Cross, where sound teaching is the point rather than emotional highs or guilt trips or power ploys or ego trips. Then get involved..... make the grass greener.



Soli Deo Gloria



- Josiah
 

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Josiah, your post made me think of this...Do you want a Christian experience or do you want a Savior? Now, some people will balk at that saying but where is their focus?
 

tango

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My older brother now attends a HUGE mega church. LOTS of fun stuff (they have a Starbucks on the church campus), LOTS of social stuff for all ages and interests (even its own theatre companies - several of them), more pastors than you can count and a STAR for the "lead pastor." Celebs belong there, celebs come as special guests (football players, actors, etc.). The worship is ...... LOUD (that's my only adjective I have for it, but obviously thousands love it). My church worships in the 50's, his in the THOUSANDS - with only about half that actually fit in the HUGE "worship center", the rest in a variety of venues with the service shown on a big screen TV). But there is no theology. I can't say it's bad theology because there is no theology; it's less than "Christianity-Light". LOTS of fun "one-liners" that sound good but when you think about it.... My bro says it's "inspirational" and "uplifting." Okay. Is THAT the purpose of Christianity? Is it good for faith to be based on weekly emotional highs instead of on Jesus? To quote a hymn my bro's church would NEVER sing, "On CHRIST the solid rock I stand, all other ground is sinking sand."

Interesting you should mention that. Years ago (when I was not only not a Christian but was still broadly hostile to anything that looked like organised religion) I had a friend who went to a mega-church. He showed me round it one day and it felt more like a conference center than a church. Rooms here and there, a huge auditorium, it looked like I'd expect a university faculty building to look. They had a senior pastor, some number of other pastors, youth pastors etc. He was very proud of the fact that the senior pastor had platinum flyer status with multiple airlines because he spent so much time traveling. I could only wonder how a senior pastor who had earned platinum flyer status multiple times could have the time to care for his flock. The answer became clear later. My friend was always involved with the church, which usually took the form of giving his time and his talents to the church for free. He gave an awful lot of rides to and from airports to the senior pastor and his family (somehow these places so often seem dynastical). Sadly when he needed a ride the silence was deafening and he ended up taking the bus. When he was in need not one person from the church was there when he needed them, in fact from a few things he said I think most of the church didn't even notice his absence.

In contrast shortly before I started attending my current church one of the members was involved in a very nasty accident and needed a huge amount of help. I was aware of lots of words said and prayers offered about provision for the person but at that time knew nothing of the situation. Having been there a while now and knowing who the person is and exactly what happened, it's truly remarkable how a congregation of maybe 100 rallied round that person and their family to make sure they were provided for. I remember the church I left when I moved, where a particular person had a need and the minister cleared his diary for the day to make sure that person was OK.

I'm often reminded of a graphic I saw years ago that showed a couple of young people set in a huge crowd, hands in the air, shouting over the music. One said to the other something like "I love the music at your church. Who is this Jesus they talk about?" and the other replied "I don't know, they mention him a lot but I don't know who he is". That's not to say loud music can't be pleasing to God but it's hard to see how lots of people just having a jolly good sing-song that happens to mention Jesus are doing much of value.
 

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How can you know if the church you are sitting in is teaching the faith authentically? ive been searching my whole life and im feeling like ists not gonna happen for me ...im not a cafeteria christian but i am serious about my faith and i dont want to be mislead or looked down at for my zeal.



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What are you using to test what your being taught if it ain't the Holy Bible then cuz, I mean, what kind of church are you in now if you don't feel that are in the right one?
 

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I doubt any one church fellowship is going to meet all your needs. Personally, while I attend a church I also listen to several other pastors using apps on my phone during the work week and study the Bible on my own. I am not going to rely on others to feed me spiritually, but read and study on my own with the aid of bible study tools and commentaries, handbooks and other text
 

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How can you know if the church you are sitting in is teaching the faith authentically? ive been searching my whole life and im feeling like ists not gonna happen for me ...im not a cafeteria christian but i am serious about my faith and i dont want to be mislead or looked down at for my zeal.



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How can you know if the church you are sitting in is teaching the faith authentically? If I were to ask 10 different Christians if their church taught correctly what true faith is about then you know what answers I would get back? I would get back 10 Christians who believe that their church teaches what Jesus taught and without saying it they imply that other churches are wrong in what they believe and you will find that as well on any forum with evidence by their strong responses that condemn what they don't believe.

Your searching your entire life has led you to feel that the churches you have visited are inadequate, and that might be true, but how many different ones have you been to and where have they failed you?
 

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How can you know if the church you are sitting in is teaching the faith authentically? If I were to ask 10 different Christians if their church taught correctly what true faith is about then you know what answers I would get back? I would get back 10 Christians who believe that their church teaches what Jesus taught and without saying it they imply that other churches are wrong in what they believe and you will find that as well on any forum with evidence by their strong responses that condemn what they don't believe.

Your searching your entire life has led you to feel that the churches you have visited are inadequate, and that might be true, but how many different ones have you been to and where have they failed you?

But you must know that the moment anybody proclaims that they know that this or that teaching is wrong they set themselves up as rejecting untruth and lies because they know or at least have a feeling for what is true and good. Even if a person does not claim that their denomination, church, meeting or whatever is right and teaches the truth they nevertheless make an implied claim to knowing the difference for themselves. There's no escaping this tendency to make judgements so one might as well make judgements that one is prepared to live with and not change from year to year or month to month.
 

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But you must know that the moment anybody proclaims that they know that this or that teaching is wrong they set themselves up as rejecting untruth and lies because they know or at least have a feeling for what is true and good. Even if a person does not claim that their denomination, church, meeting or whatever is right and teaches the truth they nevertheless make an implied claim to knowing the difference for themselves. There's no escaping this tendency to make judgements so one might as well make judgements that one is prepared to live with and not change from year to year or month to month.

Right. In the end we need to make some attempt to assess truth claims.

You have to start with asking how you decide. You've got four major options:

* traditional interpretations going back to the early church
* interpretations guided by various Protestant traditions, starting with 16th Cent confessions
* interpretations guided by recent scholarship based at least in part on Enlightenment principles
* interpretations based on your pastor's ideas

There are also differences in how much variation is allowed. I prefer denominations that allow several of those approaches (preferably the middle two).
 
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Right. In the end we need to make some attempt to assess truth claims.

You have to start with asking how you decide. You've got four major options:
  • traditional interpretations going back to the early church
  • interpretations guided by various Protestant traditions, starting with 16th Cent confessions
  • interpretations guided by recent scholarship based at least in part on Enlightenment principles
  • interpretations based on your pastor's ideas
There are also differences in how much variation is allowed. I prefer denominations that allow several of those approaches (preferably the middle two).

There is a principle that I put above the ones in the list. If whatever teaching you receive inclines you towards treating other people badly then stop following that inclination. If that necessitates rejecting the teaching then reject it.
 

hedrick

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There is a principle that I put above the ones in the list. If whatever teaching you receive inclines you towards treating other people badly then stop following that inclination. If that necessitates rejecting the teaching then reject it.

Yes.
 
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