The GOAL

[Michael]

What is the Goal of our walk with Christ?

Is it heaven? The Kingdom of God?

Or something else?

What does the Scripture define as the GOAL?

https://youtu.be/-a-7UJkPhSE

 

[zecryphon_nomdiv]

What is the Goal of our walk with Christ?

Is it heaven? The Kingdom of God?

Or something else?

What does the Scripture define as the GOAL?

https://youtu.be/-a-7UJkPhSE

There is no goal to be achieved by us. The Christian faith is not about us or what we do. It's about Christ and what He has done for us. His work. Not ours.

 

[Lamb]

There is no goal to be achieved by us. The Christian faith is not about us or what we do. It's about Christ and what He has done for us. His work. Not ours.

Exactly!

If we have any such goal it's to be faithful to God and even then we can't rely on ourselves to do that and trust that God will keep us close to Him which He promises to do. We cannot earn our way to heaven by anything we do.

 

[Michael]

There is no goal to be achieved by us. The Christian faith is not about us or what we do. It's about Christ and what He has done for us. His work. Not ours.

Interesting point of view. I'm curious why the Apostle Paul taught the opposite... did he not know?

Why, rather than just rest in what Christ Jesus did, strain myself and press in "that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; 10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, 11 if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. 13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, 14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind." - Phil 3:9-15

I'm being facetious of course here. We truly need to move past our humanistic understanding and acceptance of "smooth sayings" and "ear tickling" messages and "press in", and "labor to enter the rest of God."

Let as many as are mature, realize that there is a GOAL which we must strive after and walk worthy of if we are to attain it; lest we become comfortable and lazy believing that Jesus did it all.

"Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. 25 And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. 26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. 27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified." - 1Cor 9:24-27

And of course we all know the Apostle Peter's teaching to the saints, the very Elect, that they must DO something to assure their entrance into the Kingdom.

"But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ." - 2Pet 1:5-11

Lord, we truly need a "back-to-the-Bible Revival in our churches today.

Peace & Blessings to all who walk with Jesus.

 

[zecryphon_nomdiv]

Interesting point of view. I'm curious why the Apostle Paul taught the opposite... did he not know?

Why, rather than just rest in what Christ Jesus did, strain myself and press in "that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; 10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, 11 if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. 13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, 14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind." - Phil 3:9-15

I'm being facetious of course here. We truly need to move past our humanistic understanding and acceptance of "smooth sayings" and "ear tickling" messages and "press in", and "labor to enter the rest of God."

Let as many as are mature, realize that there is a GOAL which we must strive after and walk worthy of if we are to attain it; lest we become comfortable and lazy believing that Jesus did it all.

"Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. 25 And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. 26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. 27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified." - 1Cor 9:24-27

And of course we all know the Apostle Peter's teaching to the saints, the very Elect, that they must DO something to assure their entrance into the Kingdom.

"But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ." - 2Pet 1:5-11

Lord, we truly need a "back-to-the-Bible Revival in our churches today.

Peace & Blessings to all who walk with Jesus.

The absolute last thing we need is another revival period in Christianity. Didn't Charles Finney do enough damage? What really sucks for you is that Ephesians 2:1-9 makes it absolutely clear that we do nothing and there is nothing we can do to save ourselves or justify ourselves in the eyes of God the Father. If there was a goal to be obtained in the Christian faith, I would say that it was to reconcile God the Father to us sinners, which Christ already did with His birth, life, death and resurrection.

 

[Lamb]

God doesn't need our works but our neighbors do. That's a huge reason for a Christian to lead a godly life, doing the works the Holy Spirit has planned for us.

 

[Michael]

The absolute last thing we need is another revival period in Christianity. Didn't Charles Finney do enough damage? What really sucks for you is that Ephesians 2:1-9 makes it absolutely clear that we do nothing and there is nothing we can do to save ourselves or justify ourselves in the eyes of God the Father. If there was a goal to be obtained in the Christian faith, I would say that it was to reconcile God the Father to us sinners, which Christ already did with His birth, life, death and resurrection.

Nothing more to say to you on this, friend. You have your calling, and I have mine. Those that God has called to the First Resurrection - who will "sit with Christ on His Throne" ruling over the sheep of the nations raised in the Second Resurrection (such as all the 'sinners saved by grace' who didn't press in to overcome) - must as Jesus & Paul & Peter & James & John & Jude & the writer of Hebrews clearly taught, "attain" to that calling and "make their election sure" by their behavior and obedience. To rely solely 'upon what Jesus has done' will render us a "wicked, lazy servant" who wasted their talents; and their end is "outer darkness." These are not my words, but the very Word and Truth of our Lord and Savior.
It is truly time for the veil to be lifted, time for the promised revival. For the great bulk of the church is walking in deception.

