The papacy is the power prophesied by Daniel who was to 'think to change times and la

[ThreeAngels]

Prophecy declared that the papacy was to "think to change times and laws." Daniel 7:25. This work it was not slow to attempt. To afford converts from heathenism a substitute for the worship of idols, and thus to promote their nominal acceptance of Christianity, the adoration of images and relics was gradually introduced into the Christian worship. The decree of a general council finally established this system of idolatry. To complete the sacrilegious work, Rome presumed to expunge from the law of God the second commandment, forbidding image worship, and to divide the tenth commandment, in order to preserve the number.
The spirit of concession to paganism opened the way for a still further disregard of Heaven's authority. Satan, working through unconsecrated leaders of the church, tampered with the fourth commandment also, and essayed to set aside the ancient Sabbath, the day which God had blessed and sanctified (Genesis 2:2, 3), and in its stead to exalt the festival observed by the heathen as "the venerable day of the sun."

 

[Josiah]

I don't agree.

 

[Cassia]

Isn't Wednesday the only day not named after a heathen god?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Prophecy declared that the papacy

Did prophecy declare that the papacy .... I've checked 13 English bible translations and not one includes the word "papacy" nor do any contain "pope", "successor of saint Peter", "servant of the servants of God", "patriarch of the west" or any other title which is used to distinguish the bishop of Rome from any and all other bishops, even the title "bishop of Rome" is not explicitly used in the holy scriptures nor is it used implicitly in any of the old testament prophets' writings. You must either be using a bible that I do not have or you may be interpreting something written in Daniel to mean "papacy" despite there being no use of the word "papacy" in Daniel's writings.

was to "think to change times and laws." Daniel 7:25. This work it was not slow to attempt. To afford converts from heathenism a substitute for the worship of idols, and thus to promote their nominal acceptance of Christianity, the adoration of images and relics was gradually introduced into the Christian worship. The decree of a general council finally established this system of idolatry. To complete the sacrilegious work, Rome presumed to expunge from the law of God the second commandment, forbidding image worship, and to divide the tenth commandment, in order to preserve the number.
The spirit of concession to paganism opened the way for a still further disregard of Heaven's authority. Satan, working through unconsecrated leaders of the church, tampered with the fourth commandment also, and essayed to set aside the ancient Sabbath, the day which God had blessed and sanctified (Genesis 2:2, 3), and in its stead to exalt the festival observed by the heathen as "the venerable day of the sun."

 

[Josiah]

Did prophecy declare that the papacy .... I've checked 13 English bible translations and not one includes the word "papacy" not do any contain "pope", "successor of saint Peter", "servant of the servants of God", "patriarch of the west" or any other title which is used to distinguish the bishop of Rome from any and all other bishops, even the title "bishop of Rome" is not explicitly used in the holy scriptures nor is it used implicitly in any of the old testament prophets' writings. You must either be using a bible that I do not have or you may be interpreting something written in Daniel to mean "papacy" despite there being no use of the word "papacy" in Daniel's writings.

I agree. There is NOTHING in the Bible.... NOTHING at all, NOTHING whatsoever.... Old or New Testament. The remarkable claims of the singular, individual RC Denomination for it itself exclusively is entirely, wholly abiblical - NOTHING in the Bible to support such.

Now, personally, I think the claims that the specific office of the Papacy in the individual, singular RC Denomination is denounced in the Bible - I also find that baseless. I know many Protestants conclude that the leader of that singular Denomination is the "Anti-Christ" but I don't buy that, either. The RC Denomination and it's own bishop in the Diocese of Rome are both entirely, wholly, completely absent from the Bible - Old or New Testament - positive or negative. Just not there. At all.



Pax Christi


- Josiah




.

 

[Cassia]

Prophecy declared that the papacy was to "think to change times and laws." Daniel 7:25. This work it was not slow to attempt. To afford converts from heathenism a substitute for the worship of idols, and thus to promote their nominal acceptance of Christianity, the adoration of images and relics was gradually introduced into the Christian worship. The decree of a general council finally established this system of idolatry. To complete the sacrilegious work, Rome presumed to expunge from the law of God the second commandment, forbidding image worship, and to divide the tenth commandment, in order to preserve the number.
The spirit of concession to paganism opened the way for a still further disregard of Heaven's authority. Satan, working through unconsecrated leaders of the church, tampered with the fourth commandment also, and essayed to set aside the ancient Sabbath, the day which God had blessed and sanctified (Genesis 2:2, 3), and in its stead to exalt the festival observed by the heathen as "the venerable day of the sun."

