The Supernatural

[Lamb]

How do we reconcile some things supernatural to our beliefs?

I personally do not believe in ghosts but I do know that demons like to deceive us. What prevents a demon from pretending to be a loved one? Doesn't it try to sway us from thinking that the believers are really not with God but stuck here on Earth?

 

[Brighten04]

Well, our Father is supernatural. Jesus performed supernatural acts and then told His believers that the things He was doing that they would do also and greater things would they do. The believers in the first church performed supernatural acts. But there is a lot of unbelief in the Body of Christ today and the gospel (Good News) has been watered down so much that it is of no effect. The big lie that I heard all of my early Christian life that all the gifts of the Holy Spirit ceased when the laaaast apostle died stripped the Church of Her power, and essentially increased the devil's power. As I got older and started to wonder about these things, I was told another lie, that only certain preachers could do these things. I believed that for a long time. But, I wasn't a dogmatic student of the Word as I am today. When I finally committed myself to to studying and believing what God said in His word, my supernatural gifts of the Holy Spirit began to manifest and flourish. My 2 pennies.

 

[Brighten04]

How do we reconcile some things supernatural to our beliefs?

I personally do not believe in ghosts but I do know that demons like to deceive us. What prevents a demon from pretending to be a loved one? Doesn't it try to sway us from thinking that the believers are really not with God but stuck here on Earth?

Nothing prevents the devil from trying to deceive. You have to know and tell it to go in the name if Jesus.

 

[Josiah]

How do we reconcile some things supernatural to our beliefs?

I personally do not believe in ghosts but I do know that demons like to deceive us. What prevents a demon from pretending to be a loved one? Doesn't it try to sway us from thinking that the believers are really not with God but stuck here on Earth?

I think there is MUCH that is real that isn't understood, and probably a LOT that is beyond the scope of physics as currently understood. Some of what we've come to know as real seems less real than a lot of fiction (black holes, for example).

I don't believe in ghosts - but yes, there are demons and I agree with you Kathy it's at least POSSIBLE that SOME things attributed to ghosts may be demons. I don't know. I read once that grieving people sometimes "hear" or "see" their loved one, a function of their mind, their grief - and the author theorized this is the source of the belief in the dead "lingering" in paraphysical ways (a fairly universal belief until very recently). I don't know.... WAY out of my field.

A lot of time, we're dealing with experience. And experience is HARD to deny or confirm. Young girls who see and hear Our Lady. Pentecostals who speak in tongues. Some preacher who had the Holy Spirit tell him or her something. Can any DISPROVE this? Can any PROVE this? Experience is always hard to deal with..... personally, I'm not quick to flat out deny it (God can do all things - and probably has) BUT I'm also hesitate to take it too seriously.


My less than half cent



Pax


- Josiah

 

[visionary]

How do we reconcile some things supernatural to our beliefs?

I personally do not believe in ghosts but I do know that demons like to deceive us. What prevents a demon from pretending to be a loved one? Doesn't it try to sway us from thinking that the believers are really not with God but stuck here on Earth?

The word "Subtle" comes to mind. First it gains your trust with things that you can nod your head to, then it invites you to accept more, which will include lies. Finally it get you caught up in the tangle web of deceit where it can get you defending its position because of pride, weakness, emotional attachments, fear, greed, etc. Entangled, you now work for him, and if you don't he will kill you or cause you to be killed. To be that caught up after knowing the truth, you will be unable to return to God. For you have now denied the work of the Holy Spirit to the point of blasphemy and are no longer under our Lord's protective wing. It is a very serious battle.

The battle for your soul is real. It can start as simple as a cigarette, thinking to yourself, that your love for God is more than the smoke inhaled into His Holy Temple.

 

[Stravinsk]

How do we reconcile some things supernatural to our beliefs?

I personally do not believe in ghosts but I do know that demons like to deceive us. What prevents a demon from pretending to be a loved one? Doesn't it try to sway us from thinking that the believers are really not with God but stuck here on Earth?

I'm just going to respond to the second question which seems to be the one guiding the first -

I really like the Seventh Day Adventist teaching on this. I think they do a good job of explaining the state of the dead from a biblical perspective. Of course, Luke's repenting thief on the cross and the response given to him (both Matt and John's versions have no repenting thief) throws a wrench into the works, but with some things I think one must make a choice based on the abundant teaching rather than what pulls at it.