Being "saved" is only the beginning, and an opportunity, it is not the end.
And heaven is not the goal either, for El Shaddai is coming to dwell among men on the earth; and He will dwell IN Christ (Head and Body).
I know this Truth isn't taught in most churches around the globe, but it is Bible and the goal set before us.
There is no fruit in arguing or trying to prove a point. I understand very well your position, it's just that I've moved way past that as God has "opened my eyes to understand the Scripture" and I cannot settle for anything less. That is His call upon me.
Peace & Blessings to you as you walk with Jesus. May you fulfill His desire for your life.

 

[Lamb]

Nothing more to say to you on this, friend. You have your calling, and I have mine. Those that God has called to the First Resurrection - who will "sit with Christ on His Throne" ruling over the sheep of the nations raised in the Second Resurrection (such as all the 'sinners saved by grace' who didn't press in to overcome) - must as Jesus & Paul & Peter & James & John & Jude & the writer of Hebrews clearly taught, "attain" to that calling and "make their election sure" by their behavior and obedience. To rely solely 'upon what Jesus has done' will render us a "wicked, lazy servant" who wasted their talents; and their end is "outer darkness." These are not my words, but the very Word and Truth of our Lord and Savior.
It is truly time for the veil to be lifted, time for the promised revival. For the great bulk of the church is walking in deception.

Being "saved" is only the beginning, and an opportunity, it is not the end.
And heaven is not the goal either, for El Shaddai is coming to dwell among men on the earth; and He will dwell IN Christ (Head and Body).
I know this Truth isn't taught in most churches around the globe, but it is Bible and the goal set before us.
There is no fruit in arguing or trying to prove a point. I understand very well your position, it's just that I've moved way past that as God has "opened my eyes to understand the Scripture" and I cannot settle for anything less. That is His call upon me.
Peace & Blessings to you as you walk with Jesus. May you fulfill His desire for your life.

Zec is a Christian so please don't imply otherwise.

Didn't Jesus do enough to ensure your salvation?

 

[zecryphon_nomdiv]

Zec is a Christian so please don't imply otherwise.

Didn't Jesus do enough to ensure your salvation?

Apparently not. We see this with the Semi-Pelagians and people who love to cater to the old Adamic nature. As you and I both know, Christ did everything, we do nothing.

This guy won't even say what the goal is that we are to attain or how we are to attain it. God's standard is perfection. So whatever "the goal" is, this guy can never have any assurance that he has achieved it.

Some questions he needs to think about are:

Did I do all the works?
Did I do them perfectly?
Am I sure?
How can I be sure my works were perfect and pleasing to God?

Who wants to live always hoping you've done enough to please God?

The fact that he admits this is not taught in most churches means he has gone rogue and is trying to spread false doctrine here. If he understood what he was reading in Phillipians 3, he would see that Paul is always pointing to Christ, not himself or works. But he edited out the passages that provide the proper context for his quote.

I mention Ephesians 2:1-9 and he wants to stop talking? That says it all. He ignores Scriptures he can't twist to support his anti-Christian beliefs.

 

[zecryphon_nomdiv]

Nothing more to say to you on this, friend. You have your calling, and I have mine. Those that God has called to the First Resurrection - who will "sit with Christ on His Throne" ruling over the sheep of the nations raised in the Second Resurrection (such as all the 'sinners saved by grace' who didn't press in to overcome) - must as Jesus & Paul & Peter & James & John & Jude & the writer of Hebrews clearly taught, "attain" to that calling and "make their election sure" by their behavior and obedience. To rely solely 'upon what Jesus has done' will render us a "wicked, lazy servant" who wasted their talents; and their end is "outer darkness." These are not my words, but the very Word and Truth of our Lord and Savior.
It is truly time for the veil to be lifted, time for the promised revival. For the great bulk of the church is walking in deception.

Being "saved" is only the beginning, and an opportunity, it is not the end.
And heaven is not the goal either, for El Shaddai is coming to dwell among men on the earth; and He will dwell IN Christ (Head and Body).
I know this Truth isn't taught in most churches around the globe, but it is Bible and the goal set before us.
There is no fruit in arguing or trying to prove a point. I understand very well your position, it's just that I've moved way past that as God has "opened my eyes to understand the Scripture" and I cannot settle for anything less. That is His call upon me.
Peace & Blessings to you as you walk with Jesus. May you fulfill His desire for your life.

Who is arguing? I referenced Ephesians 2:1-9 and suddenly you want to stop talking. Why is that? Do you realize that Ephesians 2, causes a problem for your theology?

 

[Lamb]

Here's another thing I like to ask... How much did Jesus have to do and what's the percentage you have to do before God will save you?

 

[Lamb]

2 Corinthians 12:9 “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.”

 

[Michael]

Here's another thing I like to ask... How much did Jesus have to do and what's the percentage you have to do before God will save you?