I think it's significant to note from your own reference

Daniel 7:25 He will speak against the Most Highg and oppress his holy peopleh and try to change the set timesi and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time

the bolded and underlined ihas these same scripture that I am now posting as the scriptural cross-reference. My emphasis is on challenging what your post claims as changing the Holy days. Your saying it's the anti-christ TRYING to change the days but the cross-reference says the Lord has changed times and seasons.

Dan 2:20-22
20 Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever; For wisdom and might are his.
21 And it is He that changeth times and seasons; He deposeth kings, and setteth up kings; He giveth wisdom to the wise, And knowledge to them that know understanding.
22 It is he that revealeth the deep and secret things; He knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him.

Mark 1:15
and saying, The time is fulfilled and the kingdom of God has drawn nigh; repent and believe in the glad tidings.

Luke 21:8
And he said, See that ye be not led astray, for many shall come in my name, saying, *I* am [he], and the time is drawn nigh: go ye not [therefore] after them.

Acts 1:6-7
They therefore, being come together, asked him saying, Lord, is it at this time that thou restorest the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said to them, It is not yours to know times or seasons, which the Father has placed in his own authority;​

But besides your cross-references there are more reasons to believer that it is in fact God who changed the day of worship to Sunday, It's the first day of the week that the Lord resurrected from the dead and signifies a new beginning and a new age

Leviticus 23:10-11
10 Speak unto the children of Israel and say unto them, When ye come into the land that I give unto you, and ye reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the first-fruits of your harvest unto the priest.
11 And he shall wave the sheaf before Jehovah, to be accepted for you; on the next day after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.
15 And ye shall count from the morning after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave-offering, seven weeks; they shall be complete;​

Christ is the firstfruit of the resurrection

1 Corinthians 15:20
(But now Christ is raised from among [the] dead, first-fruits of those fallen asleep.
23 But each in his own rank: [the] first-fruits, Christ; then those that are the Christ's at his coming.​

Therefore this is the day that Jehovah has made; Let us exult and rejoice in it, because today God has begotten Him

Acts 13:33
That God has fully fulfilled this promise to us their children in raising up Jesus, as it is also written in the second Psalm, a"You are My Son; this day have I begotten You.''​

So we give Him first place in everything, even over creation because He has brought in the new creation.

Colossians 1:18
18 And He is the Head of the bBody, the church; He is the beginning, the Firstborn from the dead, that He Himself might have the first place in all things;​

And why we call it the Lord's day rather than the Sabbath

Revelation 1:10
I was in spirit on the Lord's Day and heard behind me a loud voice like a btrumpet,​

Because He is our rest

Matthew 11:28-29
Come to Me all who toil and are burdened, and I will give you rest.
Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am meek and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.​

 

[Alithis]

Isn't Wednesday the only day not named after a heathen god?

nope -its named after odin's day . the nordic gods and origin of ash odin's day adopted later by others to become ash wednesday which has no biblical origin at all.

 

[ThreeAngels]

Concerning the law of Ten Commandments the psalmist declares, “Forever, O Lord, Thy word is settled in heaven.” Psalm 119:89. And Christ Himself says, “Think not that I am come to destroy the law. . . . Verily I say unto you”— making the assertion as emphatic as possible— “Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.” Matthew 5:17, 18. Here He teaches, not merely what the claims of God’s law had been, and were then, but that these claims should hold as long as the heavens and the earth remain. The law of God is as immutable as His throne.
God Himself could not change His law, for it is so perfect, and good, and holy- the product of infinite love and wisdom. If He could redeem us by changing His law, He need not send His son to suffer and die an agonizing death. Jesus had come to “magnify the law, and make it honorable.” Isaiah 42:21. How much less, then, can man change God's law? Paul styled the papacy the “man of sin,” who was to exalt himself above God. Only by changing God’s law could the papacy exalt itself above God

 

[MoreCoffee]

Concerning the law of Ten Commandments the psalmist declares, “Forever, O Lord, Thy word is settled in heaven.” Psalm 119:89. And Christ Himself says, “Think not that I am come to destroy the law. . . . Verily I say unto you”— making the assertion as emphatic as possible— “Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.” Matthew 5:17, 18. Here He teaches, not merely what the claims of God’s law had been, and were then, but that these claims should hold as long as the heavens and the earth remain. The law of God is as immutable as His throne.

God Himself could not change His law, for it is so perfect, and good, and holy- the product of infinite love and wisdom. If He could redeem us by changing His law, He need not send His son to suffer and die an agonizing death. Jesus had come to “magnify the law, and make it honorable.” Isaiah 42:21. How much less, then, can man change God's law? Paul styled the papacy the “man of sin,” who was to exalt himself above God. Only by changing God’s law could the papacy exalt itself above God

I am curious to know why Seventh Day Adventism gives so much emphasis to the seventh day and to the second advent, would you explain why those two things pivotal to the religion?