 

[Lamb]

I'm just going to respond to the second question which seems to be the one guiding the first -

I really like the Seventh Day Adventist teaching on this. I think they do a good job of explaining the state of the dead from a biblical perspective. Of course, Luke's repenting thief on the cross and the response given to him (both Matt and John's versions have no repenting thief) throws a wrench into the works, but with some things I think one must make a choice based on the abundant teaching rather than what pulls at it.

What do they believe about it? I'm unfamiliar.

 

[Stravinsk]

What do they believe about it? I'm unfamiliar.

FYI, as a collective denomination, Adventists, so far as I can tell, are in line with most Christiandom believing the Cannon of the Bible as organized within the first few hundred years of the common era, the one operating in the Western world, anyway, is the complete and unadulterated Word of God. That is not something I personally believe, and I am not an Adventist in this respect nor do I believe in the Saturday Sabbath. I do believe that the Cannon of the Bible does contain many spiritual truths and I accept the OT Cannon as being inspired and accept some of the NT. That is *my* position, not their official position.

I mention this distinction because I don't want to confuse their beliefs as an organized denomination with my own particular beliefs regarding certain things. I doubt the purity of the Gospels of Mark and Luke - and by extension - Acts, written by Luke, as well as Paul's epistles and other things, as I've stated elsewhere, but as far as I know, the Adventists accept the Cannon we have as an organization and have no such overt issues.

As for beliefs regarding the state of the dead, best to get it from the horse's mouth, so to speak. I believe that they do make a fair case for it from a biblical perspective, utilizing more of Scripture (OT and some NT) to make their arguments.

I don't want to point to any one video or url, but google terms "state of the dead" + "Seventh Day Adventist". Doug Batchelor is a popular spokesperson for the Adventists, and is worth looking up on youtube as well with regards to this subject.

Briefly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh-day_Adventist_theology#Hell_and_the_state_of_the_dead

but if you're interested, a deeper study from their own literature is suggested.

 

[visionary]

The term "supernatural" has always bothered me because it sounds like it is out of the ordinary of God's realm. It is the natural order of angels to work and exist like lightning, vapors, without substance and be either good or evil. God gave all His creation the option to choose between good and evil. In angels, it manifests itself is attitudes, colors, desires, and objectives. Just because it is different from the realm we live in which is of substance [dust, earth, dirt, etc] and breath of God doesn't make it outside of natural order of things.

 

[visionary]

There is a difference between devils/demons and angels. Devils or demons are the spirit of the nephillium which doesn't die even after the nephilium's body does. In this they are different from the human spirit which the Lord has return from which it came. These nephillium spirits have no resting place so they wonder from place to place looking for a body to inhabit. They take on the person's traits and when they leave that body to wonder, people have run across what they think of as ghosts of the dead.

 

[visionary]

There is a major difference between demons and evil angels... and the Book of Enoch makes it very clear.. that their punishement is different too.

http://heavennet.net/writings/the-book-of-enoch/

8 And now, the giants, who are produced from the spirits and flesh, shall be called evil spirits upon 9 the earth, and on the earth shall be their dwelling. Evil spirits have proceeded from their bodies; because they are born from men and from the holy Watchers is their beginning and primal origin; 10 they shall be evil spirits on earth, and evil spirits shall they be called. [As for the spirits of heaven, in heaven shall be their dwelling, but as for the spirits of the earth which were born upon the earth, on the earth shall be their dwelling.] And the spirits of the giants afflict, oppress, destroy, attack, do battle, and work destruction on the earth, and cause trouble: they take no food, but nevertheless 12
hunger and thirst, and cause offences. And these spirits shall rise up against the children of men and against the women, because they have proceeded from them. 16 1 From the days of the slaughter and destruction and death of the giants, from the souls of whose flesh the spirits, having gone forth, shall destroy without incurring judgement --thus shall they destroy until the day of the consummation, the great judgement in which the age shall be 2 consummated, over the Watchers and the godless, yea, shall be wholly consummated." And now as to the watchers who have sent thee to intercede for them, who had been aforetime in heaven, (say 3 to them): "You have been in heaven, but all the mysteries had not yet been revealed to you, and you knew worthless ones, and these in the hardness of your hearts you have made known to the women, and through these mysteries women and men work much evil on earth." 4 Say to them therefore: "You have no peace."'