I am saved! Jesus did 100% and I did 0
But it is the BEGINNING of our journey towards the promises of God, not the end.
God slew most of those He "saved" in the Exodus, and they did not inherit what God swore to give them. Only those who proved themselves - Joshua & Caleb - entered in from the original group who were saved.
Paul says the exact same thing is true for us. If we do not "work out our own salvation with fear & trembling" (fear of judgment for our sin, not fear of accepting God's grace) then we will NOT inherit the promises. Period. The entire New Testament confirms this clearly.
May Jesus "open our minds to understand the Scripture."

 

[zecryphon_nomdiv]

I am saved! Jesus did 100% and I did 0
But it is the BEGINNING of our journey towards the promises of God, not the end.
God slew most of those He "saved" in the Exodus, and they did not inherit what God swore to give them. Only those who proved themselves - Joshua & Caleb - entered in from the original group who were saved.
Paul says the exact same thing is true for us. If we do not "work out our own salvation with fear & trembling" (fear of judgment for our sin, not fear of accepting God's grace) then we will NOT inherit the promises. Period. The entire New Testament confirms this clearly.
May Jesus "open our minds to understand the Scripture."

May you find qualified teachers to teach you and a good church so you may hear the Word properly taught and receive the Sacraments properly administered. The reason most of the people in the Exodus didn't inherit what God promised them is because they turned their back on God and didn't trust God or His promises. See Deuteronomy 1.

Their punishment for not trusting God was that they would not inherit or enter into the promised land. The promised land wasn't a goal set before them that they had to achieve. They had to do what you say we are not to do, rest in God. Had the people of the exodus done that, had they trusted God and not turned away, they too would have entered the promised land.

 

[Lamb]

I am saved! Jesus did 100% and I did 0

Then stop insisting that man needs to do his part after that or God will strike him down. That's not biblical.

 

[Michael]

Then stop insisting that man needs to do his part after that or God will strike him down. That's not biblical.

Oh sister, again... we're not talking about "salvation" here, we're talking about inheriting the promises of God to the overcoming saints. They are not the same thing at all.
Being "saved" doesn't guarantee us of anything other than now having an opportunity to follow Jesus and be set free from sin as we walk according to the Spirit. And this is absolutely Biblical.
No verse of Scripture tells us that being "saved" means we go to heaven when we die. Heaven is not the goal. And entrance into the Kingdom, either as a ruler with Christ or as one of the sheep of the nations who will be their inheritance, is based, as we've seen numerous times, on what we did in this life.
I won't continue this debate, as the bulk of Scripture backs me up 100%. It is up to us to choose to obey God and His Word, or accept the traditions of man.
And please, I am in no way diminishing your salvation. I'm sure you love Jesus and want to please Him in all you do. It's just that for me, personally, God has moved me (and many others I know) past the pre-elementary principles of God and we are pressing in, as did the Apostles, to the "rest of God" (which is not relaxation, but becoming united with Christ in His death and Resurrection and full obedience to the Father.)

Peace & Blessings to you.

 

[zecryphon_nomdiv]

You can't achieve full obedience to God the Father, because everything you do is tainted by sin, even your "good deeds." Every Christian has two natures, the sinful nature and the new nature in Christ. But you keep thinking you're miles above us, theologically. That seems really important to you.

 

[Michael]

You can't achieve full obedience to God the Father, because everything you do is tainted by sin, even your "good deeds." Every Christian has two natures, the sinful nature and the new nature in Christ. But you keep thinking you're miles above us, theologically. That seems really important to you.

No, Not important to me personally at all. It's important to God and to Jesus. That is why the Apostles wrote so many letters exhorting the saints to press in and not shrink back unto destruction.
Yes, you are correct, we have two natures at this point. But as John said, "I must decrease that He may increase." We have to put the deeds of our old nature to death, or we will choke out the Life in us that Christ came to bring.
I'm only stating Bible in the things I share. And I am up against much tradition that has crept in over the centuries. May we "return to the ancient paths."
Peace & Blessings as you walk with Jesus.

 

[MennoSota]

Galatians 3:1-18,25-29 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”? Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith. For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith. To give a human example, brothers:even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ. This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.

 

[Lamb]

No, Not important to me personally at all. It's important to God and to Jesus. That is why the Apostles wrote so many letters exhorting the saints to press in and not shrink back unto destruction.
Yes, you are correct, we have two natures at this point. But as John said, "I must decrease that He may increase." We have to put the deeds of our old nature to death, or we will choke out the Life in us that Christ came to bring.
I'm only stating Bible in the things I share. And I am up against much tradition that has crept in over the centuries. May we "return to the ancient paths."
Peace & Blessings as you walk with Jesus.

Do you feel you need to make yourself worthy before God before he'll consider keeping you around for eternal life????? What about Jesus? Why is your theology so rejecting of the man who died for you?