 

[ThreeAngels]

I'll try to explain. The SDA mission is to proclaim the 3 angels message of 14:6-11. These messages are given at the end of the world, and just prior to Christ's second advent. Satan has got the great majority of the professed Christian world trampling on the 4th law. The definition of sin is 'the transgression of the law.' 1John 3:4 so Satan has had marvelous success is in this direction. It would be more consistent to disregard all the 10 rather than keep 9 out of 10.
The fourth commandment is the only one of all the ten in which are found both the name and the title of the Lawgiver. It is the only one that shows by whose authority the law is given. Thus it contains the seal of God, affixed to His law as evidence of its authenticity and binding force.
When the crisis of the mark of the beast comes, the Sabbath will be the great test of loyalty, for it is the point of truth especially controverted. When the final test shall be brought to bear upon men, then the line of distinction will be drawn between those who serve God and those who serve Him not. While the observance of the false sabbath in compliance with the law of the state, contrary to the fourth commandment, will be an avowal of allegiance to a power that is in opposition to God, the keeping of the true Sabbath, in obedience to God's law, is an evidence of loyalty to the Creator. While one class, by accepting the sign of submission to earthly powers, receive the mark of the beast, the other choosing the token of allegiance to divine authority, receive the seal of God.

 

[Cassia]

Concerning the law of Ten Commandments the psalmist declares, “Forever, O Lord, Thy word is settled in heaven.” Psalm 119:89. And Christ Himself says, “Think not that I am come to destroy the law. . . . Verily I say unto you”— making the assertion as emphatic as possible— “Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.” Matthew 5:17, 18. Here He teaches, not merely what the claims of God’s law had been, and were then, but that these claims should hold as long as the heavens and the earth remain. The law of God is as immutable as His throne.
God Himself could not change His law, for it is so perfect, and good, and holy- the product of infinite love and wisdom. If He could redeem us by changing His law, He need not send His son to suffer and die an agonizing death. Jesus had come to “magnify the law, and make it honorable.” Isaiah 42:21. How much less, then, can man change God's law? Paul styled the papacy the “man of sin,” who was to exalt himself above God. Only by changing God’s law could the papacy exalt itself above God

All on a day's work for Jesus who said " You have heard that it is written but I say"

 

[MoreCoffee]

I'll try to explain. The SDA mission is to proclaim the 3 angels message of 14:6-11. These messages are given at the end of the world, and just prior to Christ's second advent. Satan has got the great majority of the professed Christian world trampling on the 4th law. The definition of sin is 'the transgression of the law.' 1John 3:4 so Satan has had marvelous success is in this direction. It would be more consistent to disregard all the 10 rather than keep 9 out of 10.
The fourth commandment is the only one of all the ten in which are found both the name and the title of the Lawgiver. It is the only one that shows by whose authority the law is given. Thus it contains the seal of God, affixed to His law as evidence of its authenticity and binding force.

The fourth commandment says: Exodus 20:12 Honour your father and your mother so that you may live long in the land that Jehovah your God is giving you.

When the crisis of the mark of the beast comes, the Sabbath will be the great test of loyalty, for it is the point of truth especially controverted. When the final test shall be brought to bear upon men, then the line of distinction will be drawn between those who serve God and those who serve Him not. While the observance of the false sabbath in compliance with the law of the state, contrary to the fourth commandment, will be an avowal of allegiance to a power that is in opposition to God, the keeping of the true Sabbath, in obedience to God's law, is an evidence of loyalty to the Creator. While one class, by accepting the sign of submission to earthly powers, receive the mark of the beast, the other choosing the token of allegiance to divine authority, receive the seal of God.

 

[ThreeAngels]

All on a day's work for Jesus who said " You have heard that it is written but I say"

When He said those words, He was explaining the extent of God's claims upon the people whose minds were darkened by traditions and misinterpretations.
The words of God, which are also the words of Jesus can never pass away. He has said, 'Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.' 'The truth of the Lord endureth forever', 'Thy word is truth' Matthew 24:35, Psalms 117:2, John 17:17

 

[Cassia]

I think it's significant to note from your own reference the bolded and underlined ihas these same scripture that I am now posting as the scriptural cross-reference. My emphasis is on challenging what your post claims as changing the Holy days. Your saying it's the anti-christ TRYING to change the days but the cross-reference says the Lord has changed times and seasons.