There is much more about them. .. but the difference between evil angels and demons is clear.

 

[Alithis]

FYI, as a collective denomination, Adventists, so far as I can tell, are in line with most Christiandom believing the Cannon of the Bible as organized within the first few hundred years of the common era, the one operating in the Western world, anyway, is the complete and unadulterated Word of God. That is not something I personally believe, and I am not an Adventist in this respect nor do I believe in the Saturday Sabbath. I do believe that the Cannon of the Bible does contain many spiritual truths and I accept the OT Cannon as being inspired and accept some of the NT. That is *my* position, not their official position.

I mention this distinction because I don't want to confuse their beliefs as an organized denomination with my own particular beliefs regarding certain things. I doubt the purity of the Gospels of Mark and Luke - and by extension - Acts, written by Luke, as well as Paul's epistles and other things, as I've stated elsewhere, but as far as I know, the Adventists accept the Cannon we have as an organization and have no such overt issues.

As for beliefs regarding the state of the dead, best to get it from the horse's mouth, so to speak. I believe that they do make a fair case for it from a biblical perspective, utilizing more of Scripture (OT and some NT) to make their arguments.

I don't want to point to any one video or url, but google terms "state of the dead" + "Seventh Day Adventist". Doug Batchelor is a popular spokesperson for the Adventists, and is worth looking up on youtube as well with regards to this subject.

Briefly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh-day_Adventist_theology#Hell_and_the_state_of_the_dead

but if you're interested, a deeper study from their own literature is suggested.

interesting --your an unbeleiver ..one who does not beleive one who chooses what they prefer to believe rather then beleives as an act of obedience ?
this replies to the question of what it is the sda claim to believe but it does not address the topic of Ghosts and supernatural..

ghost is merely another word for "spirit " . so are there spirits ?..YES the bible says so .we ourselves are spirits inhabiting a body to which we are intellectually and emotionally attached and entwined God IS SPIRIT and they who worship him must do so in spirit and in Truth .

 

[Stravinsk]

interesting --your an unbeleiver ..one who does not beleive one who chooses what they prefer to believe rather then beleives as an act of obedience ?
this replies to the question of what it is the sda claim to believe but it does not address the topic of Ghosts and supernatural..

I actually did answer the question regarding ghosts because I said I think the SDA position is the most tenable of the various beliefs based on the bible.

As for the more broad position as it relates to my identification as Deist rather than Christian - I choose the former term for various reasons but one of them is that the latter term "Christian" is usually identified and includes as part of it's definition the belief that the Cannon of the Bible (as used in the western world) is the complete and unadulterated Word of God. I do not believe that. That is a tradition of the church only, beginning with Catholic and adopted by most Protestants. Yeshua validated the cannon of what is called the "old testament", however He did not validate what we know as the New Testament. So while I do believe parts of the New Testament, I do so not based on Tradition, but on what I understand to be truthful and dismiss what pulls at that.

ghost is merely another word for "spirit " . so are there spirits ?..YES the bible says so .we ourselves are spirits inhabiting a body to which we are intellectually and emotionally attached and entwined God IS SPIRIT and they who worship him must do so in spirit and in Truth .

That definition is rather broad. Most people think of ghosts as spirits of once living humans who have died, having some sort of influence in the world and affairs of men. I refer to SDA position because again it has what I believe a more tenable answer to that.

 

[TurtleHare]

There is a difference between devils/demons and angels. Devils or demons are the spirit of the nephillium which doesn't die even after the nephilium's body does. In this they are different from the human spirit which the Lord has return from which it came. These nephillium spirits have no resting place so they wonder from place to place looking for a body to inhabit. They take on the person's traits and when they leave that body to wonder, people have run across what they think of as ghosts of the dead.

I agree with parts of what you have said here about it being demons instead of what people think of as ghosts, especially in regards to them taking on a person's traits. We cannot trust demons but people do when they go to mediums and ask to be connected to loved ones that they miss dearly and hope to interact with them but instead the demons deceive.