Dan 2:20-22
20 Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever; For wisdom and might are his.
21 And it is He that changeth times and seasons; He deposeth kings, and setteth up kings; He giveth wisdom to the wise, And knowledge to them that know understanding.
22 It is he that revealeth the deep and secret things; He knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him.

Mark 1:15
and saying, The time is fulfilled and the kingdom of God has drawn nigh; repent and believe in the glad tidings.

Luke 21:8
And he said, See that ye be not led astray, for many shall come in my name, saying, *I* am [he], and the time is drawn nigh: go ye not [therefore] after them.

Acts 1:6-7
They therefore, being come together, asked him saying, Lord, is it at this time that thou restorest the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said to them, It is not yours to know times or seasons, which the Father has placed in his own authority;​

But besides your cross-references there are more reasons to believer that it is in fact God who changed the day of worship to Sunday, It's the first day of the week that the Lord resurrected from the dead and signifies a new beginning and a new age

Leviticus 23:10-11
10 Speak unto the children of Israel and say unto them, When ye come into the land that I give unto you, and ye reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the first-fruits of your harvest unto the priest.
11 And he shall wave the sheaf before Jehovah, to be accepted for you; on the next day after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.
15 And ye shall count from the morning after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave-offering, seven weeks; they shall be complete;​

Christ is the firstfruit of the resurrection

1 Corinthians 15:20
(But now Christ is raised from among [the] dead, first-fruits of those fallen asleep.
23 But each in his own rank: [the] first-fruits, Christ; then those that are the Christ's at his coming.​

Therefore this is the day that Jehovah has made; Let us exult and rejoice in it, because today God has begotten Him

Acts 13:33
That God has fully fulfilled this promise to us their children in raising up Jesus, as it is also written in the second Psalm, a"You are My Son; this day have I begotten You.''​

So we give Him first place in everything, even over creation because He has brought in the new creation.

Colossians 1:18
18 And He is the Head of the bBody, the church; He is the beginning, the Firstborn from the dead, that He Himself might have the first place in all things;​

And why we call it the Lord's day rather than the Sabbath

Revelation 1:10
I was in spirit on the Lord's Day and heard behind me a loud voice like a btrumpet,​

Because He is our rest

Matthew 11:28-29
Come to Me all who toil and are burdened, and I will give you rest.
Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am meek and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.​

[MENTION=272]ThreeAngels[/MENTION] perhaps you should respond to the post that refutes your claims

 

[ThreeAngels]

[MENTION=262]Cassia[/MENTION] I'll begin with Daniel, when he said, "And it is He that changeth times and seasons," that's clearly different than changing times and laws* and he's also clearly referring to a different entity who shall *think to change times and *laws. The prophecy does not say that God shall *think and also nowhere does it say anything about God changing *laws.
The quote on Mark shows a fulfillment of scripture, (Daniel's time prophecy) when Jesus began His public mission, again nothing there about changing times and laws (which refers to the 4th commandment as it is the only commandment which has time).
As for John being in the spirit in the Lord's day, he received the revelation on the true Lord's day, the Sabbath. Jesus created all things, including the Sabbath, and that is why He is, 'Lord of the Sabbath' Luke 6:5
As for the quote from Luke and the Acts, down in order above, there's nothing to do with changing times and laws.
I agree with you that Christ is the first fruits. Christ left us a rite to commemorate His resurrection, and that is baptism where we are buried with Him in water and arise in newness of life. He has nowhere said that the first day of the week is to commemorate that.
We don't call God's Sabbath the Lord's day because Jesus changed it but because the pope of Rome assayed to do so. "Roman Catholics acknowledge that the change of the Sabbath was made by their church, and
declare that Protestants by observing the Sunday are recognizing her power. In the Catholic Catechism of Christian Religion, in answer to a question as to the day to be observed in obedience to the fourth commandment, this statement is made: "During the old law, Saturday was the day sanctified; but the church, instructed by Jesus Christ, and directed by the Spirit of God, has substituted Sunday for Saturday; so now we sanctify the first, not the seventh day. Sunday means, and now is, the day of the Lord." Ellen White Great Controversy 448. (I could give many other sources on this too.)
The apostles and early believers kept the Sabbath. Here's just 2 instances. Jesus said to His followers concerning the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, "But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day" Luke 24:20 This event occurred 40 years after the words of Jesus and during that time it was still held sacred. They were to pray that their flight might not be on the Sabbath day.
At Antioch Paul preached on the Sabbath, and when asked by the Gentiles to preach the same sermon again, he did not suggest a meeting on Sunday, but waited till "the next Sabbath day." (Acts 13:14,42,44) He knew of no other weekly rest day than the Sabbath, for he worked at his trade as tent maker during the "six working days " (Ezekiel 46: 1), but " he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks " (Acts 18: 1-4).When he came where there were no Jewish synagogues, he did not stay in the hustling, bustling, heathen city on God's holy day, but the record says: "And on the Sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made." Acts 16: 12, 13." Christian Edwardson, Facts of Faith.
Keep searching for the truth that you may obey it

 

[Cassia]

[MENTION=262]Cassia[/MENTION] I'll begin with Daniel, when he said, "And it is He that changeth times and seasons," that's clearly different than changing times and laws* and he's also clearly referring to a different entity who shall *think to change times and *laws. The prophecy does not say that God shall *think and also nowhere does it say anything about God changing *laws.
The quote on Mark shows a fulfillment of scripture, (Daniel's time prophecy) when Jesus began His public mission, again nothing there about changing times and laws (which refers to the 4th commandment as it is the only commandment which has time).
As for John being in the spirit in the Lord's day, he received the revelation on the true Lord's day, the Sabbath. Jesus created all things, including the Sabbath, and that is why He is, 'Lord of the Sabbath' Luke 6:5
As for the quote from Luke and the Acts, down in order above, there's nothing to do with changing times and laws.
I agree with you that Christ is the first fruits. Christ left us a rite to commemorate His resurrection, and that is baptism where we are buried with Him in water and arise in newness of life. He has nowhere said that the first day of the week is to commemorate that.
We don't call God's Sabbath the Lord's day because Jesus changed it but because the pope of Rome assayed to do so. "Roman Catholics acknowledge that the change of the Sabbath was made by their church, and
declare that Protestants by observing the Sunday are recognizing her power. In the Catholic Catechism of Christian Religion, in answer to a question as to the day to be observed in obedience to the fourth commandment, this statement is made: "During the old law, Saturday was the day sanctified; but the church, instructed by Jesus Christ, and directed by the Spirit of God, has substituted Sunday for Saturday; so now we sanctify the first, not the seventh day. Sunday means, and now is, the day of the Lord." Ellen White Great Controversy 448. (I could give many other sources on this too.)
The apostles and early believers kept the Sabbath. Here's just 2 instances. Jesus said to His followers concerning the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, "But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day" Luke 24:20 This event occurred 40 years after the words of Jesus and during that time it was still held sacred. They were to pray that their flight might not be on the Sabbath day.
At Antioch Paul preached on the Sabbath, and when asked by the Gentiles to preach the same sermon again, he did not suggest a meeting on Sunday, but waited till "the next Sabbath day." (Acts 13:14,42,44) He knew of no other weekly rest day than the Sabbath, for he worked at his trade as tent maker during the "six working days " (Ezekiel 46: 1), but " he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks " (Acts 18: 1-4).When he came where there were no Jewish synagogues, he did not stay in the hustling, bustling, heathen city on God's holy day, but the record says: "And on the Sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made." Acts 16: 12, 13." Christian Edwardson, Facts of Faith.
Keep searching for the truth that you may obey it

Changing times we know He does. Your argument is against changing law, in particular 'Keep the Sabbath'

WHO is the rest? Not any other Name but Jesus. Failure to adhere to Christianity is turning back to Judaism.

 

[psalms 91]

The Sabbeth was established by God and is His not Jewish. Nowhere does iot give us the right to change Gods day

 

[ThreeAngels]

Changing times we know He does. Your argument is against changing law, in particular 'Keep the Sabbath'

WHO is the rest? Not any other Name but Jesus. Failure to adhere to Christianity is turning back to Judaism.

God rested, blessed, and sanctified the seventh day (see Gen 2:2,3) when there were only Adam and Eve. It was given to all of humanity.
Adam and Eve were Christians, as were Noah, Abraham and the patriarchs, and Moses. The gospel did not begin at Christ's first advent, it had already been given to Adam when he was told the woman's Seed should crush the serpent's head.

 

[Lamb]

My friend Stravinsk once wrote on this site that because of the changes in calendars and even clock settins, how do you even know you're truly worshiping on the correct day if you're so bound in wanting to stick to a certain day? Do you get his point?

 

[visionary]

Changing times we know He does. Your argument is against changing law, in particular 'Keep the Sabbath'

WHO is the rest? Not any other Name but Jesus. Failure to adhere to Christianity is turning back to Judaism.

You make it sound like Yeshua dis-associated with His faith He created on Mount Sinai. Turning back to the faith of Yeshua and living it the way He wanted it lived out is not a "turning back" but a return to Him who created it.